las

Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Thursday, September 8, 2011

Cysts and Hypothyroid ~ Any Info?

Hi all.  I'm hitting a brick wall trying to find any info on this and am wondering if anyone with hypothyroid has ever heard of this and/or might steer me in the right direction.  Searching on cysts and hypothyroid I keep getting info on cysts on the thyroid which is not my concern.

My mom injured her knee several months ago, and initial x-rays & MRI revealed, amongst torn this or that, a Bakers' cyst.  A few weeks ago she slipped and jammed her wrist breaking her fall.  No break, thankfully, but her doctor asked her if she had any thyroid issues that she was aware of.  I asked him why he would ask and he said it was because she had several small cysts in her wrist.  Apparently (ortho surgeon) he said this is common in people with hypothyroid.  

Is it?  Anyone know why?  Thanks in advance!

15 comments:

Mario Iwakura said...

Well, one of the causes of Bakers' cyst is rheumatoid arthritis and RA is associated with Hashimoto's.

Larry Eshelman said...

This post inspired me to search "Dupuytren's Disease thyroid" and I found that one possible cause is thyroid problems.

I have Dupuytren's Disease (on Contracture) - a thickening of fibrous tissue in the palm which causes contracture of the fingers (usually ringer and small finger). I hadn't connected this to my suspected hypothyroidism.

--Larry

Duffy Pratt said...

I did a search on hypothyroidism causing cysts. The first few entries on google are sites that link hypothyroid with acne, cysts in the breasts, and ovarian cysts.

eulerandothers said...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12613728

True, it doesn't explain the connection, but the text (free) does provide information and references for a start.

Lerner said...

It looks like Mario is right about the autoimmune angle. Here is a list of associated conditions:

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Baker's-Cyst.htm
Other reported associations include gout, intramuscular cavernous haemangioma, pigmented villonodular synovitis, Reiter's syndrome, psoriasis, systemic lupus erythematosus, meniscal and anterior cruciate ligament tears, osteochondral fractures, tuberculosis, chronic dialysis, haemophilia, hypothyroidism and sarcoidosis.



So a lot of autoimmunity. But notice also those related to trauma/irritation.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

This is interesting Mario ... Mom has arthritis but I do not know if it is RA. She's always been dismissive of her arthritis. Her knees have been bad for years and I ask if she's had them evaluated and she would quip back "oh they just say I have arthritis".

Thanks everyone else! Just to be clear the cysts are in the joints. Next visit to the doc I'm going to ask to see the wrist x-ray.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hi Lerner, That is the one reason I am unsure of thyroid/autoimmune. Apparently the Baker's cyst was large when she had the knee first evaluated (about 3 days after the injury) but had all but disappeared in a few weeks. The wrist was eval'd after a trauma (couple of days) and again this past week (two weeks later). Her regular doc was on vacation so there was no mention of the cysts just that her wrist looked fine (there was only a chance of a hairline fracture).

Lerner said...

If she doesn't have gnarled knuckles then it's probably unlikely she has RA in her knees. However, she does have an unusual reaction: maybe hyper-active or unstable mast cells. If not that, then maybe something with bradykinin.

Does she get excessive swelling right after an injury?

If not, does she have ankle edema?

If there is no Fx of autoimmunity, but she is prone to exaggerated inflammatory responses anyway, you might want to get her an hsCRP to gauge CVD risk. CRP might very well be useful to stratify those who are not high or low CVD risk by other measures.

I don't know that actually looking at the arthrogram would help, but certainly you'd want a copy of the report mailed to her. Or if she signs a HIPAA form, you can get it directly.

OTOH, if you do want to see the images, then beforehand: there's a pathologist who calls himself "WashingtonDeceit" who has put really nice videos online, with his explanations. It's like a med school course, for free.

Lerner said...

If she doesn't have gnarled knuckles then it's probably unlikely she has RA in her knees. However, she does have an unusual reaction: maybe hyper-active or unstable mast cells. If not that, then maybe something with bradykinin.

Does she get excessive swelling right after an injury?

If not, does she have ankle edema?

If there is no Fx of autoimmunity, but she is prone to exaggerated inflammatory responses anyway, you might want to get her an hsCRP to gauge CVD risk. CRP might very well be useful to stratify those who are not high or low CVD risk by other measures.

I don't know that actually looking at the arthrogram would help, but certainly you'd want a copy of the report mailed to her. Or if she signs a HIPAA form, you can get it directly.

OTOH, if you do want to see the images, then beforehand maybe look for: there's a pathologist who calls himself "WashingtonDeceit" who has put really nice videos online, with his explanations. It's like a med school course, for free.

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

Baker's cyst, AKA popliteal cyst, is a misnomer. It is just an outpouching of the synovium of the knee joint at the back of the knee. A very common and usually asymptomatic finding on MRI of the knee, it has nothing to do with the thyroid gland.

I've seen it on thousands of knee MRIs and it usually means nothing unless there is trauma or infection or a knee joint effusion making it swell up and cause discomfort. This last scenario is common and would fit your description - that it disappeared a few days after the injury.

"Cysts on the wrist", if visible on x-ray, are most likely in the bones.

Could it be he said hyperparathyroidism?, Hyperparathyroidism can lead to cystic lesions in the bones on x-ray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_tumor

All this is of course guessing without seeing the actual images of course....

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

..or few weeks

Lerner said...

Geez, I'm really liking this place :)

When I'd posted on this thread, I was going to add at the end: "do we know anybody who's a radiologist to read the images?" But I didn't want to stir up any trouble with my joking. And now here's Kurt.

Kurt, you're probably not a bad guy at all, even though being a previous Taubes-worshipper. If you're ever in PA, I'll take you on walks through the woods, without having to pay thousands to that move-nat guy. Yes, that's a slap to people who think they have to travel and pay an "expert" to teach them how to move naturally. Yes, I do know he can climb trees by using his toenails and I can't do that :)

But hey. I've mostly been a programmer, but I've also worked construction - from stick-building houses (and being a de facto structural engineer) to pounding 110# jackhammer at a nuclear (not "nuuuuuckular") power plant in rock. Plus endless hours on foot or bike in the woods.

Evelyn, you absolutely do have reason for resentments against all Taubes-worshippers, present or past. So punch Kurt on his arm, make sure you make a lasting bruise, and welcome him into the fold :)

Kurt, punch my arm anytime :) But you are still wrong as a diagnostician to evade my analysis about the knee and wrist being related. Lord Occam.

Yep, I have seen that you have a farm boy background (if I understand you correctly). How could a good ol' boy have liked dippy Taubes? I dunno :) I did one time visit your blog in the past, but only supposed "elites" could post. Frig that :) Plus, it's intrabreeding - that's how Taubes got popular.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Thanks Kurt. Actually he asked something like "thyroid issues" or if she'd ever had it checked or something like that. I guess I hear hypothyroid so much I just presumed that would be.

Lerner, you crack me up!

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

@Lerner

I know Erwan LeCorre. I am sure for folks with no background in rock climbing, bow hunting and generally creeping around in nature, MovNat would be a very good experience.

I've also done way too much manual labor -since age 12 or so - to bother tossing rocks back and forth, though...

If you read my dormant blog, it will be obvious that what I took from GCBC was first, the invalidity of the diet/heart hypothesis, and second the idea of the nutritional transition and what might account for it. I dismissed the idea that carbs were "poison" almost immediately on anthropological grounds, even as I initially thought a relatively low carb fraction might have been a component of the evolutionary metabolic milieu.

SInce more than a year ago, though, I've thought animal fat and starch are equally legitimate fuel sources - humans in varying biomes have toggled between them in a way that mirrors the randle cycle toggling between glucose and fatty acids. My reading, personal experience and that of patients has reinforced this opinion since then.

I still respect GT for other parts of the book, but you already know that so let's not beat a dead horse...

And William of Occam is justly famous, but it's also well to remember Mencken:

"For every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong"


@Evelyn

HyperparaT may be accompanied by elevated serum calcium - easy enough to check that from her last chem panel if she had one - or via PTH which is a special test.

alferdoz said...

After taking desiccated bovine thyroid supplements . I'm no longer losing big clumps of my hair. My skin has gotten softer. I'm so happy to find it!

Post a Comment

Moderation is currently on. Thanks in advance for your patience.