Open letter to Tom Naughton
You've been punked. Oh .... and your version of Krusegate contains a blatant lie, not to mention that you put the smears out long past when the facts of his lies were out.
Of course my comment went directly to your trash. I on the other hand have the balls you so clearly lack to discuss things here. You can comment, really. I'm not afraid of you, but you apparently are of me for some reason.... Shall we speculate as to why?? LOL
Comments
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/09/05/interviewed-on-the-lew-rockwell-show/#comments
CarbSanity says:
September 12, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Jimmy’s a tool and you’re not much better. This kind of devaluing – and co-opting – of the ‘paleo’ name is why people like Dr. Kurt Harris want nothing to do with it now.
Like I said, go get the professional help you so obviously need. Anyone who is so obsessed with me and Jimmy as to continue finding ways around being blocked just to leave yet another dumb-ass comment nobody who reads this blog will take seriously isn’t mentally balanced. I don’t expect you to grasp that, of course, because mentally unbalanced types never believe they’re mentally unbalanced. It’s everyone else who is the problem, ya see. Stalkers never look in the mirror and say “Holy crap, I’m a stalker!” They’re always 100% convinced the stalking is justified and they’re the ones being wronged.
You’re a stalker. You’re not well. You have issues, big ones. Go see a shrink.
To each their own "troll" (but imagine the one who consecutively is "stalkin" Razwell - not a picnic for sure!
Mine was a simple question of what happened, and why.
Just as I had no idea about JM's wife weight, it's not like everyone knows every detail of all the Paleo&co. community drama. It's mostly insider stuff.
I didn't censor anything.
Sometimes Blogger is dicey -- they have a spam filter that is utterly useless to totally counterproductive. I have no control. I checked spam and all of your comments have been published as I do not have moderation on.
I'll be responding later as I'm getting ready to have dinner soon.
I laud his attention to the nutrition debate, but he and his brother's Lib'trn schtick is getting old.
above this I believe that private resources like time, interest, sympathy, etc can be spent in whatever "club" one wishes.
I don't get Melissa's point - she complains that Naughton is in a oldboys' club that excludes woman? so what should be the ideal solution - convince or force them to include you?
Would you be happy about this?
And probably they form their club (if there is any, I am not familiar with the details of their lives) because they had been excluded by women in the first place. If they could join a 'bikini club' or at least 'merry widows' club they wouldn't have to find consolation in their grim oldboy's club
"belief in a free market ideology was also predictive of rejection of the scientifically demonstrated link between tobacco and lung cancer and between HIV and AIDS." - More data on why people reject science
This person is a troll -- and although he doesn't troll this blog under these monikers -- is more insidious to me than even Razwell. This individual tries to incite discord between bloggers by creating conflicts that don't exist. He parrots many of my descriptions, and of course my name, trying to stir up trouble. Sometimes he posts seemingly supportive comments as regards me, other times the polar opposite.
Not speaking for Melissa, just for myself based on my past experience with the LC boys club (Taubes, Naughton, Eades, a few more at the time), the response to my criticisms of Taubes science was to try to paint me as a stalker. Tom called me mentally unstable for posting a couple of comments on his blog. http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/02/internettiquette-ii-big-fat-head-etc.html
They can't counter the science, so that's what they have to resort to.
he answer
"I’m addressing whoever CarbSanity is. All I know is that it’s someone in New Mexico, based on the various IP addresses. The same nut-job keeps showing up here and on the YouTube channel and finding ways to get around being blocked. That’s stalker behavior."
May be he had an excuse not to post Evelyn's comment because he was called an "Idiot" there.
Of course he could just have not posted the troll comments at all, but that wouldn't suit his purposes.
Funny you mention fraternities, because from early on that's how I described Naughton and Taubes. Maybe it's because I'm only a bit younger than them and spent much of my college socializing time at frat houses, the general mindset was so familiar to me.
(btw who can honestly tell they have ever been up to date with this mess :)
subscribing there is not an act of stalking - it's masochism :)
I don't keep up with Kruse these days, but you need to understand that I receive emails from other people who do on a rather regular basis. This is how I found out about this Naughton stuff -- email alert -- and between reading Paleo Drama, the AHS12 Twitter feed and emails, I'm aware Kruse is back up to his old shenanigans and pointing fingers in his martyrdom. He took down that gymnast post likely because the gymnast was informed of some creative "photography".
Oh ... and Jimmy told a whopper of a lie in his recent update post. But you're not interested in fraud, right?
As I've been discussing with Galina, he had the option of just deleting or not responding to this troll (and that is the more appropriate term, there's a difference between trolling and stalking). He let this through and responded rather than just ignoring for a reason and that's to let his readers use their imaginations that it was me.
There can be little doubt he was trying to jog their memories of his former accusations of stalking. http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/02/internettiquette-ii-big-fat-head-etc.html
but now that I think about it, I guess most of all I am interesting in satisfying my low instincts by watching various fails of gurus - like this crossfit couch - more diversity if I may ask :)
oh yeah - I want more tabloidsy side here, more of your paparazzis around the world.
as for Taubes' theory, maybe it's wrong or incomplete but as long as lifestyle recommendations don't change (and there are known cases of low carb gurus living to 97 y.o.) I don't worry too much.
This is really what I was getting at a while back when I said Paleo is the new vegan. I wasn't referring to the +/- of the diets themselves, rather the ideology. It's always interesting to me how many ex-vegans/veggies there are in paleo ... and those who go back, or end up eventually incorporating the best of both into their lives.
Paleo blasphemers are shown little mercy!
Anywho, take the tongue out of cheek now. I have no desire to turn this blog over to the tabloids, but from time to time such things must be addressed. I hear lots of bold and serious ideas being bantered about, but these can ultimately only be dragged down by forces like a Jimmy Moore.
Now, if you spot errors in Taubes' theory and Lustig's charts, does this change anything in terms of "what should I have for dinner?" I don't believe so. But of course I would be interested in your critique on my "diet" so briefly described above :)
Do you give out "positive" hints like "starch should constitute at least 60% of calories"? I haven't noticed, so you like write about what other people wrote but are safe to not write anything that others can analize (not that I am eager to analize something myself :)
So this is my explanation why I like to see this tabloidy posts - I don't believe your analyzing Jimmy's advice will change my course, I am not interested in cornering Taubes, but always like this comical effect when author of diet books or better - exercise god looks fat
The only problem is that thinking that Fat doesn't make you gain weight, no matter what, is an unbelievably ridiculous position (in my opinion). And that clearly hugely damages the credibily of his whole stance.
Usually I am VLC, but, for staying lean, starches might arguably be better than fat.
And everyone can do an easy experiment: drinking one pack of cream, eating 3 pounds of bacon, indulging in cashews (ecc.) every day of a week. I bet you'll gain.
To be fair, I find Stefan's Gwyneth Food Reward theory even more disappointing. Not only I think it's true only to a quite limited extent, it's something I'd expect from a undegrad student of psychology, or sociology, not a PhD in the field. Not clear nor scientific at all.
Either it's another case of "old boys club", or I really don't get why he gets a free pass from Carbsane, Melissa (et al.)
However, simply isn't clear what it means.
What are it's borders? To foggy.
Plus doesn't sound very scientific in general.
But, most importantly it only works to an extent.
Of course without modern frankenfoods, or anyway iperpalatable foods, obesity rates wouldn't be this high. No doubt.
Though I know as a fact that people can get quite fat also on Buckwheat and similars.
Instead, try getting fat on chicken breasts. Good luck.
Protein is the ultimate satiating and not iper palatable food (macronutrient).
(Ok, Glucose is still better than Fructose or sugar.)
That's it (for me).
In any case, even if he were right, I think his "duty" would have been to explain Biochemically why, let's say, most people would tend to eat more calories of butter than olive oil, before being equally satiated.
For other kind of explanations or Pop-Psycology (alike) theories, someone who had got nothing more than a C- at Biology 101 in High School, might have been enough.
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/09/16/letters-from-viewers-3/comment-page-1/#comment-836160
“Big breasts are a sign of a female who lives in a pathway of reduction, low cortisol, low inflammation, and pro-gestation……..men are designed to opt for that because it means the offspring of that coitus is more likely to do well because high progesterone levels lead to superior brain development in humans which correlates with excessive longevity. Progesterone levels are critical for humans.”
Jack Kruse
I don't know.
Not only because these were comments on a blog, in a language that's not my first, and in a field that's not mine, but mostly because I would have a hard time trying to debunk it scientifically anyways (even if I were able too).
Since the Biochemistry explanation* of the whole theory seems scarce, the experimental studies following the above "food reward theory" aren't that heard of, etc.
I can still say it doesn't sound scientific. Can't I?
His manners where regretful, but Taubes, and others, made, in my opionion, good arguments against it (populations that don't eat... etc.).
But you are right: for a huge part in this case my stance is based on anecdotes (/what works for me, what I see "successful" people doing).
Even though, again, I'm partially afraid it couldn't be otherwise.
So I'm skeptical, but might be wrong.
If you'll achieve great body composition on the "food reward diet", regardless of macronutrients ratio, good for you.
I admit I'd be surprised.
*it's not like in nutrition we wouldn't have anyway more than enough theories that on paper look reasonable.
To a certain degree in that field seems you can still, on paper, demonstate something and the opposite of it almost as easily.
Sometimes it gets quite annoying.
@Gianni: To me food reward is the scientific codification of what I believe most people know intuitively.
You may want to stay tuned. Stephan Guyenet is interested in differing macro response in individuals/gene expression/environment and has said as much even in the last few days. The problem between Guyenet and Taubes isn't that Guyenet is pro starch and anti fat it's that Taubes is not being truthful in his reporting in some cases perhaps because he doesn't understand the science he claims to espouse [he's got a BA in journalism which is less science background than I have and I freely admit this is out of my depth in most cases] however some of it is also historically inaccurate ...inexcusable particularly considering his background.
Oh no ... did he prescribe cold exposure to a woman wanting to grow large breasts?
The brain really does trump lots of local biochemistry[0] - this is becoming increasingly clear for example, if you follow recent advances in pain research. I don't understand most of it myself - I'm relying on well known skeptical sources like neurologist Steve Novella.
Like the old idea that lactate is the limiting factor in various types muscle work including endurance - turns out that one limit of the amount of work one can do may be in the brain (not proven but promising) and not in any local muscle biochemistry
Noakes is the biggest proponent of this idea in recent times.
I've been mentioning "executive function" for a long, long time on this blog, here's a recent entry:
http://sweatscience.runnersworld.com/2012/09/marshmallows-obesity-and-red-light-greenlight/
[0] put another way - the brain takes local biochemical information and integrates it differently than the micro analysis suggests
My problem with the food reward theory, is that these modern foods might be made even a bit more hyperpalatable from artificial stuff (flavors etc.), fiber being wiped out etc., but at the end those foods are generally mostly sugar+fat (weird fats too) at the same time. It's simply that. No surprise people overeat them, aren't satiated.
It would be a lot more compelling if they managed to make you overeat egg-whites, and with artificial sweeteners might even be partially possible, who knows, but the flavors and others I'd bet wouldn't be enough. Maybe, maybe, a +10%.
So in that case, at today, I would have some doubts on the power of the brain of trumping. I could easily be wrong, and interested in seeing it.
(Taubes)he's got a BA in journalism
I think he has a BA in Physics and both a master in some sort of engineering and one in journalism.
Plus he has had many years to study more or less full time these subjects.
Probably doesn't put him on par with others, nor does it make his stance on starch correct (at least for weight gain), but just saying.
You may want to stay tuned. Stephan Guyenet is interested in differing macro response in individuals/gene expression/environment and has said as much even in the last few days.
I think it's plausible there might a slight variance among individuals to macro responses. Let's say rice between an asian guy and a scandinavian.
But, forgive me and my boring bias, I'm not sure make more than a 10-20% difference.
My guess is that 80% of the result (of success) would still be made from a high-ish protein (at least compared to SAD, or to what many obese people eat), and lower sugar consumption (instead between fat and starch I'll "let you" decide for yourself).
That aside, my point is that "food reward", regardless of macro nutrients, might account for 15% (made-up statistic, of course), if that.
I thought proponent of the theory would beg to differ.
If Guyenet would start incorporating, macro-nutrients in his theories, studies, I'd not see anymore in what his stance differs from plain old others...
The facts do not support Taubes assertions. They just don't. It's true people don't generally sit and compulsively eat unseasoned eggs, but it's also true they don't sit and compulsively eat bananas...both outcomes support food reward. You are pulling these speculative estimates of percentage completely out of thin air while resisting all evidence to the contrary yet will embrace a theory that frankly doesn't work when applied to the actual manner in which real glucose/insulin biologically reacts in real human bodies while measured under clinical laboratory conditions rather than anecdotes from snake oil salesman.
Regardless neither of these addresses his unprofessional journalistic dishonesty in falsely reporting well documented and easily verifiable historical events. He knows he's selling to believers who are not applying critical scrutiny to his propaganda or even checking to see if his references say what he asserts they say [in fact they do not].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Taubes
Gary Taubes has a degree (BA?) in APPLIED physics from Harvard. Need I remind anyone of what the institution name ultimately means. There's no indication he excelled ... indeed he has admitted off hand (I'm thinking it was in the CrossFit talk) that he was a mediocre student. He has an MS in aerospace engineering and then a journalism degree.
I am willing to bet that Gary Taubes has never even designed and conducted a single simple scientific experiment. Labs in academia don't count, unless you think baking a Betty Crocker mix cake counts as being a trained baker.
Being a research scientist, and taking a class or two in science are wholly different animals.
Physics is a hard science. Engineering is not science, especially not a "soft" science such as chemistry or biology. It's quite different and I'm well aware of the differences because I spent my 20's and half of my 30's working in both worlds and being educated in both realms.
Gianni, Taubes never studied anything. He didn't even read one of the more relevant references in GCBC -- Frayn's Metabolic Regulation. He admitted such in a Jan 2011 interview. He has certainly not studied ANYTHING new -- he's mired in Black Age endocrinology of the 60's and 70's, and pre WWII obesity research when most of the current techniques for studying such diligently didn't even exist.
The man is intellectually dishonest. Tom Naughton would call him a liar many times over (as he loves to accuse actual scientists of being all the time) were it not for that he's selling DVD's based on his lies.
Who says so? Gary?
Not that I think getting a degree from Harvard means anything great, I just wonder if anybody has actually checked.
My uncle has a graduate degree from Harvard and isn't up to speed on junior high level blood typing as far as I'm aware. His son has a graduate degree from Cambridge and possibly couldn't identify the process by which his own blood is oxygenated without at least a few wrong guesses. Aren't anecdotes and random degrees from Ivy league colleges fun?
Mine was meant to be simply a reply to someone who wrote that the most scientific studies background Taubes had was a BA in Journalism. I don't think that would depict the reality in a correct way.
But clearly I wasn't implying anything more than that (c'mon, I also wrote, rhetorically, "probably doesn't put him on par with others")
Regarding the religious believer part, I'm admittedly a VLCer (at least most of the time) who always says, even in the comments on this post, he doesn't think starchy food are necessarily worse than fat for weight gain. Instead, for me and many others, might be quite the opposite.
I'm VLC mostly for other reasons.
On Taubes stance, I even wrote :"thinking that Fat doesn't make you gain weight, no matter what, is an unbelievably ridiculous position (in my opinion).
I don't know if it's because he fell too much in love with insulin, that might have huge importance and effects but however he is overrating it, or what else, but whatever...
If all that still makes me look even slightly as a Taubes religious believer, I'm in trouble.
As far as advanced degrees, I'll take a smart amateur any day over a clouded or biased PhD. Most anybody here can learn any of these topics. The main disadvantage that an amateur has is being narrowly focused and therefore missing out on some facet that a broad based education would have filled in. But on a forum like this, others can jump in and so that's not such a disadvantage anyway. An HONEST person says 'thanks, I didn't know that" and corrects themselves. The other kind will ignore it, then make excuses and evasions.
I don't fault Taubes for lack of degrees or research experience, I fault him for being a boob :)
We have seen more than a few self-impressed individuals with PhDs and MDs referring to Taubes as supposedly 'brilliant', which to me means those PhDs and MDs have extremely poor judgment and therefore no credibility.
The Japanese weren't fat, and Taubes never addressed that in his book. calories do matter. Very simple. Yet PhDs couldn't see that.
P.S. I agree with you that it's mostly about fat and sugar.
I wish folks would keep politics out of nutrition science.
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