las

Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Thursday, December 15, 2011

Safe v. Non-Toxic

I've been listening and reading about the web, and the "buzz" over so-called "safe starches" continues.  One of the sentiments that goes with this is the idea that somehow Paul Jaminet is being irresponsible by promoting starch consumption.  The rationale is that because some minority of the population is intolerant to certain starchy foods, at best we should be labeling foods like potatoes and white rice "non-toxic" starches.  I disagree.  Firstly, in their book and on the blog, the Jaminets' reason for designating certain starches as safe couldn't be much more clear.   Secondly, I don't like the word toxic associated with a substance found in natural foods that has sustained billions of human lives throughout many millenia.  

There are a certain number of people who are wildly allergic to peanuts.  Should every book or nutritionist that allows peanuts, or even encourages peanut butter as a good choice for snacks tag them semi-toxic?  In my opinion, the fact that there are some folks with celiac does not justify the demonization of wheat consumption for all people.  Then we have nightshades.  Should we start talking about "non-toxic" fruits and veggies because some seem sensitive to these foods?  


The "conventional wisdom" in low carb circles, is that starchy foods are unsafe for anyone with a impaired insulin signalling -- which is pretty much all of us according to a certain preacher -- for all eternity.  I, and more importantly the majority of peer review scientific literature, would disagree.  Insulin signalling is simply not optimized on a VLC/VHF diet in most people when consuming an energy balanced diet.  While the frank diabetic (no matter the type) is hyperglycemic, to equate this automatically with some permanent/innate  glucose intolerance is misguided.  While temporarily managing hyperglycemia by removing carbs from the diet may work, it is a temporary fix.  Just ask Wheat Belly and Fat Head -- one of whom was diabetic and claims a slice of bread now puts his BG in glycating zone, and the other of whom was not (to my knowledge) diabetic, but claims the same now happens to him.   And the funny thing is that T2 can be reversed.  

There's a second class of people with intestinal issues who avoid all starches.  The theory is to starve out the bad gut flora that feed on di- and polysaccharides.  This is all fine and well, but despite the numbers of folks suffering from these issues, the rates are rather low.  I think folks tend to over-estimate the efficacy rates for these treatments as well.  The ketogenic diet does not work for all epileptics, and it can have deleterious consequences.  One side effect of keto diets, in a population not normally known to have a high incidence of same, is kidney stones.  So should the beloved coconut oil come with a cautionary note?  Is it "safe" in high doses?  

Bottom line, I'm actually getting a bit jaded on this whole safe starch thing because it implies that others are not safe.  While the Jaminets back up their classification with evidence, I'm not seeing where vast swaths of the population, even eating rather SAD-ly, are suffering what anyone would consider toxic effects from gluten, phytates, etc., etc.    If some small percentage of humans is sensitive to a food, is that any reason to consider it to be toxic?  I say stop this madness already!!   Peanuts are deadly toxic to a small number of humans, they are not to the vast, vast majority.  Same with wheat/gluten, rice -- even brown rice -- is not toxic to just about everyone.  I gag on asparagus.  Something about it does not agree with me.  Does that make it toxic?  I don't think so.  Same for some that beloved raw milk so many are fond of.  Many will still not be able to tolerate that, so should any diet rec including raw milk or products made from it contain a "non-toxic" dairy label?  This is silly, really, the more you think about it.      And this is going to sound harsh, but grow up and take some responsibility!  If wheat doesn't agree with you, don't eat it!!  But don't claim that everyone else shouldn't eat it as well just because you have a problem with it.  And I'll thank you for keeping your misunderstanding of human physiology to yourself as well.

When I start hearing of massive numbers of patients going into anaphylactic shock being administered a standard glucose IV, then I'll start to take this garbage of glucose as toxic poison seriously.  In other words, never.   Of course chronic hyperglycemia is a deleterious state, but when people "worry" over the potential danger of calling a macronutrient type "safe", at this point you've really got to be kidding me.  Ninety-nine point 99999 something percent of all humans who have ever lived on this planet have safely consumed starch.  Including diabetics.  Including insulin resistant folks.   And I'm willing to bet the instigator in chief of this debate might just find all of his problems from skin boils, to low testosterone, to possible thyroid imbalance, to abdominal obesity, to dizzy spells, etc. all go away with some starch.  Maybe not, but he'll never find out, because for him, that n=1 jokexperiment involved adding sweet potato fries and bread with butter to his already hypercaloric diet for a few days.  

Furthermore, if folks think it's irresponsible to call starch safe, then be consistent about responsibility of dietary advice.   There are people who react poorly to fats.  I get serious cramping and ... um ... let's just say I'm running fast sometimes when I have MCT's sometimes.  Does that mean it is irresponsible to promote coconut oil?  Heck, that's one type of fat, doesn't that make promoting any fat consumption suspect?  Or should we have lists of toxic fats based on well documented sensitivities of certain populations to certain types of fats?

In a recent interview, Dr. Mary Vernon unequivocally stated that everyone should be on a low carb diet.  Everyone?  Now THAT is irresponsible.  Because certainly folks with glycogen storage disorders would not do well with her advice ... they would die.  Oh but that's rare.  Well, so too are many of the conditions pinned on starches per se.  Many diabetics thrive on higher carb lower fat diets.  So who is irresponsible?  Those who acknowledge this and share the information, or agenda driven folks like Fred Hahn who says that no diabetic would do better eating more carbs?   

I would hope that those exposed to the ideas of a Paul Jaminet and others might just open their minds and reconsider some of their dearly held beliefs.   Sadly, every time I see a glimmer of hope this might actually happen, the LC wagons -- that everyone is proverbially falling off of and trying to stay on --  get circled.  I have enormous respect for Paul and others like him trying to strike that middle ground.  But, I fear some of these still fall into the LC trap of defending carb consumption against the presumed detrimental nature of carbs.  I think that thanks to the Guyenets and Masterjohns of the blogosphere (and others of course), we have a more thorough knowledge of disease-free traditional societies who consumed far more of their daily intake in the form of carbohydrate than the supposedly lethal SAD.  It's time to stop pinning all the ills of the SAD, then, on one macronutrient -- even if one throws in a few references to O6's, transfats, and fill in deficiency du jour here for good measure.

In reading through this I realize it comes off rather snarky, even for me.  I can't help it at this point.  We don't need to be so revolutionary as to reject all conventional wisdom simply because it is widely accepted.  Somebody has done something right in the past 50-60 years ... perhaps?  Why do we throw common sense out the window just because someone comes along with an alternative hypothesis.  Make them convince you with evidence.  Otherwise you're being snookered into answering the "when's the last time you beat your wife" question.  Don't be a snookeree. :-)

58 comments:

LeonRover said...

It's Paracelsus and Claude Bernard again:


Tout est poison, rien n'est poison,tout est question de dose - everything is poisonous, nothing is poisonous, it only depends on the dose (amount consumed).

Swede said...

Well said!

Andrew C said...

Wow. That is a good summary of Jimmy Moore these days!
"And I'm willing to bet the instigator in chief of this debate might just find all of his problems from skin boils, to low testosterone, to possible thyroid imbalance, to abdominal obesity, to dizzy spells, etc. all go away with some starch. Maybe not, but he'll never find out, because for him, that n=1 jokexperiment involved adding sweet potato fries and bread with butter to his already hypercaloric diet for a few days."

Low testosterone and his lifestyle has nothing to do with it, sure...

I'm pretty sure I've seen reports of low testosterone caused by sustained Atkins-style dieting. But in comments on his post about this he keeps talking about how healthy he is on low carb, assuming it has NOTHING to do with his current health problems.

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/low-testosterone-levels-possibly-contributing-to-my-infertility-fat-loss-struggles/12529#comment-385040714
"I can't imagine where I'd be with this had I not gone low-carb in 2004."

I think Jimmy Moore's blog primary purpose is to keep deluding HIMSELF while having the support of commenting cheerleaders (when they're not rolling off and climbing back on the low carb wagon).

Matthew said...

There is no such thing as a safe fat...

Oh wait that would be a bit silly.

Melissa said...

Haven't they ever heard of PKU? Must mean protein is unsafe y'all!

Nance said...

Excellent argument! Sadly, I'm one who can't handle wheat but to my knowledge corn and peanuts don't bother me at all. If we banned every food that made some individuals sick we'd all be dead of starvation.

Josh said...

I haven't followed any of the safe starch debacle so was wondering out of curiosity whether this paper ever came up in the back and forth - 'High saturated fat and low starch and fibre are associated with hyperinsulinaemia in a non-diabetic population'. http://www.springerlink.com/content/fymvqhqrn4kd4lx7/

BHI said...

Is it just me who's noticed that Jimmy has suspended his n=1 experiments just before he was about to test the quest bars? Maybe he didn't like what he found with his higher than normal fasting BGs and didn't want to keep being questioned about it in the comments . . .

Sue said...

Now this is a ridiculous post about carb addiction:
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/jessica-biel-carb-addiction/12468

Poor Jessica Biel - she's so unhealthy!
Its her cheat day - if she looks like that she's doing something right.

Fashiontribes Diet said...

Did you see that thing on JM's FB wall about how excited he is to continue this "discussion" of safe carbs at the next Ancestral Health Symposium with, ugh, Rosedale & Dr. Quilt. I didn't know they let the Three Stooges present at these type of conferences.

Galina L. said...

Wow, I was printing my comment, and when it became long, I got a message from the software that I was cut-out by the Blogger.
Well, I was writing, that eating more carbs will mean to cut out some fat for LCarbers, change their safe routine, probably, even count calories. Should the people for whom LCarbing works to bother? I guess those who feel like crap on LC, don't follow it for a long time anyway.

Recently I change something in my routine. Probably you remember, higher then normal FBS bothered me. I started to snack right befor my bed-time - FBS fell 15-20 points, but I am hungry on the morning. Is it positive? I don't know. At least I know what to do before routine blood test - I don't want to scare my doctor. Not eating after 7 pm was almost like religious ritual for me, when I do it it feels wrong.

bentleyj74 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bentleyj74 said...

Last post had a glaring spelling error on top of being mean. I'm a little reluctant to go for the jugular [despite how richly it is deserved].

Everything about JM shouts "obvious mental illness" from the rooftops. It would not suprise me if one day he had a 357 magnum for lunch.

garymar said...

Actually Evelyn, the proper form of the question is:

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Answer yes or no!"

Sue said...

Bentley that was a silly comment about the 357 magnum.

bentleyj74 said...

I'm serious about that one. Every time I'm just about ready to rip into that guy [like just now for example...as he handed out medical advice over the internet to a complete stranger] some little inner caution light goes off and reminds me that he filmed his wifes miscarriage.

The 357 magnum is what a woman on our street had for lunch today, guess it's still on my mind.

Christopher said...

@bentleyj74 -

Yup. What I was thinking but (admittedly) didn't have the cojones to verbalize. There's SO much I could say about JM that, well, I'd honestly rather say nothing at all.

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

"he filmed his wifes miscarriage."

Are you serious?

Galina L. said...

bentleyj74,

Why to be so upset about Jimmy? At least he is not 400 lb. Mental illness? Come-on. I am intrigued what he would do next. I suggested to him surgically removing the extra-skin flab with fat. Was I wrong to give him a medical advice?

Sue said...

"The 357 magnum is what a woman on our street had for lunch today, guess it's still on my mind."

That's terrible. It would be hard to shake.

Thomas said...

I remember buying into the whole LC is healthier and will help me avoid disease (and maybe death!?) thing but deep down inside feeling that something was really wrong and inconsistent with this. I lived in Japan for several years (didn't see a lot of fat people). We (and everybody) ate a lot of rice, a staple, and life just went on swimmingly. The last time I checked the Japanese life expectancy was pretty good (I can hear the Rosedale's of the world screaming, "just imagine what it would be if they didn't eat rice".).

This whole carbohydrate "problem" is totally delusional as a health epidemic. It seems based in people's need to feel like they are cheating death. No carbs, no cancer? Ha! It's really not worth a worried thought. I'm not talking about eating refined and processed food as a staple, btw (that certainly is a problem for many) but having so much focus on discussing the evils of potato and rice and even bread-jeesh! This has become a worthless fixation. How many years is someone going to lose from their life by eating this stuff when it is part of a diet that isn't based in over-consumption and sitting around all day (I mean working at a computer, not being a professional couch potato)?

Thomas said...

@Kurt Harris,

By the way, I hope you keep posting at Archevore (since I know you read this blog I thought I'd post here). Sometimes I troll my favorite blogs, which you occasionally post on, to see if you've commented because what you say and how you say it is so interesting (a reason I read Evelyn's blog as well). I can only hope to write with such wit. Anyway, butt kissed.

Wright Mind said...

JM can say anything he wants to on his blog, because he has disclaimed it all! See:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/disclaimer

Margaret said...

Low testosterone is a direct result of simply being overweight and/or insulin resistant.

Too much fat means more aromatase, present in high amounts in fat tissue, which converts testosterone to estradiol (thereby depleting circulating testosterone). Insulin resistance reduces sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG is a surrogate marker for insulin resistance, and is inversely proportional to circulating insulin) which drives down circulating total testosterone, because it is almost entirely carried on SHBG.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with this conversation re: JM, however I don't think it's something that should be censored. Anyone who thinks Jimmy's weight issues are purely physiological has got to have lived their lives under a rock.

Because I used to participate so regularly on Jimmy's disco board, I followed his menus blog and got sucked into trying to help him. One can go read his now-closed blog where he ignored the advice of so many well-meaning folks. It's one thing to say "it's my body and I know best" ... fine ... but the many times he cyberchopped off folks heads was disconcerting.

I can only imagine had I followed that blog from its inception, but anyone even checking in from time to time really got a different picture from the Jimmy who blogs on his main site. Patterns emerge between the two -- goal & challenge driven rapid weight loss with full updates (with lots of "yay Jimmy, you inspire me!" comments, followed by slipping back to old LC gluttony habits, followed by abandoning said plan without explanation and a cessation of weight reporting, followed eventually by a mea culpa + new plan for the new year. It's a new expert, new potential cause of his frustrations. He sucks those who don't know his history in.

Galina, excess skin and/or fat cells is NOT his problem. If he took off the belly, his boobs would probably grow when he regained the weight. He's not Woo who is 115 lbs or so. One of these days I'll post about my own dealings with Jimmy vis a vis my podcast interview and ensuing events. He's not a very nice person under the "aw shucks" facade in my opinion. I think it's a story that needs telling.

That he doles out diet advice is frustrating and, in the case of Biel and the diabulimia case recently, downright offensive.

@Kurt: I found the whole notion of publicly chronicling his embryo adoption last summer rather off-putting. So even though I checked in from time to time I deliberately averted my eyes from the videos. Then he posted this menu entry: http://lowcarbmenu.blogspot.com/2011/07/july-27-2011-low-carb-menu.html
The note was: "We went back to the doctor today for our second ultrasound of our embryo adoption. Here's how it went:" I don't know what possessed me to watch it. But I did. Apparently after the pregnancy took and things looked good, the first US was not good and I think they pretty much knew what the outcome would be. The video ends with the beginning of Christine crying and the picture goes away ... "we lost the baby" or something like that ended the video. It took Jimmy a few days to update readers of his regular blog -- so long that he was still receiving congrats there. I felt sickened. Why would you post that video -- nay take the time to do it -- and not just tell people what happened, thank them for their support, and inform all your readers on all your social media sites that you're taking time off to regroup emotionally and hug and comfort your wife. It made no sense then. It makes no sense now.

@Newell, love the new moniker!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Thanks for the correction garymar, I'm probably going to change it. I knew it didn't sound quite right but figured most would know what I meant.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

@Margaret: You are correct it seems. For all the "science" and "experts" Jimmy exposes himself to, however, he still falls for bad science reporting such as this: http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinology/30090
He posted this link over on his forum. The headline "Low Testosterone May Affect Insulin Sensitivity" is misleading as lowT was associated with IR. I think his hypercaloric high fat diet is making him insulin resistant. He wasn't just 3 years ago according to his reported low fasting insulin.

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

@Evelyn

Sorry, I can't get that link to work. Has it been taken down?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hmm Kurt, link works for me. Here's the YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-_Kpm85aEM

Steph said...

Thank you, Evelyn! I'm one who is happily following PHD, hoping to help autoimmune issues, and what's been tripping me up a little as a mom is that one son nearly ONLY likes "toxic foods" - wheat bread, beans, peanuts, fruit, (pasteurized) milk, oh my! I need to just trust that with balance, all these foods are fine for him, he likes them, he craves them, he knows what he's doing.

My very healthy husband is unpersuadable on wheat. But he has no autoimmune issues that we know of, so why should I meddle with him?

As for the JM discussion, this:

"I can't imagine where I'd be with this had I not gone low-carb in 2004."

is just sad. But I've been stubborn and blind more times than I can count, so I can't judge him.

eulerandothers said...

'I lived in Japan for several years (didn't see a lot of fat people).'

Yes! Start with all those Asians eating with every meal, starting the day with rice, ending the day with rice and eating rice for snacks, to cure a hangover, etc.!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

@Fashiontribes: Ugh ... just saw what you're talking about. Paul, Dr. Duvet, L.Ron and Dr. Cate Shanahan (drcate.com). Don't know much about the last one, but she's clearly a low carber likely more low carb than Paul. If that came to fruition not much would come of it. Who knows what levees Quilt would speak of from 30K feet and how he will yoke safety to luna cycles, etc. But it would probably end up 2.5 against 1. And while Paul is for safe starches in moderation, it might just come down to Mercola, who appears to pay lipservice to the notion but comes down with L.Ron in the end. Will the audience learn much? Not without a more even handed panel qualified to speak to the issue at hand.

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

OK, that video is undoubtedly one of the creepiest things I've ever seen.

Has he no sense of shame or propriety?

"Paul, Dr. Duvet, L.Ron"

They are all speaking at AHS 12? Really???

Kurt G. Harris MD said...

Nevermind, I found the thing on his Facebook wall - a proposal only it seems.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Good catch Melissa, hadn't thought of a reason for proteins being toxic. Also, excessive protein isn't good for those with impaired kidney function.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hi Sue, still relatively young, I'm not sure Biel's looks tell us much as to her health. I looked the image of health at 105-110 lbs that I maintained for a year and a half through some pretty extreme eating swings. I do wonder, however, if JM really thinks she is missing fat and that's why she binges, why he thinks that is a carb addiction. Sounds like a fat addiction if anything?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Welcome Nance, BHI!

@BHI: I always wondered what he was trying to prove with those anyway -- alienate advertisers? Still, his nasty exchanges with the Dreamfields and the Julian Bakery folks are reminiscent of his trashing Heidi Diaz aka Kimmer. Not that Heidi Diaz of KimKins fraud fame didn't deserve the trashing, but Jimmy was a KK affiliate and made some good $$ promoting her site/diet. He would have done better to drop that entirely rather than display his hipocrisy. Same goes for these LC products. He endorsed and advertised them for years, and had them as sponsors and made the bucks off of them. Now? Me thinks he thought the wiser of continuing down that path and looked for an out. As it was, Quest wasn't scheduled until Feb 2012. So ... lessee ... at a time when he was eating these every few days, just having one in the morning and taking BG readings needed some grand production and schedule?

@Kurt I'm glad someone else brought this issue up because I think a lot of people were thinking the same things but nobody wanted say anything for fear of seeming insensitive. Especially at the time. I don't think he should have shared the whole ordeal in the manner in which he did. Even if he felt the need to film that last one in the event the news was good, one really has to wonder what he was thinking putting the finishing touches and uploading it when it wasn't. I thought the lack of a warning to his audience was uncalled for as well.

@Josh, I'll have a look at that one.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

@Kurt: Judging from Jack's comments on Jimmy's FB, one can only hope for the credibility of AHS's sake they don't go for this proposal.

M. said...

With Kruse and Rosedale speaking at AHS12, they might as well open the floodgates and let the homeopaths and the aura readers in. Tom Naughton could give a talk on Good Aura Reading and Bad Aura Reading (and why Good Aura Reading tells you to eat low carb.)

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

If they're not careful, AHS11 will end up being the "Ancestral Woodstock" many have described to be. IOW, a one time deal. The speakers, format, etc. was all over the place. I don't think a 2-track format of speakers just to accomodate sheer numbers is a good strategy. Far too many not associated with even the general idea of ancestral were speaking. C'mon ... Naughton? Taubes? Let's not forget Jimmy was supposed to speak (before he went paleo baayybeee!) but gave his spot up to Andreas Eenfeldt. I've watched several of the presentations and do plan to watch a few more, but at this point my reasons for wanting to attend 2012 would be (a) it's not all that far, and (b) to meet some folks I'ld like to in person. Not sure if I'll go at this point ... and if I do, I might just have to go in disguise ;)

Sue said...

Definitely go if you can.

Lerner said...

no Evelyn, not in disguise! You have to go with somebody using a camcorder to show Gary what's-his-name running away :)

That would be more than entertaining. Hey, you could eventually do some quick interviews, even with Gary himself.

Ask him, "Gary, why did you really refuse in front of the whole world to take a lipid panel on Oz's show?"
Then in the final cut, when he's answering, put the caption on the screen: "homina homina homina..."

Then next: "Gary, why did you not once even mention insulinogenic proteins in all of your endless discussion on insulin? Did you know they exist?"

"homina homina homina..."

Boffo stuff :)

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

LOL, Lerner ... perhaps I'll don my Quilt Kent reporter outfit ;-)

JRAC said...

I've watched Jurasic Park, do I qualify to be proposed to speak at AHS12? :-)

Galina L. said...

Sorry, it is sort-of out of the blog-post, but since Monday, after I eat my birthday cake, I can't exit the indulgence mood. I can't honestly blame it on sugar eaten several days ago, it feels like some tumbler in my head switched, and my ability to avoid eating just for the sake of having a pleasant taste in my mouth,greatly diminished. It probably could be affected as well by some lack of sleep lately. I am not eating much , just nibble here and there, but can't stop doing that. My old enemy - grazing. I will eventually go into control state through fasting , but I am not there now. I hate to feel being carried away by impulses. Right now I don't care about my fasting BS (which is perfect lately), or about the optimal amount of whatever, I just want back to my safe routine.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I hear you Galina! You've mentioned "security" a bit lately and I so agree with that. We find something that works, there's comfort in that routine and not fearing backsliding and all that. I'm sure you'll find a way to kick this. When I get in graze mode I try to force myself to wait 5 min to see if I'm really hungry. Or drop and do 20 push-ups. Seems to help.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

LOL JRAC! I think I've seen every episode of the Flinstones and enjoyed that TV show Dinosaurs (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101081/) too ;) Do I qualify??

Lerner said...

Well, I'm no fan of Michael Moore but the "Roger and Me" approach would be suitable to use on Gary, since Gary has to my knowledge never faced anything but powderpuff interviews and would never consent to anything other.

Aside: I'm no fan of Jane Fonda either, but here she says:

She says exercise “changes your head, not just your body”...

“Listen, let me tell you something. Do I like to exercise? No... I don’t wake up in the morning saying, ‘Oh goodie I’m going to exercise,'” adding, "Why do I do it? I do it because when it’s over I feel so good.”


These mental effects are not usually talked about but she is 100% correct there. http://www.andersoncooper.com/2011/12/15/jane-fonda-talks-exercise-and-plastic-surgery-i-look-more-like-how-i-feel-inside/

bentleyj74 said...

Where is the 2012 AHS? Anyone know? I might like to come.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Boston as far as I know. Beth @ Weight Maven is apparently going to be a volunteer so hopefully she'll be posting particulars to her blog. Wanna man the camcorder? Lerner? Anyone? LOL! Any single presenters need a date for the night-before bash? I'm sure my hubby won't mind ;)

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

@Lerner, it's hard to know if folks would recognize me from my pics. I wouldn't want Gary running away before I even get close! It's probably premature to think he'll be speaking this year. But I'd love it if he was.

bentleyj74 said...

Hey Beth do they have the dates nailed down for sure yet?

bentleyj74 said...

If I do come I can be incognito camera girl since no one will recognize me but...I have to fly to get there and I hate flying. Conundrum. :(

Lerner said...

Evelyn, I'd have been happy to video it *if* the event were local to me. In fact, I've been teaching myself a little about video. If anybody's got a spare 7 minutes, here's a film I made one morning last January when it was zero degrees... which for yours truly seems like a nice day for a walk in the park.

A lot of it even takes place ON A DIKE. No kidding.

http://visionals.info/video/ZeroDegrees.php

It is outdoors but the word Paleo is not heard, promise :)

Diana said...

When Jimmy talks about safe starches, is that what he really means? Doesn't he mean, fattening starches?

Let's play a thought experiment. If starches were disease-provoking but made you thin, does anyone here think that Jimmy would be writing about them disapprovingly? I don't. He'd be eating them 24/7.

I'm exaggerating for effect. What he means by unsafe starches is that they are uniquely fattening because in his selective memory, all he remembers is eating 1000 calories of fried apples and pecan log. He doesn't remember eating 16 ounces of protein.

Inevitably these discussions come down to personal experience so here's mine. I've been relatively inactive since an accident on 11/6, and then good old Thanksgiving intervened, so I've been eating a LOTTA unsafe starches. Net result, a weight fluctuation of, get this, 3.0 pounds, from a low of 131.5 to a high of 134.5. And I'm talkin' bad bad unsafe starches, the gold standard of bad food: pasta (with meat sauce and cheese), brownies, cake, etc.

When I go overhard, I just go back on the wagon, as I'm doing today. The answer is: cut back.

I'm not saying this is, in the words of the Paleo crowd, optimally healthy. I suspect it's not, and I'm going to try to cut down on the sugar intake.

But it hasn't caused me to gain weight, or go crazy on sugar binges. Somehow, I suspect that this, and not health, is what Jimmy & Co. are after.

Am I wrong?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

@Diana, Actually it may have at one time been all about weight loss for Jimmy, but now he's so invested in this LC thang that he can't see the forest for the trees. This is why he's all about his "healthy" high fat, mod protein, LC diet. I think he repeats that mantra as much to reassure himself these days as to convince others.

Diana said...

@Evelyn - of course it's a money "thang" for JM now, but he needs a shtick to sell to people in order to make the money - and the suckers who fall for his shtick are there for weight loss, NOT health.

Thing is, they are willing to do everything to lose weight, at least ostensibly, except the one thing that will enable them to lose weight: control their portion size.

I'm not pointing fingers at them because I had the exact same primitive fears about certain foods and the same unwillingness to control portion size as they do. But I'm just sayin'.

A note about primitive fears. Even when I became disillusioned about LC dogma, I was still scared to eat pasta, and desserts, because I thought these two categories of food had a unique capacity to make me go crazy, or derange my metabolism. And this is from a person who was already convinced of ELMM, because it worked for her.

Well I've been eating pasta, and baking up a storm during the worst time of the year and under pretty bad circumstances: an inability to exercise. Result: no weight gain - except when I overdo it, and I don't overdo it to nearly the level I did when i weighed 150+.

The poison is in the dose, indeed. But it's very difficult for some of us to get that, and I feel for them because I once was one of them.

Sorry for the rant, but I think this is the heart of the madness over at La Vida Low Carb, and it ain't about safe anything. It's selling the sensationally skinny thing. If Jimmy were saying the same garbage, but that excluding them from your diet will make a normal weight person, I wouldn't have such hard feelings for him.

But that's not what he's saying, is it? He's selling you Hollywood, and that makes me sick. I'm very against Hollywood.

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