Challenge Accepted!

I have a post that I keep re-working addressing this whole "Antagonism against LC" whine from one Jimmy Moore. Perhaps I hit "Publish" in a day or so.  For my newer readers, a little background.  I basically came to the larger LC/paleo/ancestral community from the LLVLC forum where I was a rather prolific participant.  After losing roughly 100 lbs with an Atkins Induction-style pretty Primal friendly diet with planned cheats from 2007-2009 (most of it in the first 10 months), I plateaued out and went looking for answers.  At that time Jimmy hosted a discussion forum, and it seemed a good fit for a while. Shortly after that I discovered and began following Jimmy's menus blog ... and I'm one with a good memory (something that drives even me crazy at times because I'll often remember exact wordings but not where exactly I read them ... part of the reason for starting this blog) so as I read tidbits there and on his other blog, inconsistencies began to arise.  Because of our podcast, but also before that a few other times, Jimmy and I had corresponded via email.   I've been criticized for "bashing" Jimmy, and doing so because I don't "know him".  But let me be blunt:  I do not like the man based on our personal interactions.  I think he is a two-faced opportunist with a mean streak he manages to keep under wraps in his public "aw shucks" persona.  Oh it's come out from time to time, that mean streak.  I think his "friends" just look the other way. His part in the Taubes/FatHead/Moore "confused, stalking, mentally unstable, female" campaign and violation of email privacy over a critical issue can be forgiven but not forgotten.  And I'm human so I'm sure part of those personal feelings are bound to come through when I write posts like this one.  Still, most of the criticism befuddles me given that I'm only pointing out the obvious, that is at least part of what underlies the rift in the LC and Paleo communities.

Jimmy has staked his claim to his Livin La Vida Low Carb webpire, and although it's clearly not working for him anymore,  recent pictures are really worth more than 1000 words regarding part of the problem.

This picture is from Ancestralize Me! blog.
Please go check out her blog and also check out her other pictures from Paleo FX  too!
She has extensive notes on her blog from the conference and links to FB where she's got much more.

In any case, I was looking on my HD for a file and came across a printout of this thread from Jimmy's forum dated a little over a year ago. I note Jimmy couldn't be bothered to even respond with the perfunctory "THANKS!  But I know what I'm doing" retort his menus readers might well recognize.  Some excerpts:

Jimmy Moore: Longtime readers of "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb" know that since my 180-pound weight loss experience in 2004 I've had a few struggles along the way. The silver lining in all of this despite the obvious fat accumulation in my waistline correlating with the weight gain on the scale has been my health markers have remained excellent. Nevertheless, how I look is pretty important because people view me as some kind of leader in the low-carb community. Starting on January 3, 2011, I began a new experiment to see what I could do to get my body to match my health numbers and how I feel on the inside. I've chosen to stick with three very high-quality foods that will nourish me with plenty of healthy fats along with a moderate amount of protein and very few carbohydrates--grass-fed beef, pastured eggs, and coconut oil. 

Upon seeing this new routine I've started, somebody who apparently has their reasons for hating me personally couldn't resist the urge to post the following comment on my blog:

Quote:I can't believe people are paying you to run a website as absurd as this one. My 2011 prediction is that you will be back to 295 lbs - 300 lbs in no time with your coconut oil, beef and egg diet. You have been obese for years on your moronic diet and yet you continue to believe it works. Wake up dude, science has put your idiotic diet to bed 30 years ago. You need a real diet, not a bacon and eggs and oil and beef diet.

I viewed this as a personal challenge and decided to do something I had not originally intended to do. I will keep eating this way every single day through Friday, April 1, 2011 and predict right now that I'll reach my goal of 230 pounds (or get pretty darn close!) subsisting on just coconut oil, beef, and eggs. CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! This low-fattie obviously has a problem with fat, animal-based foods, or just me personally. Regardless of what leads him to believe I cannot succeed, I will take great pleasure in proving him dead wrong. Don't miss the conclusion of this challenge that just so happens to end on April Fool's Day! How appropriate!

While I don't condone the commentator's words, I too find it increasingly baffling that Jimmy is able to make a living at this here in 2012.  I also had the same (private) prediction -- if Jimmy was going to continue with his "challenges" of rapid weight loss he would end 2011 heavier than he started.  Frankly I'm surprised he wasn't over 300 lbs by the end of the summer, given how the older one gets and the more one yo-yo's, the more friends the returning pounds seem to bring with them.  But someone wondered if I was the person, which Jimmy stated was not the case but he asked my opinion.

No, it wasn't LCC/CarbSane. This person's name was something like Tray or whatever. He is obviously steeped in conventional wisdom regarding fat/animal-based foods causing obesity and heart disease. I would think LCC would love my diet since it has lowered my caloric intake. What are your thoughts about it, Ms. CarbSane? 

Frankly as I was kicked off LLVLC shortly after, I was surprised Jimmy left my reply to stand.  Since they are my words, I'll C&P them here in their entirety for posterity.  It's ironic that 295 lbs is exactly where Jimmy was at in his most recent update.   It seems Jimmy likes to deflect criticism by posting nasties by others.  I don't think my response a year ago was anything but an attempt to help someone with their struggles despite this being right smack in the middle of the shitstorm of antagonistic comments on my podcast over on the podcast site and his blog -- much of which were having to defend myself against misconceptions caused by Jimmy's deliberate mischaracterizations (blamed on the producer) in show notes and such.  

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Low Carb Cheater

01-23-2011, 01:08 PM

I had the post that follows "in preview" before Jedi's rude speculation (I've never posted anything anywhere to indicate that I would write something like that - to you or anyone!). Thank you Jimmy for clearing that issue up.

I think what you're doing is great! If zer0 carb and IF has you getting full on a half pound of meat, when you were eating 2 8oz = 1 pound as part of a typical meal when I first found you on the internet is a wonderful development. As I've commented on your menus blog, every time you've decreased intake, you've lost, every time you've increased intake, you've gained. If you go back and look at your menus circa that 25 pound gain in 6 weeks, its no mystery why you gained so much. You were probably eating like 5000 calories a day!! With your eggfast and this plan, it's very easy for you to keep calories consistently low w/o having to "count" them per se. If/when you transition to a more varied diet you'll need to find a way to keep this consistency up ... that may well require actually measuring certain foods instead of eyeballing and approximating.

What you have demonstrated time and again is that there is nothing particularly wrong with your metabolism. When you reduce intake you lose weight like gangbusters. As you'll read below, I do believe you need to focus the energy of your frustrations to answer the question "why can't I maintain my weight loss" for YOU rather than the "why am I gaining doing all the right things".

I have immense empathy for you Jimmy, and I can't imagine the added stress of you living this struggle out so publicly and making a career of it as well. I lived the yo yo for almost a quarter century, it's no darned fun. I truly believe you'll be healthier and happier at a stable weight, even if that is 280 lbs, than you will be with the massive weight swings. I don't want to see that another-word-for-donkey's prediction come true, but the longer you yo-yo, the greater the chances it will. Because when we yo-yo, the returning pounds almost always bring a few more friends.


My original reply:


Dearest Jimmy:

I mentioned this once to you over at your menus blog, I believe, but I think you REALLY need to go back through your blog and menus (and whatever weight records you may have that were not publicly shared) and look at the journey you've been through. While a net maintenance of over 100 pounds of weight loss is to be commended, your often dramatic weight fluctuations are simply not healthy. I implore you to focus less on weight loss and more on stabilizing your weight. For now, still under 40 y.o.a., your body is weathering the storm. But it's not going to get easier my friend. If you can't stabilize your weight within, say, a 10 pound range, it's going to catch up with you.

I've gone back and browsed through your menus and that "erratic" post linked to in this one. You ended 2005 at 225 - only you know the weight fluctuations to achieve this maintenance/slight loss. In 2006, (from his chart), you proceeded to 8 months gain 15, 3 months lose 25, 2 months gain 14, 9 days lose 9, 4 months gain 28 + ?? gain 5 (high 253 lbs before embarking on that diet that shall remain unnamed) , 1 month lose 30, 2 weeks lose 7, 4.5 months gain 23 before the "mysterious" 6 week gain of 25 more to reach 260 lbs in January 2008.

I did a little checking of my own from this point. Here's the summary from Jan 08-Jan 09: 4 months gain 14, 3 months lose 21, 10 days gain 13, 4 months lose 29, 3 months lose 15, 1 month lose 14 (we could lump those into 8 months losing 58 lbs but it included some challenges). This was the last stretch of sustained losses without a significant uptick in your weight. In Jan of 2009 you HAD succeeded in essentially erasing that creatinine-induced weight gain, and in March '09 you weighed 235 lbs with a 42" waist.

At this point someone named Jade threw down a challenge for you to get your waist to 37.5" or reach a weight that was more "normal" by that (faulty!) BMI standard. In one month you actually gained 13 lbs. In July 09 you weighed 248. Here is where you completely stopped reporting weights on the blog for whatever reason only losses. You had two experiments in the next months (half portions and 6WC) where in both you reported 15 lb in one week losses but no absolute weights so nobody knows the gains in between.

In December 2009 you wrote the following on your blog:
As I documented many times in 2008, a sudden 30-pound weight gain just refused to budge and come off of my body no matter what I seemed to do. In fact, the issue continued in 2009 and got even worse with another 20-pound weight gain for a total weight gain of 50 pounds over the past two years. What the heck is going on here?! This isn’t supposed to be happening

If one presumes you are using 230 as your *success weight* (it is the 410 - 180 figure), and you were 235 sometime in 2009, you gained 45 pounds in 2009, and net 32 of them in the last 6 months of the year with those intervening 2X 15 pound losses. My point? Your weight must have fluctuated 20-30 pounds along the way, and when does this happen most? Following a "challenge" or a "new plan".

So come 2010 you did the eggfast, lost a ton, gained it all back going up and down and up and down. Our friend Muata reached out to advise you to take a break and just try to maintain for a bit. I think you were in the 260's at the time. The result of your various plans has been to basically tack on almost 10 more pounds early in 2010 and end up basically back there by the end of the year.

So .... now you're doing well, losing weight like bonkers again in 2011 (doing, BTW, what so many have suggested to you in the past, but I totally support your doing what feels right to you thing Jimmy ... just it's worth mentioning) and some jerk comes along with his stupid email and what do you do? Throw down a challenge!! Complete with goal and arbitrary date and all.

Please Jimmy, look at these numbers - this is just the major swings
2006 & 2007 you gained 85 pounds and lost 71 pounds
2008 you gained 51 pounds and lost 82
2009 (and no doubt it was more), you gained 56 and lost 32 pounds
2010? it's at least +/- 50 pounds

All in all, in the past five full years you have, in "spurts" - not counting fluctuations daily and minor stints not worthy of emphasizing - gained probably 300 pounds and lost 250 ... this is NOT healthy. PLEASE stop doing this to your body!

Whatever your weight on April 1, I implore you to simply try to maintain that within 5 pounds for at least 3 months if not 6 months before the next challenge. Your long term health depends on it.

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I just thought some of you who never read anything on LLVLC forum might be interested in some of this.  Again, despite asking my opinion, Jimmy never responded.  And here he is a year later .....