Exercise & Fat Mobilization ... and starving cells & hunger
There's no denying it, TWICHOO is down to a broken toothpick where the science is concerned. (See here for the toothpick reference if you're a newer reader.) The remaining claim supporting TWICHOO rests on the action of insulin on the fat cell. Insulin does indeed act to stimulate esterification and suppress lipolysis, favoring deposition and accumulation of triglycerides in fat cells. They even teach this stuff in some medical schools I'm told! So these days it's all about how carbs make you hungry and overeat (although overeating is so inane) because they stimulate insulin which traps all your fat calories in your fat starving the rest of your cells of energy. Now, that part's not true, but let's for the sake of argument assume it is. What, then, would cause you to lose weight and not be hungry? Why anything that favors net mobilization of fat stores -- that is stimulates lipolysis and fatty acid release from fat cells. This will raise the circulating free fatty acid, NEFA, levels and make them available in abundance to your cells. Hunger be gone! It's all about the balance of the TAG/FFA cycle.
Well, if that is the case, then exercise would be THE most effective means of preventing or reversing fat accumulation. Hands down. No argument. Oh ... and it wouldn't make you hungry, quite the opposite, because your body is awash in fatty acids. Work with me here TWICHOOB's. If you have your hypothesis, you must fit it or apply it to all situations. Exercise is the ultimate TWICHOOB miracle weight loss dream. Because if anything that works to put fat into fat cells is fattening, then anything that works to get fat out of fat cells is de-fattening.
Role of triglyceride-fatty acid cycle in controlling fat metabolism in humans during and after exercise
(I have the full text of this, email me: carbsane at gmail dot com, and I'll share via Google Docs)
So first, a quick recap of the TAG/FA cycles. Below is the augmented diagram from Reshef et.al. I use the plural because we have an intracellular cycle (inside the fat cell) and an extracellular cycle (liver recycles to VLDL and sends back to the fat tissue).
Let's focus on the internal cycle for a moment. I've isolated it at right, and labeled the processes involved. Stored triglycerides undergo lipolysis and are broken down to glycerol and fatty acids. Fat cells (in humans at least) mostly lack the enzyme required to use the glycerol as a source of glycerol-3-phosphate for the re-esterification process so it is all released into circulation. Therefore, glycerol release and blood levels of glycerol in the post-absorptive (fasted) state are regularly used to assess lipolysis rates in adipose tissue. The fatty acids have two fates -- they can also be released into circulation (green), or they can be re-esterified back into triglycerides (blue). Thus, the proportion of fatty acids that are mobilized vs. re-esterified can be determined by comparing changes in glycerol levels vs. fatty acid levels.
So in this study, they used radioactive tracers to assess lipolysis rates in response to exercise and in recovery. Subjects were 5 body-weight and metabolically normal men in their mid-twenties. The exercise was fairly low intensity (40% max O2 consumption) for 4 hours on a treadmill -- I think this qualifies for "long and slow" -- followed by 2 hours of recovery. How'd you like to be a volunteer for this?! When stored triglycerides undergo lipolysis, the glycerol released is not used to re-esterify fatty acids because adipocytes in humans largely lack the enzyme to do so. In addition to lipolysis and mobilization rates, the rate of fat utilization for energy -- e.g. fatty acid oxidation -- was also measured.
The rate of lipolysis increased 3-fold in 30 minutes and continued to increase to 5-fold of baseline by 4 hours. Lipolysis decreased rapidly during the first 20 minutes of recovery then the rate of decline slowed, and at 2 hours recovery remained elevated slightly more than 2X baseline. Fatty acids in circulation (mobilized) followed the lipolysis pattern (though it would appear more consistently), but interestingly enough there was an "overshoot" spike in levels during the first 10 minutes of recovery after which they rapidly declined for the first hour before stabilizing out during the second hour of recovery -- the 2-hour recovery levels of NEFA look to be approximately 2.5X baseline.
Interestingly the respiratory quotient (RQ) fell slightly during exercise -- from an average of 0.92 to 0.83 -- and remained at around 0.83 during recovery. Whoa there! Back up the bus ... see that? To refresh, the RQ is a measure of metabolic fuel source where an RQ of 1 would reflect total carb burning while an RQ of 0.7 would be total fat burning. These normal healthy males were burning carbs at rest and even during 4 hours of mild exercise with abundant fatty acids in supply mobilized from fat, and NO dietary glucose, they did become "fat burners", but still were burning some carbs after four hours. But to the degree they became "fat burners", this is not dependent upon fatty acid availability in circulation, because they kept burning the same proportion of fat for at least two hours after the exercise while fatty acid levels plummeted and leveled off. Things that make you go hmmmmm.
It's worth noting that total energy expenditure declined in recovery but remained about 20% above resting for the duration of the recovery period. The measured fatty acid oxidation rate rose to 10-fold over the 4 hour exercise period, and fell rapidly to about 1.5-1.75X baseline during recovery. The figure at right shows the measured FA oxidation rate (dark circles) during exercise.
So, back to the TAG/FA cycle. At rest, 70% of fatty acids released from triglyceride undergo re-esterification. SEVENTY PERCENT. There can be no doubt that lipolysis is NOT rate limiting for utilization of fatty acids for fuel. Now of that 70%, about 17% is re-esterified within the fat cell in the rested-fasted state (the article states it is 20% of the fatty acids released therefore by my math this means of 1/6th of FA's created by lipolysis, however 20% makes more sense for the other math in the article. I think this is because they mix between percents of amounts vs. percents of rates.)
Now the open circles on the plot represent a calculated rate of fatty acid oxidation if the re-esterification rate remained constant during exercise. In other words, if the increased lipolysis resulted in the same proportion -- roughly 83% -- of liberated fatty acids were mobilized, and of those 57% were recycled extracellularly leaving 30% to be oxidized. The difference (shaded area) was because exercise markedly altered the re-esterification rate: rest = 70%, 30 min exercise = 25%, next 3.5 hours exercise = 35%. In recovery, the body goes into recycling overdrive to stop the flooding of blood with NEFA. Re-esterification jumped to 90% during the first 30 minutes before settling back down to near resting values, 75%, by the 2-hour mark. The overshoot of excess mobilized fatty acids no longer needed to sustain activity apparently stimulates, in some fashion, the re-esterification pathway. Overall, as stated in the caption, the changes in re-esterification rate account for 50% of the difference between calculated oxidation rate and the oxidation rate actually measured. Lipolysis and even mobilization does not dictate "fat burning".
The authors address intracellular vs. extracellular re-esterification. During exercise, the intracellular rate of re-esterification more than doubled, but accounted for only ~ 12% of fatty acids liberated by lipolysis due to the even greater increase in lipolysis rate. The intracellular recycling rate remained reduced in recovery. This is important folks, because post exercise your fat cells don't "go wild" to trap fats within, rather almost 90% of the recycling occurs outside the fat tissue. Comparing rates, the extracellular recycling was 62% of mobilized NEFA at rest, 20-25% during exercise, 72% first 30 min recovery, and fell to 65% during remaining recovery.
Although an increase in NEFA for energy is required during activity, the changes in lipolysis do not appear to be the ultimate controller of the "rapid response". As the authors note:
Lastly, the TAG/FA cycle is a "futile cycle" of sorts. It requires energy to convert fats from esterified form to free form back to esterified form, rinse and repeat. An interesting "metabolic advantage" of exercising might be the energy cost of this cycle. Note at rest it's quite low, it approximately doubled with low intensity exercise, but increased almost 6-fold in recovery. Not a lot, but considering this was the type of exercise (would be interesting to see what happens with shorter bouts) that could otherwise be "NEAT" movement, it could add up to something at least as significant as the metabolic advantage calculated for gluconeogenesis requirements with low carbing.
OK .... this is getting long, but one cannot come across a study such as this and not comment on the various theories circulating out there in the paloleo community (this is what I'll call the low carb faction in the paleoish community).
To all TWICHOOB's who still believe in lipophilia, this study demonstrates that more than anything else, exercise should make you lean and keep you lean. It clearly tilts the balance of the TAG/FA cycle to the release side, and the majority of the recycling occurs outside the fat tissue. Whether it is taken back up, then, depends on the energy state of the organism. I've got some very recent work by Keith Frayn's group that shows VLDL does tend to be taken up for longer term storage by gluteofemoral fat ... and this may well explain why women tend to have better clearance of these particles.
Then you have the Peter/Hyperlipid, J. Stanton/Gnolls and Taubes theory that you're not hungry on low carb diets because your cells are "eating" fatty acids that are available in abundance to your cells due to low insulin. If that is the case, then how is it that (paraphrase) "exercise is useless for weight loss and it only makes you hungry"?? At the very least, IF your cells were starving before, because of all the locked up fat, they aren't during exercise, and they remain "well fed" for at least two hours afterwards. By their theories, exercise should blunt hunger.
And lastly we have the whole metabolic flexibility, wanna be a fat-burner, mitochondrial dysfunction crowd spearheaded by J.Stanton & Peter D. I'm not going to go into that theory which just has no basis in the science or common sense. Suffice it to say this study can be added to the heap of evidence against impaired mitochondria causing obesity ... or do I have that theory wrong?
Is there anything actionable in this post? Well, exercise and don't consume excess energy the rest of the day, and your fat cells will empty out!
Well, if that is the case, then exercise would be THE most effective means of preventing or reversing fat accumulation. Hands down. No argument. Oh ... and it wouldn't make you hungry, quite the opposite, because your body is awash in fatty acids. Work with me here TWICHOOB's. If you have your hypothesis, you must fit it or apply it to all situations. Exercise is the ultimate TWICHOOB miracle weight loss dream. Because if anything that works to put fat into fat cells is fattening, then anything that works to get fat out of fat cells is de-fattening.
Role of triglyceride-fatty acid cycle in controlling fat metabolism in humans during and after exercise
(I have the full text of this, email me: carbsane at gmail dot com, and I'll share via Google Docs)
So first, a quick recap of the TAG/FA cycles. Below is the augmented diagram from Reshef et.al. I use the plural because we have an intracellular cycle (inside the fat cell) and an extracellular cycle (liver recycles to VLDL and sends back to the fat tissue).
Let's focus on the internal cycle for a moment. I've isolated it at right, and labeled the processes involved. Stored triglycerides undergo lipolysis and are broken down to glycerol and fatty acids. Fat cells (in humans at least) mostly lack the enzyme required to use the glycerol as a source of glycerol-3-phosphate for the re-esterification process so it is all released into circulation. Therefore, glycerol release and blood levels of glycerol in the post-absorptive (fasted) state are regularly used to assess lipolysis rates in adipose tissue. The fatty acids have two fates -- they can also be released into circulation (green), or they can be re-esterified back into triglycerides (blue). Thus, the proportion of fatty acids that are mobilized vs. re-esterified can be determined by comparing changes in glycerol levels vs. fatty acid levels.
So in this study, they used radioactive tracers to assess lipolysis rates in response to exercise and in recovery. Subjects were 5 body-weight and metabolically normal men in their mid-twenties. The exercise was fairly low intensity (40% max O2 consumption) for 4 hours on a treadmill -- I think this qualifies for "long and slow" -- followed by 2 hours of recovery. How'd you like to be a volunteer for this?! When stored triglycerides undergo lipolysis, the glycerol released is not used to re-esterify fatty acids because adipocytes in humans largely lack the enzyme to do so. In addition to lipolysis and mobilization rates, the rate of fat utilization for energy -- e.g. fatty acid oxidation -- was also measured.
The rate of lipolysis increased 3-fold in 30 minutes and continued to increase to 5-fold of baseline by 4 hours. Lipolysis decreased rapidly during the first 20 minutes of recovery then the rate of decline slowed, and at 2 hours recovery remained elevated slightly more than 2X baseline. Fatty acids in circulation (mobilized) followed the lipolysis pattern (though it would appear more consistently), but interestingly enough there was an "overshoot" spike in levels during the first 10 minutes of recovery after which they rapidly declined for the first hour before stabilizing out during the second hour of recovery -- the 2-hour recovery levels of NEFA look to be approximately 2.5X baseline.
It's worth noting that total energy expenditure declined in recovery but remained about 20% above resting for the duration of the recovery period. The measured fatty acid oxidation rate rose to 10-fold over the 4 hour exercise period, and fell rapidly to about 1.5-1.75X baseline during recovery. The figure at right shows the measured FA oxidation rate (dark circles) during exercise.
So, back to the TAG/FA cycle. At rest, 70% of fatty acids released from triglyceride undergo re-esterification. SEVENTY PERCENT. There can be no doubt that lipolysis is NOT rate limiting for utilization of fatty acids for fuel. Now of that 70%, about 17% is re-esterified within the fat cell in the rested-fasted state (the article states it is 20% of the fatty acids released therefore by my math this means of 1/6th of FA's created by lipolysis, however 20% makes more sense for the other math in the article. I think this is because they mix between percents of amounts vs. percents of rates.)
Now the open circles on the plot represent a calculated rate of fatty acid oxidation if the re-esterification rate remained constant during exercise. In other words, if the increased lipolysis resulted in the same proportion -- roughly 83% -- of liberated fatty acids were mobilized, and of those 57% were recycled extracellularly leaving 30% to be oxidized. The difference (shaded area) was because exercise markedly altered the re-esterification rate: rest = 70%, 30 min exercise = 25%, next 3.5 hours exercise = 35%. In recovery, the body goes into recycling overdrive to stop the flooding of blood with NEFA. Re-esterification jumped to 90% during the first 30 minutes before settling back down to near resting values, 75%, by the 2-hour mark. The overshoot of excess mobilized fatty acids no longer needed to sustain activity apparently stimulates, in some fashion, the re-esterification pathway. Overall, as stated in the caption, the changes in re-esterification rate account for 50% of the difference between calculated oxidation rate and the oxidation rate actually measured. Lipolysis and even mobilization does not dictate "fat burning".
Thus most of the change in the percentage of released fatty acids that were reesterified during exercise and recovery could be attributed to changes in extracellular cycling.If I were going to take a myopic view of this, exercise is amazingly effective to reduce fat tissue mass. It mobilizes the heck out of fatty acids, and when the time comes to re-esterify them, they are re-esterified outside the fat tissue! Ahhh ... but the liver does eventually "return to sender" in the form of VLDL. Got another figure for you. The open circles are the rate of fatty acid "delivery" to circulation and the dark circles are the rates of fatty acid oxidation. This graphic makes it perfectly clear that fatty acid availability does not dictate fat burning. Furthermore:
At all times there was more than enough plasma FFA available to provide all substrate for fatty acid oxidation....... even in these "metabolically inflexible" men with high fasting RQ's who must have been voraciously hungry as their cells starved. But while we're on carbs, let's talk glucose levels for a moment. Plasma glucose levels were 5mm baseline (90 mg/dL), decreased steadily during exercise to 4mm (72 mg/dL), and remained lowered in recovery.
At rest almost all of the glucose released from the liver is metabolized (<15% recycling ), so that changes in availability of glucose during exercise must entirely result from changes in the rate of production.Low grade exercise reduces glucose output from the liver. Interesting that. OK, some excerpts from the discussion, with apologies that some of these are repetitive:
At rest, ~70% of all fatty acids released during lipolysis were reesterified. During the first 30 min of exercise, that value dropped to 25%, whereas total fatty acid release via triglyceride hydrolysis tripled (Figs. 3 and 5). This coordinated response allowed a sixfold increase in FFA availability for oxidation. By itself the sharp decrease in percent reesterification effectively doubled the number of FFA available for energy metabolism in working muscles during exercise and could account for more than one-half of total fatty acid oxidation (Fig. 4). Immediately at the cessation of exercise almost 90% of fatty acids released from lipolysis were reesterified. This dramatic increase in percent reesterification was a major reason for the rapid fall in FFA concentration.Firstly, this is huge! This demonstrates that the level of fatty acids is determined by the balance of two processes that are controlled separately -- lipolysis & re-esterification -- and in times of high demand, moreso by drastic reductions in recycling (or "fixing") back to triglycerides than by lipolysis.
Although an increase in NEFA for energy is required during activity, the changes in lipolysis do not appear to be the ultimate controller of the "rapid response". As the authors note:
Had the percentage of fatty acids reesterified in the recovery period stayed at the value during exercise (25-30%), plasma FFA concentration would have risen to a level that would have far exceeded the binding capacity of albumin.The rapid changes in re-esterification are critical to keep NEFA levels in check. Normally, something like a tenth of a percent of fatty acids in circulation are actually "free", as even what we refer to as "free" are bound to the protein albumin. If we exceed that capacity, then there would indeed be more "free" fatty acids that have markedly lower solubity in water and could present problems (albumin bound fatty acids are technically a lipoprotein, to consider these dissolved is technically incorrect, but a reasonable simplification for the discussion of lipid transport in circulation). Further to the importance of changes in re-esterification rate: (note I subbed "lipolysis rate" for "Ra glycerol" as glycerol release is the marker for lipolysis rate)
Although the initial lipolytic response to changes in energy requirements at the onset of exercise and recovery was rapid, the maximum adaptive response lagged behind. [Lipolysis rate] continued to rise throughout exercise despite a constant rate of energy expenditure after the first 10 min. At the beginning of recovery the percentage decline in [lipolysis rate] was much less than the percentage decline in energy expenditure, and 2 h after stopping [lipolysis rate] had not yet returned to the resting level.Bottom line, it appears NEFA levels are far more tightly controlled at the recycle point than the supply point. At rest and during exercise:
... the rate of [extracellular] recycling appears to be predominantly passively regulated, reflecting the balance between the actively regulated processes of lipolysis and oxidation.By passively regulated they are referring to the fact that re-esterification in the liver seems to correlate directly with the fatty acid concentration/flux through the liver whereas fatty acid levels are the result of the difference between lipolysis and oxidation rates. I would note that this was a 1990 paper, a period where glyceroneogenesis was flying under the radar, and as stated in the article, glucose was considered to be the necessary source of glycerol-3-phosphate for esterification. Indeed despite the fact that re-esterification rates within the fat cells more than doubled as glucose levels decreased during exercise, they remark that the low percent of re-esterification in the fat cells is due to the low glucose supply. What we now know to be the case, is that the same hormones that stimulate mobilization in adipose tissue also regulate glyceroneogenesis in adipose tissue and the liver to sustain the degree of re-esterification required. In any case at the time of this article:
In contrast to the situation described for rest and exercise in which the liver may passively reesterify a constant fraction of delivered FFA, during recovery both the absolute and relative rate of reesterification of released fatty acids increased dramatically, despite a decrease in the delivery of FFA to the liver as plasma concentration fell. One plausible explanation is thatthere was accelerated clearance and reesterification of FFA in peripheral adipose tissue, but the signal for this type of peripheral clearance and reesterification is unclear. It is also unclear why clearance and reesterification of plasma FFA by adipose tissue would occur at an accelerated rate in the absence of a change in the rate of intracellular TG-FA recycling. Thus an increased efficiency of reesterification within the liver cannot be excluded.To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what to make of that paragraph. I'm tempted to largely ignore the "thinking out loud" given how much more is now known about the TAG/FA cycle. In the next paragraph, however, they lay out a case for the obvious -- something even Taubes acknowledges in his lectures -- re-esterification is "regulated" by the need for it, and the need for re-esterification is "regulated" by the energy state of the organism. If mobilized fatty acids are not needed and used for energy, they are recycled. Simple.
Lastly, the TAG/FA cycle is a "futile cycle" of sorts. It requires energy to convert fats from esterified form to free form back to esterified form, rinse and repeat. An interesting "metabolic advantage" of exercising might be the energy cost of this cycle. Note at rest it's quite low, it approximately doubled with low intensity exercise, but increased almost 6-fold in recovery. Not a lot, but considering this was the type of exercise (would be interesting to see what happens with shorter bouts) that could otherwise be "NEAT" movement, it could add up to something at least as significant as the metabolic advantage calculated for gluconeogenesis requirements with low carbing.
OK .... this is getting long, but one cannot come across a study such as this and not comment on the various theories circulating out there in the paloleo community (this is what I'll call the low carb faction in the paleoish community).
To all TWICHOOB's who still believe in lipophilia, this study demonstrates that more than anything else, exercise should make you lean and keep you lean. It clearly tilts the balance of the TAG/FA cycle to the release side, and the majority of the recycling occurs outside the fat tissue. Whether it is taken back up, then, depends on the energy state of the organism. I've got some very recent work by Keith Frayn's group that shows VLDL does tend to be taken up for longer term storage by gluteofemoral fat ... and this may well explain why women tend to have better clearance of these particles.
Then you have the Peter/Hyperlipid, J. Stanton/Gnolls and Taubes theory that you're not hungry on low carb diets because your cells are "eating" fatty acids that are available in abundance to your cells due to low insulin. If that is the case, then how is it that (paraphrase) "exercise is useless for weight loss and it only makes you hungry"?? At the very least, IF your cells were starving before, because of all the locked up fat, they aren't during exercise, and they remain "well fed" for at least two hours afterwards. By their theories, exercise should blunt hunger.
And lastly we have the whole metabolic flexibility, wanna be a fat-burner, mitochondrial dysfunction crowd spearheaded by J.Stanton & Peter D. I'm not going to go into that theory which just has no basis in the science or common sense. Suffice it to say this study can be added to the heap of evidence against impaired mitochondria causing obesity ... or do I have that theory wrong?
Is there anything actionable in this post? Well, exercise and don't consume excess energy the rest of the day, and your fat cells will empty out!
Comments
So your cells aren't starving for fat fuel during and shortly after exercise (or for a resting state in the obese, for that matter). How does this translate to not being hungry? Couldn't the elusive obesity mechanism be related to a disconnect between hunger and cellular energy state?
How did this study debunk the idea of impaired mitochondrial function? Did it show that the preobese, obese, and formerly obese burn NEFAs at the same rate as the perpetually thin?
I know I must be misunderstanding a lot of this stuff, but not all of your readers have a degree in physiology. How about dumbing this down for those of us who are at sea?
Regards, as always.
"Couldn't the elusive obesity mechanism be related to a disconnect between hunger and cellular energy state?"
I certainly think that's more than possible!
"How did this study debunk the idea of impaired mitochondrial function? Did it show that the preobese, obese, and formerly obese burn NEFAs at the same rate as the perpetually thin?"
It isn't a thorough debunking, but a big stink was made about how in one paper, the so-called preobese and formerly obese had high fasting RQ's that were supposedly indicating some impairment of mitochondrial ability to burn fat. For starters it makes no sense that once obese these dysfunctional mitos magically become super burners (the obese in that paper had rather low RQ's) -- that has nothing to do with this paper. But here these lean young metabolically undamaged men had fasting RQ's averaging 0.92 -- on par with an RQ's of the post obese "damaged" people. And yet with activity, their fatty acid oxidation ramped up nicely -- so it CAN'T be a capacity issue, their mitochondria responded just fine and started burning fatty acids as they became more available (while still burning a fair amount of carb b/c RQ was nowhere near 0.7)
If there's anything else I can explain better feel free to ask and I'm happy to respond. I'm afraid right now my sarcasm gene is overexpressing and I'm in another one of those moods of incredible disbelief about the sheer volume of total made up crapola being passed off as science and high-minded hypothesizing in the low carb community. It is making me sick and making taping the narration for my GT piece difficult -- the last thing I want to do is sound as annoyed as I am! LOL
An interesting analysis. It seems to me that presenting an energy balance during each phase ie contribution from all sources (plasma NEFA, plasma glucose, muscle TG , muscle glycogen) would be a clearer way of showing how much fat is actually burned. That the authors used a work-around ie re-esterification perhaps suggests difficulty in establishing the contribution from muscle TG’s. Is muscle TG contribution well understood, significant in this case? See Fig 9.9 in Keith Frayn’s textbook at http://bcs.wiley.com/he-bcs/Books?action=resource&bcsId=5402&itemId=1405183594&resourceId=20824 for energy partition at two intensities. The 2 intensities given in the chart are below (25%) and above (65%) the study and also for a shorter period.
@PDaddy, As I said, this study doesn't debunk that theory fully. But many others have ... thorough reviews of the literature that conclude mitochondrial impairment leading to impaired fat burning is not identified as a cause for obesity. In the formerly obese they had to be fat burning up a storm to become so ... so now they're left with damaged mitochondria as a result? Regain seems far more impacted by lower metabolic rate requiring lower intake be sustained (compared to what the person was used to eating for years prior), metabolic rate may be lower compared to someone who had never been obese due to adaptation, and/or leptin levels may have fallen too low from shrinking fat cells.
In good science one takes observations then formulates a hypothesis, then tests the hypothesis. I'm not aware of any information showing that mitochondrial dysfunction is more prevalent in obesity prone cultures. RQ is very much influenced by diet and energy state. I've seen many papers measuring high RQ in the obese, in direct contradiction to that one paper. Indeed if memory serves, I've yet to find another study that showed obese with substantially lower RQ's than pre/post or lean controls, etc.
Personally I think RQ is irrelevant to weight gain, loss or maintenance -- it only tells you that if you expend 2000 calories in a day maybe 80% comes from carbs and 20% from fat, or 80% from fat and 20% from carbs. At the end of the day, if you've eaten 3000 calories, 1000 of those calories are going to be stored as glycogen or fat.
This notion of being a "fat burner" is a scam! Especially if one is eating a load of fat, because they're not burning all of it and we all know a famous person who regained a lot of weight doing that!
If I understand correctly you're wondering what amount of NEFA that is presumed to be oxidized might not have been b/c the muscle TG was used instead (at least partly?). I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to presume that muscle TG levels are relatively constant. I wonder if anyone knows of a study where they are measured in adapted low carbers in maintenance. Because high levels are found (and maintained) in trained athletes indicating continual replenishment of these local stores. Therefore it might be reasonable to assume that "net re-esterification" can be assessed by the difference of liberated - oxidized, though the actual re-esterification of the released NEFA may well be higher to replace muscle TG used for fuel. Hope that makes sense.
So, to overweight me, it makes sense that my mitochondria might be letting me down. The other possibility is that the regulatory mechanism doesn't recognize that there's plenty of fuel in the tank but is still calculating the requirements correctly, or both, and now I'm really confused!
I dunno, I'd love to get back to that metabolism series one of these days, but most of what I was finding about the formerly obese was the very short term after dieting. If that Biggest Loser study showed us anything, it was that the REE of the obese is extremely high, and even after weight reduction, it remained quite high despite supposed suppression beyond that predicted by body weight.
More later ...
In this and in other papers I have seen the argument made that exercise encourages biogenesis of mitochondria - i.e. more exercise equals more mitochondria equals more function.
On the other hand, I haven't found any papers yet studying obese, sedentary people on a prolonged 85% fat diet ( would you get ethics approval for such a diet? ).
"Skeletal muscle lipid deposition and insulin resistance: effect of dietary fatty acids and exercise"
http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/3/662.full.pdf
"In contrast, obese persons and persons with T2DM exhibit reduced mitochondrial efficiency and lipid turnover, which may facilitate the build up of deleterious lipid metabolites and encourage lipid peroxidation, which in turn can affect both insulin signal transduction and mitochondrial function (34, 36). Overall, reduced lipid turnover is a necessary component to any apparent lipotoxic effects on insulin signaling that may arise from IMTG accumulation. Under conditions of reduced lipid oxidation, there is an increased load of fatty acids on the mitochondrial membrane facilitating the entrance of neutral fatty acids into the mitochondrial matrix (37), where they are prone to lipid peroxidation. Studies have shown that there is a higher degree of lipid peroxidation within skeletal muscle of obese insulin-resistant persons (36). The peroxide products are highly reactive cytotoxic metabolites that damage DNA and proteins and further hinder mitochondrial oxidative capacity. This constitutes a vicious cycle, and it is currently unclear whether mitochondrial defects lead to IMTG accumulation or whether IMTG accumulation leads to mitochondrial defects."
Personally I think a sedentary person would probably do better to eat high carb low fat than the other way around. This notion that carbs are only for the super active is another myth I hope to bust through some day. Too many other things on my plate just now ...
In any event, I'm guessing you subscribe to the notion that we get fat because we eat too much. I'm curious as to why we do so. Homeostasis mechanisms I can understand. The significance of the AMP:ATP ratio, or whatever, is beyond me.
The study of the healthy young men and RQ knocks the idea of burning glucose = a sign of poor health and of de novo lipogenesis playing a major role in metabolism. If someone thinks it's only healthy to burn fat at rest then a thought hurdle is the idea of what happens to the carbs after ~2 hours, because you couldn't possibly be burning that many carbs then.
It could be more accurate is to say 'healthy is good aerobic metabolism, whether that comes from carbs or fat is irrelevant'. Low carb diets can facilitate that adaptation if you've got IR/T2D/etc, but afterwards it doesn't matter.
Let me know what you think and thanks for the interesting post Evelyn.
And is impossible to be a sedentary and go to a high carb diet without a dieting plan. You are hungry all the time. That is why people cannot eat high carbs without becoming obese or having high sugar levels or go to the gym.
If you eat high carb you cannot be 5 hours without eating. If you do so, you start to be terrible hungry and disconcerted.
In Greece, due the economic situation, some fathers cannot afford breakfast for their children. The result is that some children fain in class.
I really like your blog but no matter how many chemicals pathways you post but is not possible this is a good diet.
Then why can all the people who eat tons of carbs go 8 hours or more every night without dying in their sleep or waking up halfway through to top off their glucose stores?
If reduced obese eat too much and regain, leptin seems the likely culprit there, as it does for the reduction in REE for that matter. Leptin increases metabolic rate and suppresses hunger. Deflated fat cells --> reduced leptin --> reduced met rate and increased appetite. I'm not saying that IS what happens, but that this is plausible and supported by what we know about leptin, etc.
There's been a lot of discussion about which mito complexes are used for carbs vs. fats. These discussions ignore the action of UCP3 which seems to be more of a transport protein than an uncoupler to prevent FA buildup and peroxidation. I guess we could call this MD 2012 ;-)
I'm not the extrapolater here (not saying you are either). But those who point to Sisson and say just going from SAD to Primal will turn a 300 lb man into him ... those are the extrapolaters.
In case if you are guessing, I usually live comments in the defense of LC way of eating, but I don't see LC approach to a diet in a simplified way. Probably, people who faint from the lack of breakfast are not adopted to fast, but not everybody needs such adaptation.
High carb low fat seems like a recipe for disaster except for those who are naturally thin and / or athletic. Most dieters, even those using CICO end up eating moderate carbs and low fat to save calories. I read the blogs of many personal trainers and fitness pros, nearly all of them eat moderate carb levels to stay thin, especially the women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2650750/?tool=pubmed
I haven't delved into the topic, but this study discusses the role of ATH in insulin resistance, inflammation, lactate overproduction, MD and ER stress and that ATH is due to poor blood flow from too much fat (and atherosclerosis?).
The concept suggests that inhibition of adipogenesis and triglyceride synthesis by hypoxia may be a new mechanism for elevated free fatty acids in the circulation in obesity.
This jumped out at me from the abstract ... for obvious reasons given my near obsession with fatty acids ;)
High carb by percent is not a recipe for disaster. It's how Americans used to eat before this obesity epidemic, and how the Pima used to eat despite what Taubes misleads people to believe. No need to even invoke remote cultures like the Kitivans.
"The study of the healthy young men and RQ knocks the idea of burning glucose = a sign of poor health."
Mitochondria "burn" carbon-based molecules for fuel when fuel is needed. The fact that any of us can ever do more than sit around all day speaks to that we have more than enough mitochondrial capacity. Hope that makes sense.
Nice find Geoff!
Most people don't do much of anything though, and those who do often fool themselves about the intensity of their efforts, so the point is probably moot for 98% of the population.
Finally, here's an off topic obersvation regarding ELMM. When I was a kid, long before you were, there was only one "fleshy" lady in my known universe. A sedentary village lady? Nope, a farmer's wife. Everyone was always baking up a storm, except for a brief period of sugar rationing during WWII. Yet even said farmer's wife was not obese by today's definition. When you next visit the subject, I'd really be interested in your possible explanations.
On the subject of exercise and weight loss, they spend a couple of pages on this particular study:
"Dual-process action of exercise on appetite control: increase in orexigenic drive but improvement in meal-induced satiety1,2,3,4" by Neil A King, Phillipa P Caudwell, Mark Hopkins, James R Stubbs, Erik Naslund, and John E Blundell
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/4/921.full
As per the NROL4L summary: The study put several dozen overweight and obese people on a 500 calorie per day, 5 day per week exercise program, then tracked food consumed, weight changes, and body composition changes over a 12-week study.
On average, the participants lost 7 lbs, mostly from fat. But the range of the results was large. One extreme responder ate 1000 calories per day less and lost 31 lbs, without reporting any issues with hunger. In the middle, some responders ate more, but still managed to lose weight. And one of the unlucky nonresponders ate so much more that he/she gained 7 lbs.
So exercise worked for some of these people, and failed miserably for others. The $64K questions is Why? Unfortunately, the referenced article did not offer a clear answer.
But then the NROL4L author's mention another review paper by the same group of scientists which 'hints' at a possibility. Unfortunately, this review paper wasn't referenced clearly, so I couldn't find it. But I will repeat the NROL4L interpretation, which was that it might be due to differences in the proportions of fat and carbohydrate burned during (and after) exercise: they speculate that nonresponders tend to burn more carbs in response to exercise than the responders. Since the body can store a lot more fat than carbohydrate, it will more strongly defend carbohydrate depletion than fat depletion. So if you derive a relatively high proportion of your exercise calories from carbs, you will end up hungrier than if you derive a relatively high proportion of the extra calories from fat.
It seems like a tidy explanation. But I am guessing from your comments in this thread, you'd probably say it was BS, just more bad science??? Or is their interpretation of poor metabolic flexibility different than what you are referencing?
I was disappointed to see that measurements of satiety stopped at the 4hr point. My hunger compendation after long intensive exercise always occurs the next DAY.
Any further explanations for the responder/non-responder differences that you can flush out would be greatly appreciated.
Glycolysis inhibition by palmitate in renal cells cultured in a two-chamber system.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9374661
and this one is from the glucose > lactate department
Partial inhibition of fatty acid oxidation increases regional contractile power and efficiency during demand-induced ischemia
http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/59/1/143.abstract
in swines that is:)
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