las

Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Thursday, May 3, 2012

The Cult of Disarming Personalities

The title of this post is a little play on the phrase "cult of personality".  Have a listen, or read the lyrics of the Living Colour song.  

{And during the few moments that we have left 
We want to talk right down to earth
In a language that everybody here can easily understand}

Look in my eyes
What do you see?
The cult of personality

I know your anger, I know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
Oh, I'm the cult of personality


Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel prize
When a mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set me free

I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
Oh, I'm the cult of personality

I exploit you, still you love me
I tell you, one and one makes three
Oh, I'm the cult of personality


Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality
The cult of personality

Neon lights, a Nobel prize
When a leader speaks, that leader dies
You won't have to follow me
Only you can set you free

You gave me fortune, you gave me fame
You me power in your God's name
I'm every person you need to be
Oh, I'm the cult of personality


I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of, I'm the cult of personality

{Ask not what your country can do for you. The only thing we have to fear is, fear itself}


My disillusionment with "the community" continues on.  Honestly I really thought most people were smarter than to fall for a Jack Kruse character, but I was wrong.  The popularity of his unreadable blog seems to be growing unabated by the most ridiculous sayings and story telling, most recently at TEDx Nashville.  The first concerted burst (not that there hadn't been isolated pockets) of criticism of Jack seemed to come around the time of his Paleo Summit presentation which was followed up by his "Holy Trinity" epic blog post where he introduced his "Cold Thermogenesis Protocol".  This post included early on an endearing tale of Jack's childhood:

My brain thinks horizontally and vertically. Most people work in the vertical dimension, because of how we are taught to think in modern times. This method of education leads physicians, scientists, and most of the world to a habit or thinking reductively about all things. We all need to rethink how we think about all things, as I spoke about today in my talk with Sean. In addition, I was not born with this ability to think horizontally or vertically. I taught myself how to do it as a kid, when I learned how Einstein, DaVinci, and Michelangelo thought. Instinctively, I knew I had no one around me that thought like this, because no one was as successful as them. My mom knew this too, but she never told me back then. She was always afraid of life, but she taught me that fear freezes you until you stop cowering to it. She told me that life begins at the edge of our comfort zone, but too often our fears keep us from going there. It was also implied by our circumstances back then. We had to rely on others to survive, and they made sure we knew about it in many subtle ways. Even as a kid I could feel that and it was uneasy. I learned a lot from this time. This did not sit well with me as a child, and it fueled my curiosity. I told my mom in first grade that I never wanted to live like this when I grew up. She told me that if I wanted to change my lot in life I had to learn things and begin to create my own reality. I can hear her saying that as I type these words with tears in my eyes. It was the greatest gift my mother ever gave to me. I am sad that I never told her that before she died. I am also sad that she never saw the true power of that lesson unleashed. Ironically, what I uncovered here, might have allowed her to do just that, if I would have begun it sooner. That is a regret I will have to live with. I am hoping to close that wound by sharing it with all of you now.
In second grade, I thought that if I wanted to be good at life I had to learn to think like the best thinkers I knew of. My mom told me the best thinker’s ideas all lived in museums. I lived in NYC, so I had plenty of mentors to study from. My mom used to give me $1, and I would use 35 cents each way on the subway to go to the Museum of Natural History in NYC. Back then, it was safe for a little kid to travel the subway all alone. It left me 30 cents. 25 cents would be spent on a giant NYC pretzel bought outside the entrance on hot burning grills. I can still smell them. I would sneak them under my coat. In those days, to gain entrance to that magnificent place, you just had to make a donation. I only had five cents left, so I used to give them what I had left over. On average, I went to this place a hundred days out of my year from second grade until seventh grade. The ladies at the entrance began to recognize me, and befriended me. I told them why I came so often, and they were really nice to me. They always let me bring my pretzel inside, as long as I agreed not to make a mess. In winter, they often gave me hot chocolate to drink.
They told me about tours going on that I could follow along and learn about. I went on hundreds of these expeditions through the museum and learned so many facts. It was an incredible experience. As I learned them, I wrote down these facts in a notebook. On the way home on the subway, I would study them and make notes about what I needed to learn in the school. My school had a big library across the street so this was made following up an easy task. The more facts I learned, the more connections I made. The more connections I made, the more things that made sense. From that I gained a deep insight of how things worked, and from those facts I gained wisdom at an early age regarding science and biology.

As a native NY'er myself, though raised in the burbs, I had flashbacks to school trips to that very same museum.  I found the story endearing if ringing untrue based on my knowledge of the state of NYC circa Jack's and my childhood.  He just turned 47 so that puts us at similar ages.  I can assure you that you'd be more likely to find young children riding the subways alone today than back in the 60's and 70's.  I can also assure you that young children were not allowed into museums by themselves without being accompanied by an adult.  If one of us wandered away from our museum tour, you can dang well bet a security guard nabbed us and reunited us with our group but pronto.  But as I slogged through this tale I realized something.  Jack had just disarmed me a bit.  He appealed to sympathy and I began to feel sorry for him.  Reading what comes next in that mindset tends to make for a more gullible audience.  By this I mean it plays to your gullibility, and disarmed of your common sense, it's easier to buy into what is about to come.

Jack Kruse's is a Cult of Disarming Personality

We've just witnessed yet another episode of this phenomenon starring one Jimmy Moore.  Jimmy has the "aw shucks" Southern nice guy thing down pat.  I mean any man that can get called "delightful" by Richard Nickoley, well .....    I can attest to Jimmy's disarming qualities personally from my podcast interview.  Before the interview we chatted for a few minutes, and one can imagine how nervous I was going up against Taubes. But Jimmy has a way of putting you at ease, although obviously not entirely as evidenced by my nervous laughter and other nerve-quirk behaviors in the podcast.  Jimmy is a tall guy who stands out in any crowd, even at a reduced weight.  His personal weight loss story -- the 180 lbs lost in one year on Atkins -- is inspirational.  And he's very good at doing what he does.  He has made his "struggle" yours in a way.  And he's somehow able to hoodwink enough of his audience into believing he's a genuine nice guy who just wants to help people see the light of LC he found in 2004.  I suppose it doesn't hurt that he hides behind his religion quite a bit too which appeals to fellow Christians.  I find this appalling because he's behaved in very un-Christian manner too many times to list.  It can be seen in the comments on his non-response to negative criticism post.  Heavily moderated no doubt, to show only the love and disarm would be critics lest they be lumped in with the Razwells of the world.  

Jimmy Moore's is a Cult of Disarming Personality

Now this last example is not quite in the same league as I put the last two, but nonetheless this phenomenon certainly applies to Mark Sisson.  Somewhere, I don't remember where, it was mentioned that Jack Kruse had likened himself to Tom Cruise's Maverick character in Top Gun.  Well if Kruse is the Maverick of Paleo, surely Sisson is on the short list of one to be Hollywood!  He's got the look, but by all accounts, unlike the character Hollywood, Mark is a really nice guy.  He's also been described as an introvert who goes out of his way to be accessible to his fans at meetings and such.  But he is also a marketing guru first and foremost.  And he's very, VERY, good at it.  You don't see a lot of public criticism of Mark though I've heard lots of whispers, and when I've mentioned his supplement and "primal" shake mixes folks have agreed.  When talking about immunity, it seems Mark's persona and popularity that makes him immune to criticism.  His would be critics are disarmed before even "meeting" him!  

Mark Sisson's is a Cult of Disarming Personality

To be sure there are others, and I find the last example far more innocuous than the first two, but this is a phenomenon folks should tune their radars for.  Whether it's this online community or in your own "real life".  The tactic of disarming you in this way is classic, and while it may sometimes be just how a person is, it is more often than not contrived.  So in Mark's case, you're ripe to fall for the notion that Grok foraged for plants with the least nutritive value despite that making no common sense.  In Jimmy's case, you're ripe to fall for his notion that he's fighting a damaged metabolism because you either feel sorry for him or can relate to the delusional state he's in vis a vis his weight issues.  And in Jack's case, you're ripe to fall for his quackery because he weaves a compelling personal story, and we all probably want to be a little bit Jack at times.   But ...
Don't Fall for these Cults of Disarming Personality

39 comments:

Unknown said...

I think the disarming ones tend to be people who do it for a living because they have to appeal to a big audience.

The ones for whom it is just a hobby don't have to disarm anybody.

Leighan said...

"My brain thinks horizontally and vertically."

Oh my.... can't believe he actually said that *facepalm*

And he goes on as if it's real.

bentleyj74 said...

Jack Kruse : "My brain thinks horizontally and vertically."

Reader : "Oh. So, what exactly does that even mean?"

Jack Kruse : "It means my brain doesn't function like most people"

Reader : [Sympathetic grimace] "Sorry to hear it man, that sounds bad"

Jack Kruse : "No, no, no peasant. You don't understand. This is how I came up with ideas like injecting myself with MRSA and having unanesthetized surgery."

Reader : .....................

Reader : [Waits for punchline] [Slowly realizes there isn't one]

Reader : "Well...uh...good luck with all that erm...

.....coughsintosleevegottafeedthecatsbye

Jack Kruse : Too busy humming his theme song "Jack Kruse, NEURUSURGEON SUPERSTAR" and watching his thoughts scale vertical heights unattainable by mere mortals who are not currently being prescribed lithium to notice a hasty retreat being beaten.

Moral of the story? If he reads like the back of the Dr Bronners bottle you should probably reconsider letting him cut open your head and operate on your brain.

Brian said...

"You don't see a lot of public criticism of Mark though I've heard lots of whispers, and when I've mentioned his supplement and "primal" shake mixes folks have agreed."

Confusing and disjointed sentence. Lots of whispers? Who's whispering and what exactly are they saying? And why are they motivated to whisper?

"Folks have agreed"? With what specifically?

Not very impressed with this blog post. I get the criticism of someone who is lying or employing a questionable moral tactic in order to draw someone in. And, one of the best techniques in direct sales print copywriting is the "disarming" personalization of the copy. People love to hear personal stories about an author - it draws them closer. It's a totally legitimate writing style and technique in order to persuade.

I see nothing wrong with shaping your message in a way that is most meaningful to the customer/reader? In the context of this discussion, everyone in "the community" is trying to persuade readers and employs their own method to accomplishing that goal.

Tonus said...

CarbSane? MORE LIKE CRABBYSANE, AM I RIGHT????
/nervous laughter from the audience, peppered with some "ooooh snap"s

The best line from that bit that Kruse wrote, was when he writes "[My mother] told me that if I wanted to change my lot in life I had to learn things and begin to create my own reality." Well, he seems to have mastered the latter part!
/rimshot
/riotous laughter and applause

Yeah, I'm pretty primed for the next LC Cruise. *slicks back eyebrows*

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Valid criticisms. I don't plan on violating email privacy or trying to track down every tweet and discussion forum comment that, while public, would qualify as whispers in venues Mark doesn't frequent. I've posted from time to time on Mark. One here: http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2010/10/whats-with-all-supplements-and-primal.html You might want to watch his video interview with FTA linked to there: http://freetheanimal.com/2010/04/a-conversation-with-mark-sisson-about-primal-business.html -- this is 2 years old.

Part of Sisson's untouchability is because he started this with a leg up having been in the business for a good long time. He's nice. He looks the part and walks the walk. He's popular. Perhaps it's not disarming so much as intimidating for folks to even criticize him. Frankly his science is pretty crappy for someone with a degree in biology but since most people really don't rock out with their Grok out for his science, it's not really worth too much attention.

Sure a personal story is legit ... provided the personal story IS legit. That's where Jack lacks and Jimmy's is getting flimsy. Mark's is not relevant to folks like me or Jack or Jimmy and countless others though.

Sanjeev said...

I'm actually surprised. I would have expected him to claim thinking
forward
backward
sideways
diagonally
interdimensionally
quantum-ly
chaos-ly
fractally
chaotically-inter-fractal-dimensionally while chewing gum & dancing the foxtrot.

...

C'mon Jack, get back on the ball ... you're disappointing me. The only thing I NEVER EVER EVER expect from you is skepticism. You didn't let me down when you slagged experimentation and elevated mental masturbation above randomized controlled trials ... setting the world back before Bacon & the enlightenment, please, more of that.

Galina L. said...

I don't think that Dr.Kruse has a disarming personality at all (he scares me, for example, and I am not a super-conservative person), it is rather a Jemmy Moore's description, Tom Naughton and Stephan Guyenet are good examples of very charming people. Dr.JK is more crazy than disarming. Being crazy is not necessary a disqualification. There are mentally unstable but incredibly smart or even brilliant people. I think that somehow the maniac drive of Dr.JK makes his followers exited and mentally stimulated, which adds the placebo effect on the top of possible effect of recommended treatments. Dr.Kruise was not the one, for example, who discovered benefits of cold water.

Unknown said...

It also helps that he was an elite athlete, so when he writes about how fat is the better fuel and how you have to accustom your body to run on fat it's harder to tell him that's a crock ... he knows a heck of a lot more about athletic performance than anyone in the room

But mostly it's the niceness, it's hard to imagine anyone having a beef with the guy.

Lerner said...

I did watch Kruse's TEDx talk. Once again, he seems likable to me. But as always, the refusal to provide any evidence of his extravagant claims is a fatal flaw, so I therefore wouldn't care much about what he says or claims. Btw, when I'd first heard his MRSA claim, the first thing that I'd thought of was that in the Black Death of Europe 1300s, 2/3s got the bubonic plaque and half of those died - but 1/3 of the total were somehow immune, and presumably they didn't escape infection merely because they were not exposed. So that, among other examples, does indicate that heightened immunity can exist.

I also like the way of thinking, insofar as ranging far and wide, doing a kind if 'Sandwalk' approach - but ultimately that thinking should end up being grounded in reality and not whimsy. Once again I'll point out that Hof took LPS endotoxin via IV and purportedly suppressed the expected immune response; he did not (as Kruse says) try to infect himself with live bacteria. Also, IIRC others besides Hof have gotten fairly far up Everest in shorts - because it was a very mild day weather-wise when they did so.

Overall wrt to the point of Evelyn's article, I agree completely. That's why I'd mentioned 'Ramtha' here not too long ago - she was the blond with the ponytail and the Nehru jacket around 1990, going into channeling trances and saying things like, "I have the vast wisdom of the ages and will lead you to peace and prosperity in your lives". She was the subject of more than one expose', yet she still has followers today, and is even on youtube. One commenter there said that the going rate to have lunch with her was IIRC $500-1000.

Woodey said...

Jack Kruse is a poor man's "See Spot Run". I read everything from Hunter Thompson to Anton LaVey to Robert Howard, people with flare and style, Jack is just too full of himself and sh*t for me to get into.

Jimmy and Mark are salesman one is good at attracting people by yammering off at the mouth (Jimmy) and Mark is good by taking off his shirt and doing the "look at me and you can to" act.

I was surprised that you didn't mention Taubes. That guy is the ultimate cult of personality, he even influences CoP people like Jimmy.

Honorable mention would have to go to Naughton. I like some of the things Naughton has said, his presentation on spotting bad science was good (he needs to apply it to himself more often), but his personal anti- establishment/government bias keeps him from making real strides. I also see him as an enabler and rubs elbows with people like Jimmy to help him get a leg up in the LC community.

Bottom line is anytime society puts people on a pedestal they tend to get deified and above reproach, it's all downhill from there.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hi Galina, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think we have a little language barrier thing going on here. "Disarming" is not "charming". By disarming I mean someone who uses some tactic -- intended or not -- to insulate themselves from scrutiny/criticism. In this regard, Jack is a classic case with his personal story and especially that childhood tale. In Jimmy's case it's the personal story and martyr thing. In both cases some will find themselves hesitant to criticize lest they be seen as insensitive or worse. Neither Naughton nor Stephan is "disarming". Charming? We'll have to agree to disagree on Naughton, and Stephan doesn't reveal much of his personal life/personality in his blog so while he may well be, that's not the first word I'd use to describe him though I think he probably is quite charming in real life.

Tonus said...

"There are mentally unstable but incredibly smart or even brilliant people."

"I prefer to think of myself as misunderstood." --Ernst Stavro Blofeld

Lerner said...

Woodey said, "I was surprised that you didn't mention Taubes. That guy is the ultimate cult of personality, he even influences CoP people like Jimmy."

Woodey, you crack me up :) and yet there also is that truth to the comment. That was like a few days ago, when you'd written about how Jimmy could possibly lose his initial 100 pounds or so if he indeed had a 'damaged metabolism' that prevented weight loss.


P.S. I had the boob tube on the other day and saw that Montel is selling a Vitamix type machine along with that Sylvia 'psychic'.

Woodey said...

Glad I could bring you some entertainment, I do enjoy amusing people. To me there is nothing greater than making another person laugh or smile, although making an a**hole cry is up near the top.:)

I didn't even know what a Vitamix was (the rock I live under is fairly large) so after reading about it I was not to impressed.

Psychics, is there a more despicable bottom feeder that makes money off of other people?

You might like this if you haven't seen it before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P9xzm_QYD4

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

LOL Tonus. Having known some manics in my life, I see that in Jack. Except the manics I've known have lost a certain degree of control from time to time that Jack seems to have been able to avoid. As crazy as he comes off, he hasn't lost control to the point of the internet equivalent of public nudity/urination/ranting-incomprehensibly (well ....) in about a year of this. So it seems more contrived, and a little birdie just dropped a plop in my Inbox I plan to share soon showing that this saga of Iceman/Maverick has been long in the making.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hmmmm ... I guess "cult of personality" implies personality! I see Taubes to be a cult of pseudoscience. Granted driven by his persona, but his engaging/inspiring/enlightening/whatever personality ain't what's driving his cult. Same with Tom, though some find him humorous. Neither disarms in my book. These two are more insidious.

Woodey said...

Yeah that's true. The more I think about it Gary always came off as a de-boned fish. It was always his crusading pseudoscience that got me to listen, that and a respectable Skeptic group endorsed him. Naughton is occasionally funny, then again who isn't? I can see why he doesn't make a living off of his humor.

Galina L. said...

You are right, I misunderstoond what you said as if you meant "disarming by being charming". Sometimes I make a mistake of translating things into Russian instead of understanding it in the contest on English language.

Lerner said...

"Gary always came off as a de-boned fish" there is it again :) How about Woodey in a comedy face-off with anybody the LCers or Paleos want to send in? A different one every week, as they all fall one by one.

But seriously, yolks, "cult of personality" might also include Rasputin, who reportedly was not likable or charming.

P.S. I'm quite sincerely not referring to Kruse or any individual at all in the following, but there is a difference between a manic episode and hypomania. There is also such a thing as hypomanic charm, as portrayed in "Mr. Jones". That's the movie (with Gere), not the song.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

"Isn’t it ironic that in the midst of trying to help others live a healthy lifestyle that perhaps I’m partially destroying my own in the process? " ~Jimmy Moore

A more perfect example of what I'm saying vis a vis Jimmy I couldn't make up myself.

Leighan said...

Anthony Colpo just published and amazing interview on his site and I think its something Jimmy could certainly do with reading

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Perhaps we should have "Comedy Night at the Asylum" here ;) Quite a few could contribute! I know many keep me laughing :D

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Just tweeted that http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=3516 I have some blog posts in the works on some topics Muata raised. ED's and supplement abuse being among them. Jimmy will likely read it and ignore at his own peril.

Leighan said...

Wasn't sure if you'd seen it and as I was reading it I realised how great it was!

Straight up and to the point. I think it really hits the nail on the head about how people spend so much time looking through all the metabolic details when it's really not necessary!

Lerner said...

a quick note to say that the Oz Effect resulted in Green Coffee Bean Extract being sold out all over the internet once he recently recommended it for weight loss

Sue said...

Great interview - really enjoyed the read.

kayness said...

in Colpo's interview:
"I can think of at least one well-known example, who shall remain nameless, who in the early 2000s began hyping his darling diet paradigm to anyone who’d listen, based on the ‘sensational’ weight loss he allegedly experienced, but has since ended up fatter and unhealthier than ever, he’s become a virtual poster boy for the ultimate futility of dietary faddism. "
I wonder if he's talking about Jimmy here.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I'm thinking not. Jimmy would be more mid-2000's and although he fits the bill as a virtual poster boy for the ultimate futility of dietary faddism, he hasn't yet gained back all of his weight and then some.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I know, right? So many can rattle off cites from high level textbooks as if they've got college degrees in biochemistry. They "know" exactly why they are fat and eat a diet that is supposed to reverse this, and sit on their butts wondering why LC isn't working because they're "doing all the right things". Sigh

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Jack's "epic biohack" was very poorly done when you think about it. Even if you believe all of it (which I don't). If he wanted to look at the effect of cold on post-op pain/healing he could have done that. If he wanted to prove cold would keep him from succumbing to MRSA, he could have done that without surgery, just injected himself. So even his n=1 is pathetic.

BTW, I find it hysterical that people are actually reporting miraculous benefits from "spot CT" of injured shoulders and feet. I mean really? We used to call that icing an injury. Sheez!! That Ramtha thing is too much.

Lerner said...

hi, Leighan. You might or might not have seen that Muata also has been posting here. I agree with you that focusing on pathways etc can be fruitless - though it can at times be interesting depending on the topic. And yes, it was a good interview.

Note to Muata: I see you even mention JKD. Bruce was probably the epitome of NEAT (along with lots of exercise), and had complained that he couldn't gain weight when he tried.

Lerner said...

well, Jack (and I think I know him well enough to call him 'Jack' now :) would say that he needed to make a big splash to draw the attention - and he was right in that, though incorrect in mixing two purported experiments as you say.

and wrt to past discussion on whether ice or ice water is harder to withstand, I did see that Hof has a page on his site detailing his challenge match against a Chinese ice man. They did something like 45 minutes in ice and then following that only 15 minutes with water added. That would tend to say that water saps the heat more - as you'd said in the past.

However, I'd add something to that. Sometimes when hiking in winter near a lake, I'll wade a little in it if there's an opening in the ice at the shore. After a minute or two it suddenly starts to feel painful like a thousand needles. But once I walked barefoot on snow at 10F degrees, and that hurt instantly. So when the ice gets very cold that might be worse - whereas the ice water temp is fixed at around 32F.

Galina L. said...

Looks like, JM is a good addition to my mental collection of examples how life often makes jokes out of people (you know, proponent of exercise who died early in life of heart attack while running around a block, macrobiotic diet promoter who died of cancer, now Jimmy who is alive but not the best poster person for a diet he advocates). Life is life.

Woodey said...

Interesting that you bring that up, I watch Deadliest Catch and they ran a special on close calls and people who had actually drowned in the Bering Sea. The water is so cold that without the body suit a person will only live about 5 minutes in the icy water. One captain whose brother had fallen in said that it is absolute pain; immediately your feet and hands go numb and soon you lose the ability to control your extremities and then you drown. The main thing he said is the pain is intense and the worst pain a person can feel.

David Blaine did a stunt where he encased himself in ice for 63hrs; he later said it took him about a month to be able to walk again.

From what you described about Jack's Ice challenge, your experience and the two examples above, I would have to say that the icy water is by far more unbearable than being in an ice bath; hence they only did it for 15 minutes. Bottom line to me is they are playing with fire and one of these days someone who follows Jack is going to either end up with frost bite in a place they don't want it or worse.

This is why I wish people like Kruse would just go away. The weight loss world is filled with two kinds of people; those that lose weight and make a living off it, or already thin people doing the same thing. Both are trying to make a buck off of the desperate by acting if they have the solution. I can't stand either type and wish people like Jack would just go away.

Snake oil and charm peddlers. ELMM there's the weight loss solution, problem solved. What's next on the list of problems that need answers?

Woodey said...

"I find it hysterical that people are actually reporting miraculous benefits from "spot CT" of injured shoulders and feet. I mean really? We used to call that icing an injury. Sheez!!"

This is why its better to rely on educated people in their fields of study. The masses do not understand something as simple as icing a sprain. So along comes someone like Jack talking manure science and has people thinking he's a revelation in cutting edge science. Ummm he is no more ground breaking then someone's great grannie putting an ice-bag on a bee sting back in the day when she was knee high to a grasshopper.

Princess Dieter said...

I was borin in '60 and lived in NYC until 1974. I can tell you right now--aside from those hot pretels BEING DA BOMB!!!--that the only times I saw youngish kids (ie, 11, 12, like me) riding the subway alone was coming home from school type of stuff, not joyriding.

And I loved the museums in NY (the best thing about NY in my mind), and that MoNH was amazing. I guess it probably still is. :) But I doubt they'd have let me in alone as a kid.

I can't recall any kid being in the museum alone--and I used to go as often as parents permitted, and to this day, I love me museums/planetariums. Kids were with parents/adults or on school trips with teachers/chaperones. Am I that much younger than Jack? Or was he so super disarming he disarmed museum ladies willy nilly?

I wonder if the museums still operate on donations. I do remember that in the 60s & 70s, even at the super-gajeezie MET, a place makes my heart glow and sing just to remember going there. Ahhhhhhh.......

Maybe he always had "da charm."

Princess Dieter said...

::snarf:::

Ooh, how can I learn to think fractally. Pretty! Will I have to sit in ice to do it?

; )

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hi Princess,

Those pretzels are still DA BOMB!! I taught in NYC a few years back and the train was prohibitive to a degree (read, I'm a cheapskate and couldn't justify $20 round trip vs. $4, 2X/week x 15 weeks -- besides I can grade papers on subway as easily as on train ;) ) I was quite shocked at how young some solo travelers, or kids with just "big" bro/sis who was only like 10, were. Going to school mostly. Never see any alone on subway w/o adult other times. Yeah, maybe he was just "da charm"er :D If I'm remembering correctly, most museum "admissions" are considered "donations" -- there's that fine print. Dunno. Could be wrong on that. Jack just turned 47 so born in '65, so believe it or not, he's younger than you (and me!). Thanks for confirming my childhood memory.

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