las

Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Sunday, July 3, 2011

It's Not Personal Jimmy

I've received a number of back channel communications -- most from well meaning friends -- regarding my recent calling out of the low carb community in posts like the "Is LC Morphing into HAES" series.   I've also eavesdropped on several discussions about me (from before my interview with Jimmy on through after that blog post series unveiled) where folks really "don't get me".

At this point I want all of my readers to realize that, yes, there is a personal component to my relationship with, and opinion of, Jimmy Moore.  We had exchanged an email/PM or few regarding discussions on his forum as well as my commenting several times on his menus blog regarding his weight struggles over time since I joined up on his forum a little over two years ago.  This was all before the LC Chief of Police  (Fred Hahn) found my blog entry on glyceroneogenesis that violated the LC Profanity Code.  Where were my three seashells when I needed them?


Jimmy instigated the email exchange with Taubes and was privy (not by my doing but by Gary's) to the whole thing whether or not I would have eventually shared it with my readers.  We'd also exchanged an email or few leading up to and following my interview (conducted Nov. 9, 2010) as well as having some off-air exchange -- again both before and after the phone call interview.   Since the airing of my interview and what transpired next, I've no doubt that there was a coordinated effort amongst Taubes, Moore and later Naughton to try to portray me as some sort of mentally unstable, internet stalker ... using, of course, my then preferred anonymity as a weapon against me.   I'll speculate publicly one day as to why Jimmy came to my blog and solicited my interview.  I'm sure many of you readers have your own ideas and it should make for a fun discussion on a slow day.

So yeah ... at this point, as regards these three, there is a degree of a personal aspect to my feelings.  Perhaps that comes through at times?  Probably impossible that it wouldn't.  I'm human.  I will address this at some point, as I do believe it is instructive for folks to know both where I'm coming from and the other sides of the public personas they are relating to, but it's not tops on my list of priorities.

One thing that is, however, a priority is doing my part to get this cart turned around with respect to the nature and quality of the discussion on matters of obesity, weight loss and the best and most healthful recommendations towards achieving lasting weight loss, preventing obesity in the first place and/or just living a long and happy life.   Whatever, IMO, was somewhat or even largely off track in the mainstream where demonizing dietary fat in general, and saturated fat in particular was concerned, it has been morphed by comparison by the militant "carbs = rat poison" faction of the low carb movement.  I see the recent stridency of ever lower carb consumption -- in the face of absolutely no evidence that this is working any better than low fat -- as a dangerous trend.  There are moderate voices out there, but they are being drowned out, and their own "movements" such as they are are being co-opted by the Big Guy and his LLVLC affiliates -- formal or otherwise.  If you're reading this and thinking "what about me?"  pipe up, will ya?! 

It's not personal to call you out Jimmy Moore.  Anyone who would argue that you are not THE biggest internet LC Weight Loss Success Story Celebrity is probably not paying attention.  Note, Kent Altena, I did not say the *only* one, I said the BIGGEST.  At the risk of sending my reader rkoffler over the edge (grin), I'm going to coin a new acronym here:  WLSSC = Weight Loss Success Story Celeb.   A WLSSC owes their fame to losing a lot of weight and that alone.  Nothing wrong with that.  With shows like The Biggest Loser, the numbers of people who owe their fame to this are ever increasing.  Does anyone remember who the first big WLSSC was?  Perhaps there was one prior, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here folks and give a shout out to the whacky and loveable Richard Simmons.  {Side note:  I find it funny that Simmons called his post-weight loss gym the Anatomy Asylum!}  He still wears those trademark shorts (that we all wore back then) and has maintained his over 100 lb weight loss for ... what ... three decades and then some and going strong?  Sure, like many others I'm sure he's had a little work here and there, but the man is now over 60 and going strong!  

At 5'6-1/2" tall, his 123 lb weight loss from a high weight of 268 lbs (final weight 145 lbs, 46% of body weight) certainly rivals the 180 lbs shed by the 6'3" formally 410 lb Jimmy Moore (final weight 230, 43% of body weight).   I'd have to say that Richard cannot be ignored -- and he certainly does his best not to be -- as a shining example of what ELMM can accomplish.  No doubt he's not the norm, but were Jimmy to have maintained his almost 200 lb low carb weight loss (he doesn't like to remind folks that he was once down to the low 210's), he would not be the norm either.  

But let's just imagine for a moment folks had Richard gained back 1/3rd of his initial losses to be a 186 lb 5'6.5" guy.  And let's suppose he was still out there sporting his shorts ... or in lieu of that tooling around town with a Sweating to the Oldies license plate coaxing passers by of his fitness studio to come one in and join him.  Would you go?  And yet here's this guy Jimmy Moore who is doing just that.  And another thing.  While we can argue over what an ideal physique is, or whether it is even attainable w/o surgical intervention post a certain degree of obesity, or the stupidity of BMI as a sole marker for obesity in an individual,  etc.etc., we know this.  At 230 lbs, Jimmy Moore was never "sensationally skinny" as the subtitle of his first book would have you believe.  Richard, OTOH, may not have a macho physique, but airbrushing and kitch and all that aside, he's no fatty!   Had Simmons gained the weight but gotten control over that to lose it again and then maintain it, well, there's room for extra admiration there.

But this is simply not the case for Jimmy Moore and folks stumbling onto his LLVLC "empire" for the first time in 2011 ought to be made aware of these facts.   Jimmy posts recent pictures, for those who look around, but his avatar?  It's nowhere near what he looks like today.  Don't get me started on the unflattering yet skinny-necked caricature.   Yes, Jimmy is very open and honest -- at times -- with his audience.  He's posted shirtless pictures and other pics of a rather obese man and owned up to the numbers on the scale.  But as in 2009 when I first stumbled upon his menus blog, a reader today will not find mention of his actual weight.  He's taken down that weekly scrolling weigh-ins once again and long gone are daily weigh ins.  He's alluded to "a few pounds" gained.  Muscle of course.  Sorry, but really, get a grip man.  He's full bore about it not being so much about his weight after all, it's about health.  But he's censoring comments for sure.  Mine I know about.  But nobody throws down a challenge to eat beef, eggs and coconut oil  until April 1, to get down to 230 lb, basically stops doing it one month short of the end date and falls far short of goal without at least one of even his ardent admirers pointing it out.  And yet nobody says a thing?  Yeah right.  And the weight reporting has stopped and nobody comments?  Uh huh.  Nuf said.

Now, I can understand Jimmy's desire to rebrand, but the fact remains that he became a WLSSC for losing the weight, and has built his business promoting low carb as the means by which he LOST weight - and ostensibly has kept it off.  Although there are a number of more moderate routes he could take and still preach the low carb Word, Jimmy seems to have decided to go more extreme and rely on excluding, shushing and downright intimidating more moderate or challenging voices out there.  This is cult behavior.  If the "truth" is so on your side, it should withstand the test of criticism.  Cults have various characteristics in common, and one is to hook members with a message that plays to their vulnerabilities -- most specifically a feeling of wanting to belong and be understood.  Check.  Next cults separate members from their outside relationships.  Your doctor is wrong, all those authorities are wrong, your family and friends are wrong because they all just can't see the truth.  But you're smarter than that!  Check check.  Once inside, cults ratchet up the isolation to completely sever ties with the outside world.  Stifle opposing opinion akin to shutting down incoming calls and visitors all the while continuing to reinforce cult dogma preaching to the choir.  LC Cruise lectures anyone?  Triple check.  

Only Jimmy is having a time of it shifting the dogmatic message from "low fat made me fat" and "low carb made me thin" to "it's not about weight, it's about health".  And for good reason.  Those already snagged in the cultish LLVLC web give him a pass, but new recruits are a bit harder to come by.  Jimmy is struggling to work off of his WLSSC but to do so he has to accelerate the cult indoctrination.  That's why no voices like yours truly can be tolerated anymore.  And why I was booted off his forum not for what I said there, but for daring to address a subject here that he, himself, has blogged on.  Really, part of the dust up came from folks who Jimmy blogged on ... I merely passed the names along and cited his work.

And while I'm on that subject, if you've got Before/After pictures out there that have made you a name as a WLSSC getting defensive when someone points out that you look nothing like your pictures is not a personal attack either.    If you feel you still have something to add to the conversation, and feel passionately that LC is your chosen dietary savior, that's great.  Be upfront about it though.  Given how so few are able to maintain weight losses, you are not alone.  There are many many worthwhile blogs out there chronicling continued struggles not to regain/maintain/etc.  Diet Girl never got down to "model thin" and she's also put some weight back.  She's sporting a current pic with the following blurb front and center:  "I'm Shauna Reid, an Aussie writer living in Scotland. I lost 175lb over 5 years, maintained for 3, then let 50lb creep back. Current status: finding my way forward in a mindful, diet-free manner!"    Jimmy, I had so much more respect for you when at least you were reporting on your weight struggles in a straight forward manner on a regular basis.  If only your blog "profiles" reflected this because this has been going on for more than half the years since you lost the weight.  Your readers deserve that truth up front and center, with a current avatar.  

It seems that 2005 was the only year where Jimmy maintained his weight loss.  The only reason I can see for his success at this point in not regaining all the weight, is that instead of going on a sustained Little Debbie binge like he did post his 1999 170 lbs low fat diet weight loss, this time he gains "mysteriously" for a time and then goes on a little (low carb of course) crash diet to undo the damage.  Only each time those diets are followed by regain and a bigger rebound than before.  The man has been fluctuating wildly and going on ever more extreme diets to keep things in check every time.  

Bottom line?  Just Livin la Vida Low Carb is NOT working for Jimmy Moore to control his weight in any sane fashion.   And yet day in and day out he sings the praises of the diet, disses those who don't blindly follow the Gospel according to Taubes, demeans swathes of well meaning, ethical and brilliant researchers and doctors simply because they don't buy into the superiority of LC ("idiots" seems to be his favorite word to call them, and I therefore considered myself placed in good company when he referred to my former pseudonym as an "idiotic moniker").  All the while Jimmy -- ostensibly touting his continued "success" with the diet -- encourages readers every day to start their own positive road to health by eating LLVLC style, still boasting over 180 or over 100 lb weight loss and sporting outdated avatars.

Does this mean Jimmy has not attained some measure of success?  Of course not.  Losing 180 lbs was nothing to sneeze at, and maintaining 2/3rds of it -- however erratically -- is not either.    I think Jimmy could make a transition to a HAES argument with a great WCSSC backdrop if he could only just stabilize his weight.  Even if that means weighing 275lbs.  I've suggested he do just that for his own health in the past, and I'm not the only one who has tried to help him get off the ridiculous rollercoaster.  On the back cover of his first book Jackie Eberstein had this to say:


Anyone following Jimmy's blog knows he's not kept it off without dramatic yo-yoing.  Shame on you Jackie for not truly trying to help Jimmy, and if he's not taking your advice as you're doling it out, wake up and call him on that.  Folks it is cruel, not helpful or supportive to stand back and watch a stranger, let alone a friend spiral downward.

But Jimmy is in deep denial  if he thinks he can continue to credibly promote LLVLC  even as a healthy diet/lifestyle in the face of his own experiences.   It would not be so much an issue were it not for the fact that so many are following his lead when there's little if any evidence that it will be fruitful over the long haul or that it is, indeed, healthy.   Going more extreme and using the science supporting FAR more moderate and/or shorter term studies and the results thereof is misleading.

My purpose is to help those seeking answers on the internet to see -- at this point even have access to -- the whole picture.  Evaluate what I say here, critically investigate around the internet and make your own choice of what's best for you.   In the weight loss business, hold the messengers who've made their name losing weight to a standard of credibility that includes whether or not they've maintained and/or are up front about their struggles.  At least hold them to the same standards as those who continue to advocate more so-called conventional means.  It may well be that whatever they are doing works for you or that perfection is not what you can ultimately attain.  I hear you!  Me here!!  But it may also just be that that a paradigm re-shift is in order and the path they're leading you down isn't so well cleared and smooth as they're making it out to be. 

It's not personal, it's not about personality.  It's about opening the discussion up and stopping these personalities from highjacking the discussion into their cultish domains and sealing them off.

And I would say that had I never exchanged a single communication with the guy.  





52 comments:

Chris said...

Good post.

Thomas said...

I think the LLVLC "cult" thing is a stretch and I highly doubt Jack Ebertstein is monitoring Jimmy and his diet failures enough to pick up the phone and counsel him. Short book endorsements may imply a relationship but we know better.

The problem with Jimmy is that due to his LLVLC success he is now married to the LC approach because of financial interest. Discrediting LC may hurt him financially. Trying to discredit you (who tries to discredit his approach)can only benefit him or at least minimize harm. It's a business and (I think unfortunately) it's the American way. I think it's that simple.

foodteacher said...

I think you speak the truth.

CarbSane said...

Hi Thomas, I should have been more specific perhaps in the post. Jackie is a frequent "expert"/speaker on Jimmy's cruises, and I'm sure she's in his Rolodex or the modern day equivalent. I don't disparage her for the blurb on the book (other than that since it hadn't been that long since the weight loss it was a bit premature to claim victory over the yo yo), but she's associated enough with LLVLC these days that she should be more than just passingly familiar with Jimmy -- it's not like one has to look very far.

Here, after the 2010 cruise Jimmy had this to say: I dumbfounded Dr. William Davis and Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt on the cruise when I talked about my blood sugar DROPPING after a low-carb meal, but Dr. Mary Vernon and Jackie Eberstein knew exactly what was going on because they've seen it in patients for many years. I'm so glad I got to spend some time with these real experts to get to the root of my issue and I'm doing something about it!

In his 2010 Egg Fest Kickoff Post, he had this to say: I spoke with Dr. Mary Vernon and Jackie Eberstein about what they think will help me with this and both reminded me that although I'm not 400 pounds anymore, I'm still metabolically hyperinsulinemic. In other words, no I don't weigh as much as I once did, but the underlying condition of insulin resistance as a result of many years of damaging eating due to carbohydrates is still there.

One strategy Jackie (who worked with patients of the late great Dr. Robert C. Atkins for three decades as a registered nurse) suggested was consuming lots of small meals every few hours and make sure they are high-fat, moderate-protein, and low-carb. So that got me to begin something today that I have been meaning to do for a couple of years (I shared my desire to do it in my 2008 interview with Drs. Mike & Mary Dan Eades) -- and now I'm gonna do it!

Now it's fair to say this isn't Jackie's idea after all, but OTOH, she was again a speaker recently on the 2011 Cruise (and likely will be back on 2012). She is assuming he's hyperinsulinemic (he's actually not) and no doubt anyone who can "take the advice of Swedish LC'ers" and add 12T fat to 2 pounds of meat is mangling the advice he's receiving beyond recognition ... Perhaps these experts need to check up on Jimmy in this regard. I would.

Sue said...

Yes good post. The paleos/primals probably blame his junk food low carb snacks and not low carb per se as reason for his weight struggles. Regardless he must be eating more calories then he burns - but I forgot calories don't matter!!

Adam Wilk said...

Evelyn,

Another great posting by you. I think the truth absolutely matters, and I think it's time for everyone to put their cards on the table here--the stakes are just too high for all of us. I'm proud to know you and I'm thrilled whenever I read your words. No, it never was personal with you, and I see how you're much kinder to those who have taken liberties via name-calling and labeling you in the past.
It's great to be here, and again, great to know you. I'm in!
Adam xoxox

Thomas said...

Oops-jackie not jack-sorry. Does Jimmy still maintain that it's insulin and not continuous calorie excess that makes one fat? Do you think he actually believes it? Or cognitive dissonance? If so, that is a serious flaw and he truly is leading people who listen down the primrose path-that as long as one keeps carbs and insulin low, everything is fine.?

CarbSane said...

Welcome to the Asylum Adam! Thanks for the kind words :)

@Thomas: I'm not sure what to believe about what Jimmy believes anymore these days. Either he's so wrapped up in it all he's convinced himself against his own evidence that it's not about the calories, but I can't see how. He's been counseled to watch portions and calories since his "mysterious" weight gain back in early 08, by none other than Dr. Westman and he's counted them for periods in the past (and seen weight loss when he eats less, gain when he eats more). And he used to believe in exercise too. And yet he tells a "dejected" reader that it's not about eating less and moving more. All you need to do is switch to LC?! Sigh.

AL-209 said...

maybe jimmy should change his blog name to "30 burgers a day", the behaviour sounds very similiar

CarbSane said...

LOL AL! I think Jimmy's interview with Durian (30 bananas a day) Rider airs in a week or so. Should be an interesting one! I wonder if it was taped before or after this post of his:
http://durianrider.org/2011/04/12/robb-wolf-got-a-gut-how-come-the-paleo-bloggersauthors-are-chubby/

Muata said...

Jimmy was the reason I started my blog back in 2007. I started following his blog in 2006, but, thanks to Ellis and Colpo, I had ditched the calories don't count nonsense in 2005.

Having followed him for so long, I always knew that Jimmy was eating too many calories. I've seen the challenges come and go, the scale go down and back up, the excuses being made after each regain, etc. So, I was used to periodically dropping in on his menus to see which crazy LC experiment (read: crash diet) he was trying or if he was gaining or losing again.

However, the cult-ish behavior that has developed is not healthy, and, as someone who knows how accountable you have to be to yourself to keep it off, it's really starting to piss me off seeing obese people hustle/hoodwink other obese people!

If you are making money promoting "weight loss", how can you, with a straight face, continue to speak on the topic when you're a yo-yo dieter?

Honestly Evelyn, I appreciate that you are calling folks out because it's just not fair. Nevertheless, it's been a surreal 5 years of following LLVLC ...

Adam Wilk said...

Muata,

I think your story is inspiring, and the real deal! It's good to see you here, my old friend! And everything you just said is absolutely true--a surreal rollercoaster, if you will, as far as trying to follow the twists and turns of that movement. But I do remember turning to your blog, 'Mr. Low-Body-Fat' ;-) for a dose of sanity now and then. Hope you and baby are doing well! We'll talk!
Adam xoxo

AL-209 said...

Jimmy v Durianrider will sure be interesting, but what will we learn? Im guessing not much..other than dont get all extreme about carbs. But we knew that. It seems too few carbs adversely affects ones integrity and too many carbs makes you a confrontational lunatic. And adversely affects ones integrity...

Marg said...

“But he's censoring comments for sure. Mine I know about.”

I sent my first and only-ever comment to his train wreck of a menu blog recently about his not coming clean about what he eats or how much. I threw in something about his product-prostitution, too. Surprise, surprise! That comment never saw the light of day.

I must have forgotten to add that I worship him and that he has changed my life forever with his quasi -fictional accounts.

For transparency, I am a post-menopausal female for whom ten years of an extremely low-carb real-food regimen (very high saturated fat, moderate protein) has worked very well -- weight and lab measurements excellent.

And I don’t exercise.

And I don’t proselytize.

rkoffler said...

As I slowly come back from the edge that your incurable (I'd say worsening) acronymphilia sent me to, I have one thing to say: Give it a rest over this Jimmy Moore character. There is at least one person concerned about his weight who has never seen nor heard Moore: me. And if there's one of us, there's more.

Tonus said...

@Thomas: "The problem with Jimmy is that due to his LLVLC success he is now married to the LC approach because of financial interest."

One of the points that many in the LC and VLC community make is that the dietary standards that are pushed by the US gov't are heavily influenced by the fact that the gov't subsidizes grain and soy production. In other words, that we're given bad advice because it's profitable for the people who give it.

If he is pushing LC/VLC for financial reasons, he's doing something that many in his community (and perhaps he himself) have vociferously criticized in others.

Diana said...

I think the low-carbers definitely exhibit cult behavior.

Muata: I came across your blog a couple years ago when I was in the final death throes of my belief in low-carb, and I discounted you because you weren't a low carber.

If that isn't cult behavior, what is?

Muata said...

That's OK Diana. I discounted more than my share of people back when I was taking swigs of the stevia sweetened kool aid :)

Diana said...

Muata,

Somehow I didn't think you'd mind. You are a little more mature than the LC crowd. (A lot more, actually.)

Stevia...funny you should mention that because I can't stand the stuff.

Steph said...

Well, I'm sure they would have been portraying you as a crazy stalker even if you were a man, so there was no hint of sexism about it.

;)

CarbSane said...

LOL about stevia too. It's long been used with diabetics because it boosts the insulin response. I've tried the stuff. Maybe it's a "taster" thing, but it doesn't taste sweet to me.

Welcome Marg! I wish more folks like yourself would speak up rather than all the fawning followers, but I can understand not wanting to. If your weight and labs are great then keep doing what you're doing!! What I get increasingly annoyed with is that it's not working very well in a sustainable fashion for many of the prominent proselytizers.

The product prostitution is also interesting. Remember when he added in the dark chocolate? I thought it was amazing that Tropical Traditions would "officially sponsor" his new meal plan back in January providing all his food. He was extremely evasive and never gave out the brand he was eating. I can only guess it was because he was trying to get a sponsorship. When he ran out w/o getting that, back came the Atkins and Quest bars.

His current blood sugar testing on products is interesting. He's got a glucose meter and he eats those bars for breakfast all the time. He should know already what they do but he's got to stretch out his latest schtick I suppose. But they're sponsoring podcasts, etc. *sigh*

Diana said...

I haven't read Jimmy's stuff in a while, but when I did, he was, if memory serves, living on diet coke and meatballs.

I tried the meatballs (sans diet coke, yech) and guess what....I didn't lose anything either! I was eating too many of the buggahs, I guess. And meatballs do contain carbs. Who can eat meatballs w/o some tomato sauce? Not me.

Diana said...

Regarding cult behavior, I was clicking around the net, always open to new advice, when I came across this. I will not link, because I do not want Evelyn to be open to more charges of stalking:

"Exercise emphasizing resistance and interval training over long aerobic sessions. Stop eating fruit. Most modern fruit is just a candy bar from a tree. No "bags of sugar" like apples. Only berries. No watermelon which is pure fructose. Eliminating legumes. Eliminating dairy."

Sigh. Where to begin? Does this mean I should give up hiking, because I do it at a steady pace, neither too fast nor too slow (in other words, the exact opposite of interval training)?

And, most modern fruit is not candy bars from trees. Apples are not bags of sugar. It's OK if you are lactose tolerant to eat dairy.

Where do people come up with this s**t?

It's so tiresome!

Muata said...

@Diana - Hey, that quote sounds very familiar. Maybe it came from a certain "Indian Club" practitioner about his recent body fat losses?

Either way, this cult behavior is just nauseous and the internet only makes it that much worse. Comparing fruit to candy or calling carbs/sugar "rat poison" causes you to question the critical thinking abilities of a person OR how much money are they trying to make off of you ...

CarbSane said...

I can accomplish the same result by oiling up, sucking it in, standing up straight, flexing and using the side of my body not tattooed past recognition and some clever lighting. Sheesh

CarbSane said...

Thanks Chris. I do believe you were amongst the first to follow this blog, but this is your first post here. So Welcome!

Muata said...

@ Evelyn - Hey, don't forget about the menacing and very sad look in your "before" shot contrasted with your "victor's" smile in the "after" pic ... LOL!

CarbSane said...

LOL, so true Muata!

Muata said...

After watching Bigger, Faster, Stronger, before and after pics mean absolutely nothing to me. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you have to be creative with your backdrop too ;)

Diana said...

The quote's from a self-styled fitness expert* named Steven Sonnen. I found him by accident. Just googling around. He went from 17% body fat to 7%! Wow! Is 7% body fat good? Dunno.

I'm just sick of people like that.

*I'm also sick of the phrase "fitness expert." I think of the old George Carlin routine (which I believe he borrowed from Groucho Marx) about the phrase "military intelligence."

They are more like injury production experts. After a session with them, run - straight to the orthopedists' office.

Muata said...

Diana, I think you mean Scott Sonnon (aka the Flow Coach). His blog is in my reader, and he has actually posted some good things on the mental aspect of training. BUT, when I saw his before and after pics, I just laughed to myself.

I just wonder how much longer are we going to have to endure this "Grok/Paleo" nonsense?

Diana said...

I haven't checked but I'm sure you are right. And I don't mean to diss him 100% but after reading that stuff I just... well, you know. I mean, you are grokking me, right? I don't have to explain this?

I don't mean to turn this into yet another gender war thing, but I can't resist. It seems to me that men have taken to this "grok" thing, and they are the ones who discount feelings like "listen to your body, you moist dreamy eyed thang you..."

What is grokking if not feeling, as in, "I get it."

Alls I can say is these guys make me want to eat chocolate chip cookies just to spite them.

I won't though. I'm doing my intermittent fast.

Shannon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shannon said...

@LOL Diana, I thought you were referring to Dr. Kurt Harris' dietary advice. Scott Sonnon's is almost verbatim to that on Dr. Harris' blog.

http://www.archevore.com/get-started

Muata said...

Shannon, that is too funny! I guess Scott likes to graze, that's why he dropped Kurt's #7, and is Paleo the same as Archevore? All these new terms are starting to confuse me ...

Shannon said...

I think Dr. Harris' blog describes what it is. I just know that it used to be called PaNu and now it's Paleo 2.0. He says some things are less noxious than others (from what I know, he doesn't think dairy is too bad...which is why it's last on the list). I think he also eats Rice Krispies occasionally. LOL

I just am not sure why Scott didn't at least reference it. Interesting.

Tonus said...

Fair warning- when I get to 7% body fat, I intend to become an obnoxious "expert." As I understand it, once you get to a low enough percentage of fat, your body begins to store condescension instead.

CarbSane said...

LOL Tonus!

Diana said...

Archevore, oy, gimme a break. My head is spinning.

I've discovered a new role model, someone to inspire me the way Gwyneth Paltrow never did:

http://freebetbookmaker.com/images/uploads/allyson_felix3.jpg

Wonder what Allyson's bf %age is?

CarbSane said...

In retrospect I think Kurt was venting some of his own internal conflict issues when he started flaming me here and in the comments on other blogs a few months back. It was right around that time that PaNu -> Archevore. I don't see how someone who's inspiration for blogging was Gary Taubes can basically now deny any adherence to the carb/insulin axis. His vehement defense of GT here was evidence of that.

CarbSane said...

Posting for "J."

Jimmy Moore is a fat sedentary middle aged man with severely disordered eating. His fame does not make him representative of a low carb success story or any dietary philosophy other than a "should consider inpatient treatment" category.

Durian Rider looks like a slightly muscular meth addict. His extreme emaciation gives him very good definition but his actual muscle mass is very small. He is representative of his dietary philosophy because he actually DOES what is prescribed. The "average" fruitarian like the "average" low carber who does not tends to look like a famine victim who has aged 3 years for every one lived.

For the sake of comparison we'd have to get a collection of people who have lost weight [nixes Durian] and who also follow their preferred plan to the letter.

I'll accept his girlfriend Freelee in six years if she stays on target and compare with sugarfreesheila today [similar weight loss...sfs has maintained 10 yrs].


CarbSane response: SFS was never obese really and got a handle on things rather young. Still I guess those two would make a good comparison. Jimmy is, IMO, an excellent example of a formerly more obese person, but I agree his eating is so disordered he makes a poor example for the LC movement. Those who get upset over pointing this out need to recognize that whether they like it or not, he is the biggest voice out there on the internet, and defending and propping him up isn't going to change that.

Diana said...

I'm learning a new name for a new fruitcake every day....the newest one being Dorian Rider. I looked him (her?) up and found this gem:

"Ive raced and trained with some of the fittest men and women on the planet. Household names. Doping superstars."

First of all, I wince when I read things written by people who don't know what an apostrophe is.

Second, how can someone who dopes be called "fit", much less one of the "fittest" people on the planet? Which planet? Mars?

I had an aunt who died at 104, and until the last 3 months she was independent and was in control of her mental capacities. THAT's fitness.

She didn't exercise, other than walking. She didn't smoke, kept a normal weight by eating moderately.

I enjoy calling these people fruitcakes. Because it would really get under their skin, which is likely devoid of all subcutaneous fat.

CarbSane said...

Durian Rider aka Harley Johnstone is a rather scrawny guy. I've not spent much time reading his work. Seems he lives in a parallel world where he can eat 30 bananas a day and run around and not much else. Not my goal in life so it interests me not except for entertainment value :-)

That said, my recent time spent visiting in nursing homes has me making the following observation: most of those disabled tend to be DR like thin, none were obese. A little extra weight seems to be beneficial as we age, too much and we don't get to experience the decline. Interesting balancing act to consider. Uggh if only it were simple!!

Sanjeev said...

taking a break from a death march project to catch up:

A hint for appetite control I came across:

http://oldsite.shamanshop.net/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/593310.0/CategoryID/21500.0/SubCatID/5155.0/file.htm

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/diet-pill-reviews/lipozene-review.html


Diana and Lynn Marie Daye (who wrote about "exercise guru" Tracy Anderson some time ago) may be interested in this

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/the-holy-grail-in-speed-training/default.aspxor click the training Allyson Felix used to reach the nationals level. I don't know how she trains now though.


> I enjoy calling these people fruitcakes

He's vegan; aren't the green bits in fruitcake made from animals? Nasal mucus to be exact? Not very vegan.

Marg said...

Re: "What I get increasingly annoyed with is that it's not working very well in a sustainable fashion for many of the prominent proselytizers."

I am pretty much convinced that "IT'S" not working because they're not doing "IT."

Christopher said...

Don't know if you saw, but an 'interesting' exchange over on Jimmy's site:

LLVLC Avenger
July 8, 2011 at 8:40 pm · Reply

Hey Jimmy. Comment and a suggestion… First, let me just say way to go(!) for your recent good news. And PLEASE keep up the invaluable work you do for the betterment of SO many people. You truly are an Information Age superhero (and that’s putting it mildly)… OK, now for my (humble) suggestion, and it concerns this blogger of whom you are probably aware – CarbSane. At any rate, I feel the time has come for some kind of public repudiation ala Charles Washington… This woman is simply out of control, undercutting the very foundations of that which you and your MANY readers value. She needs her wings clipped, in other words. Alright, rant over. And I really wouldn’t blame you if you didn’t even post this comment – just had to get it off my chest. The sheer injustice of someone you GAVE a platform to in the first place (i.e., the podcast interview) then turning around and betraying the ideals of LLVLC – well, that just kinda sticks in my throat. Thank you again for all you do.

Jimmy Moore
July 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm · Reply

I don’t need to waste my time on those who have proven they have nothing positive to contribute. I have better things to do with my valuable time. Thanks!

CarbSane said...

LOL Christopher. What a joke. Yeah I saw that. Jimmy had me on specifically to counter many of those ideals in the first place oh Avenger. And I'm sure he made good money off doing so considering the number of comments and traffic it generated.

I do thank Jimmy for the traffic boost to my blog. I guess all the readers who have found me as a result and continue to read here all these months later haven't found a thing positive I have to contribute.

Wonder if Jimmy would have the balls to come on my podcast if and when I started one. Bets anyone?

CarbSane said...

I'm sure that may well be the case for those like Amy Dungan who seems to have been "less than perfect" more often than "livin LC" for the better part of a decade. But Jimmy has been pretty consistently low carb, as does Dana, and I have no idea how much she eats, but he eats an enormous amount of food. Period.

nothing91 said...

:-(

http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=5353&pid=137696#pid137696

Ivan C said...

Jealousy seems to be the prevailing message in this blog post. When someone pushes your buttons that much, remember, they're your buttons.

CarbSane said...

Oh thanks for the analysis Ivan! I'm not really sure what about Jimmy I'm supposed to be jealous of other than lacking that self-promotion gene that would lead me to engage in highly unethical conduct for profit. I could have been a decade plus "success story" myself!

Gianni said...

http://i.imgur.com/rzAoG.jpg

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