Puzzle Pieces ... Low Carb & Thyroid
So ... it' been a while, almost a human gestation period, since I reported my miraculous selenium insomnia cure. In a nutshell, I started taking Se to see if it might help and within days I was sleeping like a baby through the night. Although I found adding starches in somewhat difficult at first, I've also recently made clear that I'm eating a good 100g/day most days now ... at least that would be the average ... for starch. I still eat a lot of veggies that I don't bother counting the carbs in and fruit several times a week, so probably getting about 150g perhaps up to 200 total grams of carbs these days.
I'm now officially through menopause -- over two years now -- and though I find the Estroven helpful still, I'm not real regular about taking it anymore. When my current stock is gone I'll probably not buy more. (Ladies if you have a Costco membership it's really cheap there and worth trying in my opinion!). I haven't had a hot flash or dealt with night sweats in well over a year now. I've also slacked on the selenium ... which brings me to my point.
Look folks, whatever it is, long term very low carbing does not agree with a lot of people. And for me VLC was like my autopilot default setting for over 2 years with wonderful weight loss results and many feelings of good health and all that. So I can certainly relate to the fear or trepidation or whatever of change and not wanting to acknowledge a feeling of "drift" if you will. What do I mean by that? Well in 2009 I had pretty much plateaued out low carbing and what was odd was that some of those things I thought LC had likely cured or helped incredibly ... well those returned slowly and I found myself not wanting to admit it.
Now whether it's thyroid or whatever -- and I do hate those "if you answered yes to two of these 10 questions you might be XYZ" quizzes -- I've always had some of the symptoms ... especially the sensitivity to cold. Despite other improvements, my fingernails were paper thin and I had to get my nails "done" in 2009. But I am pretty much one of those people who only goes to the doc if I've got a problem, though as I age I'm trying to get better at that. I did have the routine thyroid test done and all was normal. I'm still trying to find an endo that's not into HCG (I was all set to get a full workup with one that looked so promising until I saw her on TV hawking that diet -- sorry, I just can't go there) and optimally takes our insurance. But in the meantime, perhaps some puzzle pieces just fell into place.
Maybe low carb depletes selenium ... and maybe that impairs thyroid function ... or whatever ... and who knows, maybe I'm like an Inuit banana eater in January or something ... but maybe it's leptin receptor sensitivity that goes out of whack and throws me off circadian cicles or something. But selenium fixed a problem I didn't even think was related to my diet -- insomnia -- and now even though I've pretty much stopped taking it I'm still sleeping well. And what got me thinking was that Richard Nickoley recently mentioned in one of his carb experiment posts that he's sleeping better these days.
So whether it's rT3 or whatever, or something totally unrelated, I've been noticing lately that a lot of low carbers seem to have trouble sleeping. As I did. And I spent two years writing it off to stress and such when that certainly hasn't changed and here I am sleeping normally again. Of course it could be that the female hormones have settled out too, but I suffered on and off with insomnia well before menopause hit, so I'm pretty sure that's not it ... especially since I had such an abrupt turnaround with the Se.
I'll end this with a fizzle because I don't really have some profound point to make. I just thought I'd share that now I sleep a LOT better w/o supplements. Is it something in the carb foods? Or perhaps something the VLC metabolism sapped? Can't know for sure b/c I don't do a lot of testing. But I for one can't dismiss the reportings of low carb malaise that seems to crop up after a while in so many. So to add to sentiments from a recent post, if some anecdotes are relevant (and they can be), then ALL anecdotes should be relevant. I'm not telling anyone to change what's working for them, but I do think we all have a tendency to rationalize and convince ourselves that things are going along swimmingly when they really aren't. If you are a low carber and your sleep is disturbed, it's something to consider changing.
I've been up too late tonight! Nighty nite peeps!
Comments
I went from waking completely 2 times every night, every 3hrs at the end of a sleep cycle... More unrefined sucrose, is what seems to be helping me (liver glycogen??), shutting down stress hormones?? But should note my diet has been 50-70% carbs for the last 2.5yrs... it can take a long time.
http://180degreehealth.com/2012/02/how-much-water-should-you-drink
Supplement wise the only thing I take regularly is Magnesium before bed, I find myself less dehydrated in the morning when I do (fwiw I typically have very dry mucous membranes in the morning sometimes leading to sinus problems and have for years, even well before considering LC, and LC didn't seem to help or hurt it)
This one is mostly about the effect of insulin on carb free diets(they become extremely insulin resistant) but it covers some info about the thyroid and mentions the butter/hyperplasia study-
http://jp.physoc.org/content/60/4/293.full.pdf
This study is very interesting, they compare a 60% sucrose/fat free diet(high CHO) to a standard diet that contains 55% complex carbs-
"The dose of T3 required to achieve 50% maximal response was reduced 3-7 fold by the high CHO diet"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371445/pdf/jcinvest00689-0179.pdf
In regards to estroven you might want to check out www.raypeat.com and read his articles on estrogen. You would probably have much better benefits using progesterone over trying to raise your estrogen. Estrogen isn't something you want to mess around with.
The insomnia thing is very real though, going into deep ketosis seems to make it take longer for me to fall asleep when my head hits the pillow, I dont sleep as deeply in ketosis and my sleep duration is reduced. My energy levels are way higher in ketosis though, which I think is part of the insomnia.
High levels of ketones seem to be very excitatory as observed after drinking high dose coconut oil, it feels like ive just drunk 30 cups of coffee and my brain is spinning.
Is it related to the postprandial somnolence thing perhaps? Where insulin spike allows tryptophan to have higher unimpeded access to cross the blood brain barrier to make serotonin?
Here they are, for anyone interested:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371281/?tool=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1249190
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/48/4/577.short
http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/2/391.full.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0026049578901373
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3702673
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11167929
Re: selenium, I was surprised to find it really reduced my OCD symptoms.
Re: sleep, I recently had my husband raise the head of our bed 6" as an experiment, as I read it can help with varicose veins. So far, I've found I sleep much better. (I also now remember my dreams, which is odd for me.) My husband has noticed no difference, but he sleeps well generally.
yep, because they are advocates and attack or ignore anything that doesn't fit in with the trend that they espouse.
My own experience with stomach acid went like this: Wolf was often talking about how people need to take acid supplements. I was dabbling with LC Paleo just to see what it would be like, and would sit down to a meal of 3/4 pound ground beef plus some broccoli. Within an hour I'd have a terrible acid stomach, which I otherwise would never get eating normally. So, that told me I was not hypoT and I therefore also didn't have to worry about not absorbing minerals properly - which might exacerbate hypoT in those who already have it, vis-a-vis Magnesium.
@Lerner, well can we count Sean?
IOW, calories count when I want, don't count when I don't want: Dr A must have got his degree from the humpty dumpty medical school[0]
to be fair to Atkins, contrary to his later followers, in later chapters (of the edition I first read) he specifically wrote that many who think they have broken metabolisms didn't.
[0] Is that the name of Yale's med school?
and they gained weight because they overate.
This was where he was discussing people who added back carbs, were able to add back a lot of carbs and maintain stable weight.
For selenium I eat 2 Brazilian nuts a day, it is my nut indulgence excuse.
"I've never had any reaction to CO or MCT's other than running to the bathroom if I have too many MCT's!"
True about my favourite coconut oil! In fact, true about any fat. Too much of fat and I will be visiting the toilet many times. I don't think I will ever be able to follow the advice of low carb extremists regarding fat. If I "up the fat" above my normal intake, I will be spending more than my normal time on the commode :)
One thing I don't really understand is the glorification of lack of hunger by low carbers. If you read some of the posts of low carbers in various e-forums, you would think that not being hungry any time is a very pleasurable and desirable state. I on the contrary welcome hunger. Normally, I do become hungry at meal times. Hunger adds to the enjoyment of food. If I am not hungry, I don't really enjoy food. If am sick or my tummy is out of order, I don't become hungry. This has led me to equate lack of hunger with sickness and stomach problems.
Regards,
Rad
I feel my best in ketosis, calm but high energy level, perfectly balanced mood, no pre-menopause symptoms. I don't think it is any reason to over-consume fat in order to get there, there is enough in one's body already.
A diagnosis of "normal" means very little. I had a diagnosis of "normal" when my FT4 was 9.8 (RR = 9 to 24). My "healthy" FT4 is ~18.
I eat 10 Brazil nuts a day and I don't smell peculiar (a symptom of excessive selenium intake).
Why do you eat so many of the nuts, I thought you were not very fond of O6?
I don't binge on them. I lay out 10 nuts & 10 prunes and eat them one at a time, washed down with a mug of milky coffee. That's my breakfast.
Dreams can be quite vivid.
This has been a common 'warning' about melatonin since it first came out. I went on a long hiking trip with a guy who was borderline sane - he was never homeless, but at the same time rarely held regular jobs and was into conspiracy theories and such. I lent him some of my melatonin to help with sleep, and the next morning he couldn't stop talking about all of the crazy dreams that he had!
The main thing that I did to improve my sleep was to remove ALL stimulants - coffee, tea, soda, etc...
"A large experimental evidence exists suggesting the inhibitory action of melatonin on thyroid growth and function; this effect has been revealed by using different experimental models: by chronic and short-term melatonin administration in vivo, by light restriction, which is known to increase the activity of the pineal gland, by pinealectomy, etc."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12019356
If Brazil nuts were that toxic (they're actually slightly radioactive!), there would be a warning on the packet "It is dangerous to eat more than X nuts".
I also occasionally eat a whole 213g can of Alaskan wild red salmon. That's equivalent to taking 21 1000mg fish oil capsules.
I like to live dangerously!
1) They're high in fibre.
2) They're high in fructose & sorbitol (which gives you colic, wind & diarrhoea if you eat too many).
My brekky gives me a good run for my money! ;-p I'm also lucky in that I can now eat anything I like without suffering from hyperinsulinaemic lethargy followed by ravenous hunger. I used to be muscularly very IR.
@Nigel, I think it is very important how somebody feels after a meal, it is the bottom line. If it doesn't put you in a sugar coma, it keep you satiated for at least 3 hours - it is right for you. From my perspective nuts/prune combination looks like a snack, I personally like to feel that I had a meal, something egg-based for a breakfast, but it is just a personal staff.
The coffee contains ~100ml Gold-top milk, so my brekky also contains milk proteins. The casein micelles in milk coagulate into curds in my stomach and casein is very slow to digest. This keeps my stomach happy.
I don't care about RDAs. If I got 100% RDA for Vitamin D, I'd be screwed. I get 1,250% RDA and have normal blood levels of Vitamin D & calcium.
ketogenic dieting has been associated with selenium deficiency. This was a real lightbulb
moment.” http://paste2.org/p/1762113
-
And unrelated, looks like DrG's latest vol8 is out . | ..
"Too much selenium hurts swimmies..."
Due to pituitary failure, FSH = 0.
I no longer produce any swimmies to get hurt. Thanks to Testogel, my libido is, uh, just fine (TMI)!
P.S. Tim, you know where you can shove those EDTA suppositories! ;-p
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1529622/?page=1
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