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Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Friday, May 11, 2012

The more I think about this ...

... the more I wonder, what was Jack Kruse doing going on the LC Cruise?   There was enough notoriety surrounding his TEDx talk, that Jimmy urged on his forum for members to lobby TEDx Nashville to for the speaking slot.  I can't imagine Jimmy Moore didn't watch it.  

So I'm putting myself in his shoes and thinking to myself, this isn't good news here.  I know I'd be a bit panicky if my first two leading headliners backed out relatively late in the game (*see footnote 1) but still in time for would be cruisers to cancel their plans were their heart set on meeting either of these two.  Given the popularity of Jack's podcast appearance and being the #1 vote-getter for Encore Week, of course Jack was the guy to call.  I would have!  Jack was quirky and eccentric at the time, but his bad behavior was limited to PH near as I can tell and nobody would be harmed by a little fun talk about how your leptin receptors can't process electrons from carbohydrates and such.  Score!  With Rosedale & Kruse to replace Gary, and Wheat Belly for Wolf, all seemed well in the LC world. 


But I, like Jimmy, have been on enough cruises, and even if not there are enough news reports, that one knows these ships worry most about (in no particular order):  terrorism, high crime on the high seas and/or jumpers and infectious diseases.  As I related in my last post on this matter, I have had personal experience with the latter.  On the second day of a 10 day cruise, we received the first reports of a norovirus breakout.  We purchased the water spa package (really nice therapy pools, steam rooms, saunas, hot tile lounges -- if you ever take a cruise get this!) but only got to use it those two days.  The next day, all warm tubs were battened down.  The buffets were clear wrapped and sterile staff served food.  Not to mention a fair bit of paranoia fearing that YOU will come down with this.  My husband did.  If you come down with this you quite literally don't know your head from your butt and they quarantine you for 24 hrs minimum after it's worked its way through your system.  On a 10 day cruise, if you contract it early, there's still time to enjoy, on a cruise like Magic with 3 ports?  You could miss pretty much the only reason for taking a cruise.  

If anyone goes on cruise forums they will learn that this norovirus is insidious and for the sake of publicity, it is kept very hush hush.  We were also not informed of very much as passengers, but we were very close to the ship reaching the level where we'd be quarantined and sent back.  These things tend to make the news from time to time, but even many of these fly under the radar because it is more common than one might think.  All trip long we kept getting "maybe the spa will open back up" ... never did.  While they did refund that expense,  there were no hot tubs to be had even in the free access areas which folks tend to like to enjoy on sea days.  Whether you like it or not, it's pretty much required to squirt with hand sanitizer like 10 times a day.  It's all a big mess.  Unless you have insurance (and I'm not sure how that all works), if your ship is quarantined you get the piddly port charges back for the places the ship didn't dock and that's about it as far as what they are required to do.  

So, I imagine had Carnival been informed of Kruse's "epic biohack" from Jan 9 of this year, they would have been legitimately concerned.  If Jack had really done this he could be a serious risk, especially in the cruise ship environment.  Now MRSA probably doesn't "hit" like the norovirus, but I imagine the publicity would be even worse to have several cases tied to your cruise ship later.   

Jimmy Moore knew, or should have known, more than a month ago of this potential issue.  And I choose my words carefully here because I don't think there was an issue because I don't believe the events of Jan 9 ever happened.  If I were in Jimmy's shoes (IIWIJS), however, one way or another, I would have addressed this.  I'm thinking that like the AHS12 disclaimers, there's got to be some clause in the LC Cruise papers that allows for changes in speakers or even cancellation of the whole dang conference if there are some extenuating circumstances.  This would come down to one of those % value deals and notorious as Jack is, one 45 min presentation out of 3 days wouldn't rise to the level.  I feel sorry for the cruisers who perhaps didn't get what they signed up for, but Carnival was likely not sweating this aspect much if any.  IIWIJS, when Jack went from eccentric to certifiable -- either liar or crazy dangerous to himself and others -- in front of an audience, I would have pulled the plug on his appearance on my cruise.  Period.  That he did not should be disconcerting to those who probably don't follow all this stuff and rely on his integrity to select presenters.  So,    IIWIJS, I would have probably just canceled his appearance and sent out notice to cruisers about the circumstances.  This qualifies as out of his control, it would not have damaged him or lost him any money (** see footnote 2), and I doubt many, if any, cruisers would have complained.  Many bought their tickets to see the Messiah, not Jack.  I think this would have risen Jimmy's stock as a clear thinking arbiter/organizer.  A win win unless Jimmy is in negotiations for next year's cruise to be Optimized.

I've been amazed at the reaction to the MRSA nonsense, and frankly, per the Gallier2 comment from FTA that Aging Hippie cited (warning, lots of profanity from the usual suspect), somehow us three see-you-next-Tuesdays were being unreasonable in our response that either way (true or fairy tale) this was unacceptable for anyone, let alone a neurosurgeon.  Jack Kruse should have been summarily dismissed from any official "community" events following that nonsense ... including the LC Cruise.   Had Jimmy been truly responsible to the cruisers, none of this would ever have happened.

And Jack was just interviewed live on FNC by Martha MacCallum.  Sigh.  


*  One has no idea what "a few months back"  from the January 6 announcement of the final lineup was for when Robb backed out.  At this point I'm more likely to err on Robb's side that he did that early on and the announcement was held off as he was the more major paleo draw

** I really get the idea most folks that go on this thing are doing it to meet up with friends.  The chance to meet or listen to LC celebs, probably not so much but I can see the draw.  

I think more folks should be upset with what the Harkness' reported were presented as weight loss success stories:

AndrewDimino Tuesday Sessions    Denise Minger, John Briffa, Jeff Volek, Andreas Eenfeldt, and Jackie Eberstein
The afternoon session started with several success stories from low carbers. This session was sponsored by Andrew Dimino, the owner of CarbSmart.com. Andrew went first, with his own weight loss and health gains. Next up was Dana Carpender (HoldTheToast.com), a lady who wrote one of the low-carb books (How I Gave up my Low-Fat Diet & Lost 40 Pounds) which I found very influential back when I was first starting my own low-carb lifestyle. Dana has lost another 20 pounds since she wrote that book. Following Dana, Amy Dungan (HealthyLowCarbLiving.com) related her success story, and was in turn followed by Vanessa Romero (HealthyLivingHowTo.com), Kim Eidson, Susan Winkler, and Kent Altena (AtkinsDietGeek.com).
Here I thought Andrew, Dana & Amy of CarbSmart would be presenting other success stories.  Or perhaps just Dana's since at least she's thin (but not healthy), but it is unbelievable that Andrew and Amy presented!  THAT I'd want my money back for.  

26 comments:

Tonus said...

I'm wondering what the fallout would've been if Jimmy had canceled Jack's appearance due to the MRSA dealio. Jack doesn't seem like the sort who would have taken that lying down.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

If he was worried over that, he could easily have put the weight of Carnival behind him by having someone at the company watch that video. Done.

Unknown said...

I think you are on to something, imo there are twists and turns to this case that lead to the highest corridors of power, we have to think GLOBALLY. Involvement by the Vatican or the Russians or both working in concert is not out of the question. If anyone should happen to speak to the FBI agent please ask him whether he has gotten the NSA on board because if he hasn't, he needs to get that done STAT, we need assets in a dozen different nations to crack this thing.

AL-209 said...

Sigh...why get involved in all this shit eve? Who cares? I can't speak for any of your other readers, but I always looked forward to your posts as they were about science. Now I don't get as excited when I see "Carb Sane (1)" in my google reader, because more often than not its a post regarding some obese charlatan or wacko I couldn't give a flying f**k about. Sure taking taubes out was good as he's peddling plausible sciencey stuff, but Kruse, Rosedale and jimmy Moore? It's getting a little yawnsome IMO..It's your blog and you can obviously do as you please, but I think I prefer Colpos approach of letting them start it, then taking them out. Or even better, Prof Andros approach, and not waste time with it all.. I much prefer reading about what's good for me, not about what's obviously a bunch of horse shit...

Woodey said...

"Due to an outbreak of Razwell virus.."

I hope I don't have to get inoculated. I so hate shots.:(

LeonRover said...

Razwell . . . . Roswell . . . . . Orwell ??

Hmmmmm . . . . .

Princess Dieter said...

Again, your blog, do your thing, agree with that. But I also would love to see you take a break from Kruze and co and do some great nutrition/science/critique/insights thing.

Not that you shouldn't continue to spotlight the scientifically off stuff that's put out by any in the nutrition community. We like that. I just think that it'd be good to let this conspiracy thing sort out--and it will--and you do what you do best: give us the science critique.

Mike deCock said...

For what it's worth, I'm new to the blog and have been appreciating these posts. After Kruse and company started pointing the finger at you, I started reading both the new and old posts and promptly hit the subscribe button. I'm sorry I shunned this blog for so long.

Unknown said...

Jack Says:
May 11th, 2012 at 10:08 am
@Chris Before my national Fox spot both anchors took my information down because they were floored that I had answer for obesity that espoused no drugs, fancy operations or lots of money. And the lunatics that did this too me…….think I am nuts? How crazy is that? It is the ultimate oxymoron. I will no longer focus on them at all……….I will focus on the people who want help to change to get better. They are my targets of change where I think most Starfish will be found. I feel like an American Indian must have when he saw a group of white men for the first time.

Unknown said...

Jack Says:
May 10th, 2012 at 10:45 am
@Jason thanks for the link and I will read your blog and take. I always like to see new starfish come here. Thank you for the kind words. I am very concerned about the bioterrorism and cyberstalking considering what is all over the Fox news stations today. I will be on the TV today and tomorrow national talking about the enforcement issues that we must have our officials impose for our collective safety. Cyber stalking and stealing an identity to falsify a terror threat is something we cant tolerate as a country.

ProudDaddy said...

I would be floored, too! If Jack has the answer for obesity, then he SHOULD be worshipped. However, somehow, I always thought that the answer would be coherent, but that's just me.

Rodri said...

Personally I find this whole soap opera quite amusing.

Having said that, after reading about this particular series of events I'll find it extremely hard to take any of these self-appointed health experts seriously from now on. This whole movement of "paleo", "low carb", "primal", "ancestral" or whatever else they call it, has become nothing but a cult, no better than veganism. Something that has great potential is becoming a bussiness opportunity that cashes on people's insecurities about health.

Evelyn, with all due respect, you'd be better off forgetting about the whole thing instead of polluting your blog with gossip. As it has been said above this blog is a great venue for sound critique about nutrition science, but by continuing this discussion you're just "feeding the animal" (pun intended). I understand that there have been some rather direct accusations, but they're just unfounded accusations by some crazy dude with a Messiah complex... nobody should take that seriously.

All the best!

EclecticKitchenEvolved said...

Wow! Seriously? Words fail me.

EclecticKitchenEvolved said...

Seriously? Again, no words...

Princess Dieter said...

How can I get the tiniest bit of that ego and self-confidence? Do I have to take crazy ice baths to adore myself like that? ; )

He's so strange.

And I will freely go on the record to say that I'd rather have gastric bypass than multiple hours-long ice-water baths. I can't bear cold water showers (except on the hottest, muggiest days when the a/c dies). No, no. I'd rather be obese.

foodteacher said...

I agree!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hey all, first off, welcome Rodri & Mike!

I'm quite sure there will be one more blog on this fiasco and then we'll go from there as I'd like nothing more than to get back to several posts, and a little side project for the blog. However, Jack's behavior, beginning with the Channel 5 statement and escalating with threats public and private and by himself or through his cohort Cottrell is now bordering on harassment. My reasoning for the blogging is to put all of this out in the public eye in one place. While I know I have nothing to worry about in this matter, I'll not stand and be fingered by people. If Jimmy is smart, he'll disassociate himself with Kruse and all of this and moderate out of his blog any people who insinuate it was me. My criticisms of Jimmy are separate and apart from those of Jack. It's an ironic comeuppance in a way that although LC'ers on his forum are complaining that all this discord came from paleo, that this episode is connected to low carb and Jimmy Moore. If you put yourself in my shoes knowing that I have little PUBLIC support and acknowledgement of the work I do here (you'd be surprised the private support I have) you might be able to understand the clusterf*ck this has been for the last 4 days or so. I see keeping this public so long as Jack is "going off" as essential. This episode has also resurrected the whole "mentally unstable stalker" crap and now we have Andreas Eenfeldt and Georgene Harkness in on the repeat-the-mantra crap. How ironic, because here we have Eenfeldt blogging on "rumor has it" for pretty serious allegations if true. What does this say about him, because since it's not true, he just defamed me. Oh and simply not naming me exactly does not provide cover for this behavior.

I'll try and get back to the more scientific content as soon as possible. But I cannot ignore efforts to take me down.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Unknown, can you email me links to and/or screenshots of these comments? I don't have access to a lot of FB stuff nor will I register on his forum.

HOW has he been cyberstalked? The media is absurd on this part. And identity theft? What.A.Joke.

Lesley Scott said...

"knowing that I have little PUBLIC support" - not that my 2 cents carries much weight in the nutrition/diet-osphere, but I totally support you & am happy to SHOUT ABOUT IT quite publicly! And I agree that all this passive aggressive behavior of pointing e-Fingers at you - but then pussying out by "not naming you" - is very sandbox & retarded. It's like, well TWICHOO Boys Club, ya don't really have science on yo' side so yeah, the "mentally unstable stalker" route, that's awesome. All they're missing is the "No Girls Allowed" hand-lettered sign on their secret clubhouse door. Honestly, if that's the best they can do, it's beyond pathetic IMO.

btw I was really glad Robb Wolf weighed in with his take on matters.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hi Lesley, I should have worded that more carefully. The public support from you and others here is substantial and much appreciated. Thank you. I was referring to the fact that if one were to go down a list of bloggers and such in this community, you would not find many commenting publicly in my defense. It is understandable, I get it. Many have supported me privately for quite some time now. But one thing positive about this fiasco is more are doing so, some still behind the scenes, others more publicly. That little tweet from Robb meant a lot as have the many emails of assurances -- even from people I've criticized here -- of the I'm behind you, I believe you had nothing to do with this, etc.etc. nature I've received.

Thanks again for reading and contributing so much here. It means more than you know. And that goes for the rest of you regulars here, new and old, and you know who you are.

Sanjeev said...

> rather have gastric bypass than multiple hours-long ice-water baths

IMHO most people could get used to cold exposure. Probably the only time you could not is for getting to sleep.

I had been the type of kid that dressed up so warmly I looked like a sphere. But my last year of full time school I rode a bike the whole year, including winter, through snow & a couple of -20C days. When it went below -5 I wore extra padding but most of the time it was shorts & tee shirts.

> take crazy ice baths to adore myself

You NEVER know how people feel, just their performance. I had a great, happy-go-lucky buddy who never EVER EVER seemed unhappy. Until he committed suicide in July 89.

Leighan said...

On the topic of people talking about moving back to science, here is a brilliant series of articles about Insulin which you may be interested in if you havent seen already:

www.weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

That is part 1 of 5, next parts have links at bottom.

Leighan said...

There are a lot of studies cited there too which you may be interested in.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Hi Leighan, James Krieger did a FANTASTIC job with that series, and I linked to it here many times. If you use the search box on the upper right and enter "Insulin wars" that should keep you busy for a while :D You see, Jimmy did one of his data dump pile ons on this topic. At least the respondents were more civil to that one.

Leighan said...

Ahh ! I am relatively new here so hadn't seen it ! I shall check out the Insulin Wars :P

Unknown said...

I'm getting them from his crap blog in the comments section. You don't have to register or read that crap article. I just went to the comments section and looked at some of his comments. They're stunning in their stupidity. I still can't believe this guy has an advanced degree of any type. He is about as ineffective of a communicator (in print) as I've ever seen.

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