Drama! Vegan v. LC
I can't help but weigh in on this this morning. It seems a vegan has come out with a new one: Low Carb Guru of the Month.
Yes, I'm aware that posting about this here puts me at risk for promoting such activity, but I'm going to take that risk. Why? Because Jimmy Moore has sought fit to respond and there are several things about this response that are worthy of being "called out".
First off, "the community" better be on alert. It's not enough for Jimmy to attempt to co-opt the Paleo movement, he's trying to take a ride on the WAPF, primal and real food (also whole food) gravy trains. This inclusion of WAPF, "real food" and primal is new. Inclusion of primal means one thing folks, and it's not trying to scrounge page hits from Don Matesz' Primal Wisdom. Jimmy's current diet is in no, let me repeat, NO way paleo, or even paleo-inspired. It's "real food" but no way whole food and I'm sorry but that fact means his diet is chock full of PROCESSED food. Paleolithic man did not have Philly cream cheese, Daisy sour cream, butter, coconut oil, etc. NO, I repeat NO, human culture has eaten 85% fat or anything near that ... yes, even the Inuit. It's "real food" but not whole food in the spirit of the real food movement. Ahem, there are still paleo/primal types hanging on his coattails and or holding hands moving forward. Wake up folks. Back to the videos, but first another to embed, his NuttyK lecture at LCDU:
This is the infamous "chocolate cake" talk where Jimmy equates protein to chocolate cake -- might as well be because of gluconeogenesis. This was so ridiculous it even caught the attention of his friend Regina Wilshire who wrote: So Much for Cake, Let Them Eat Steak. In it she chronicles Jimmy's weight woes through the years. What got me annoyed was the 100% Honesty nonsense at the end of Jimmy's response video. Really? He's been lying to his readers for years, for example the many cases I outlined here: Jimmy Moore: Unwavering Dishonesty, The Early Years. Be forewarned that many of the menus blog links in that post are no longer around as in response to this exposure, Jimmy deleted the entire blog. Bottom line: his weight didn't just creep back on over the years while he was doing all the right and same things. C'mon!
Jimmy seems to have taken a different tack lately -- highlight his critics (LOL, though he dare not respond to me with anything but T-shirts because I know the deal and have his number!). The vegan video has some easy targets in it that he chose to respond to. Here they are:
Umm, unfortunately Jimmy Moore is the most prominent name associated with low carb and therefore whether he's qualified or not, he's a guru. Vegan got the title wrong? They showed the book so can you say nit and pick?
I’m certainly no “guru” on low-carb; I blog and do podcasts My book is called 21 Life Lessons From Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb
Actually I'm willing to bet that while all LC diets are fairly high fat, Jimmy did not lose the initial weight on anything resembling the diet he's eaten for the past four or more years.
I didn’t lose my weight on low-carb/high-protein, it was high-fat
My book never became a bestseller and has sold a few thousand Nowhere in my book did I write “forget veggies, eat your meat”
It's good to hear not too many wasted money on his book. I'll give him that last one. Oh the dishonest horrors!
The “Jimmy In 2011″ pic was from April 2010 in Seattle, WA The “Jimmy…Early 2012″ photo was from the March 2010 Low-Carb Cruise The “Jimmy…Summer 2012″ photo was from March 2012 at PaleoFX The “Jimmy…A Few Months Ago” photo was from Dana Carpender’s Meet and Greet in Bloomington, IL in August 2010
Oh, OK. Yeah, I noticed the dates were wrong on the pictures too. But really Jimmy? Are you complaining he didn't use your true before pic from early 2012? What you are inadvertently highlighting is that indeed for much of the past 3 years you've been in significantly regained state, to say nothing of the other weight regains in prior years, or the fact that you were never "sensationally skinny" as your first book subtitle exclaims. I'm not sure if you realize this, but the pictures of "look at me now" in your rebuttal are far from exculpatory of how well low carb is working for you. That just is.
It wasn’t a “low carb fail” but rather some simple mistakes I was making in doing it
Your simple mistakes include supposedly overeating protein. Atkins was never NuttyK. You may save your webpire with this stuff for a while, but you will sacrifice any of the hard fought-for legitimacy that reasonable and responsible low carb diets have gained. And despite the perpetual martyrdom cries, Dr. Eric Westman is not exactly toiling away in anonymity at Podunk U (for example). Jimmy's example is a very sobering example of what might be in store for you should LC work for any length of time. And I'm not sure this is any sort of selling point even to the most desperate person who decides to try LC for the first time in hopes of being the next Jimmy Moore or Dana Carpender. And the mainstream medical establishment will NEVER take you seriously.
I’m not “getting rich selling low-carb diet books” by any stretch of the imagination
Well, you are earning some sort of living. Whether you are getting rich or not is immaterial. Only you know whether it's an honest living or not....
Oh ... like moi?! LOL
I don’t mind being “fair game” but you gotta get your facts straight first
The truth eluded the VegSource people in their write-up about their video as well, including these untruths:
Cry me a river. You may not have made a bleeping fortune because your product is faulty. But you've raked in thousands from promoting sketchy diet plans (remember Kimkins everyone?!) that required no "labor", and unquestionably promoting questionably low carb products for years.
I haven’t “sold millions of books” or “made a bleeping fortune” doing the work I do. It’s mostly a labor of love that barely pays my basic living expenses and not much else.
Most low-carbers aren’t “avoiding carbs and eating lots of meat!” That’s a mistaken and grossly ignorant stereotype. My own case notwithstanding, I wouldn’t say that most low-carb leaders have a problem with their weight. Many have managed their weight just fine following a healthy high-fat, low-carb diet. What I’m “selling” isn’t “very unhealthy” but rather for people to find what will work for them. If that’s a high-fat, low-carb, meat-based diet, then there’s nothing wrong with that. Unless you’re a rabid vegan apparently.
Well, I can think of a lot of low carbers, especially of the paleo bent, who do nothing but. Heck, Gary Taubes jokes in interviews about how his wife calls him Meat Man. Which LC leaders don't have a problem with their weight who previously did? Do I really need to list these again?
As to the longterm healthfulness of NuttyK, you can put all the disclaimers you like, as can Volek and Phinney and Attia. There's no long term data to support it either way because NOBODY EATS THIS WAY LONG TERM except for the very (very) rare epileptic child and ....
And I have to leave you with one more video if you haven't yet seen it. You see, after Jimmy "went Paleo" along with his crusade against LC food manufacturers like Julian Bakery and Dreamfields, he gained weight and was losing business from those former podcast sponsors. He proudly announced how he would never resort to promoting products like Body by Vi with all of the "bad ingredients", then months later his podcasts and blog sported ads/sponsorships from this Leaner Living MRP. Enjoy!
Lastly, Jimmy wrote:
When people attempted to correct these blatant errors in their portrayal of me in the comments section of the YouTube video, their comments were summarily deleted by the VegSource admin within minutes. Nice.
Oh the irony Jimmy. When's the last time you allowed people to point out blatant errors on your blogs? You weighed 248 lbs in April of 2011. You weighed under 250 from some time mid-to-late 2008 through at least 6 months of 2009 . Yet you repeat over and over how you haven't weighed under 250 for 5 years (a claim that fits in with the vegan video mind you, if only a sampling of pics is used ...). I will allow comments pointing out any blatant errors in my video above. Got any? I won't censor you.
In the end, this video by a vegan gets a few details wrong, but the overarching message unfortunately correct. Mind you it doesn't make the case for a 180 twist to veganism, but Jimmy is fond of pictures worth more than 1000 words ..... LC has been failing Jimmy Moore for a long time, or he's been failing it (though that would be a tougher case to make since he's been pretty steadfast LC all along). He has been unable to maintain any weight loss longer than a month before regaining, or for that matter any sort of steady weight for more than a few months.
But you didn't get this far for the science did ya? Just funnin!
In the end, this video by a vegan gets a few details wrong, but the overarching message unfortunately correct. Mind you it doesn't make the case for a 180 twist to veganism, but Jimmy is fond of pictures worth more than 1000 words ..... LC has been failing Jimmy Moore for a long time, or he's been failing it (though that would be a tougher case to make since he's been pretty steadfast LC all along). He has been unable to maintain any weight loss longer than a month before regaining, or for that matter any sort of steady weight for more than a few months.
But you didn't get this far for the science did ya? Just funnin!
Comments
So one question remains: Was it the keto-adaptation or the calorie-cutting that has worked in producing the weight loss success I’ve seen? If you ask me, I say WHO CARES?!"
Now, you could disagree with Jimmy about the reasons for his change of appetite (and it seems to me that no-one can ever know till they've been Jimmy Moore), but it seems to me he's finally landed right-side-up.
I don't care if he got there by sacrificing frogs in a monkey suit while listening to Andy Williams records played backwards, I would still contend that he's finally achieved the one thing that matters the most in his case.
He might even be able to eat real food now.
Oh, thanks for posting about his biggest lie. For 8 years he was touting how his healthy blahblahblah diet was superior because he was never hungry. Guess that wasn't true.
Not only that, but his book is going to be about cholesterol levels. But in response to this recent vegan video he says he is not a guru. So why is he writing a book on how people should interpret their cholesterol levels, and who knows what else.
Twisting the truth to support their high fat cravings doesn't seem to be limited to Jimmy Moore either. The "Diet Doc" recently got caught displaying an edited diagram and passing it off as the researchers' original diagram.
From http://paleobuzz.com
----
It’s the Insulin, Stupid Dietdoctor.com
http://www.dietdoctor.com/its-the-insulin-stupid
Paleobuzz Note: The two images are actually not exact duplicates. The one on
dietdoctor.com, insulin2.jpg, has had labels altered without an explanation to
readers. Compare with the original image from the source at
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/retrieve/pii/S1550413112004536 :
http://download.cell.com/images/journalimages/1550-4131/PIIS1550413112004536.fx1.lrg.jpg
Sure, these are mice studies, but why distort the information provided by the
actual authors by photoshopping their image without note?
----
Looks like the Diet Doc would like to avoid the name "high fat" if it isn't represented well in animal studies. Rename what the researchers call "high fat" diet as "bad food", and "prove" his own point! Diet Doc and Jimmy Moore should do a comedy teamup!
Your comment is more of the rant than anything I've ever read on this blog. I think most of it goes over the simplistic insulin blamers' heads though.
This man is going to write about cholesterol levels? Based on what exactly? Having ridiculously high LDL levels he's dismissed as "large and fluffy" for years, described as "spectacular" and other such adjectives?
Only if it's low carb. I don't know how many podcasts I listened to where Jimmy would get up on his soap box and rant about how "healthy whole grains" weren't healthy. I guess they're not allowed to work for me. I'm so tired of hearing him say that he supports people finding what works for them and then just turns around and dumps on whole grains, too much protein, or carbs in general. He doesn't really want people to find what works for them. He wants people to eat low carb.
He doesn't even do that because otherwise he'd be doing DANDR to the letter. He'd at least be following Atkins' advice on long term carb restriction and thyroid, and/or his admonitions about the fat fast.
Also, I'd say Dayspring referring to his lipids as "nightmarish" is pretty damning as to the healthfulness of what he is indeed promoting. What else should people try -- "maybe it works for you!!"
Sigh ...
Typical christian from my experience.
His weight gain more than likely came from over eating a variety of differnt foods.
Currently, you can tell he has lowered his protein and increased his fat intake just my the make up of his body. But if he actually doing any exercise, I would be shocked. He is sadly lacking in muscle tone and his fat distribution is all around his abdomen.
He can claim all he wants that he is healthy, his appearance says just the opposite. It is with great saddness for me, as it was a guest on Jimmmy's show who helped me years ago, that Jimmy has devolved so dramatically. Also, I get no pleasure with this observation, but I do not think Jimmy will be with us much longer.
If you want to look youthful and you are a man you do need to exercise, women can get away with lack of exercise a little more because they naturally tend to have less muscle mass.
I remember reading that on his blog and saying to myself, "no freaking way Moore was ever that low in body fat." If he was 11% body fat, what difference would it make that he never broke the 200 mark? He'd be rippling with muscles if he were 11% body fat.
I think JM must have really huge appetite, I wouldn't be able to go through even half of his keto-breakfast, and judging by results, it is an improvement compared to previous ways of his eating.
No doubt this was a standing scale and the reading was heavily biased by the fact that he carries little weight in his legs and hydration status also heavily impacts such measurements. He believed that, however, but as we now know, he's obese by the more accurate %BF measure.
I didn't find the LC community until after Regina had stopped blogging so am largely unfamiliar. There's a mega Kimkins thread at LCF where she was highly critical of that escapade of his at the time. I read that a year or two ago and always found it interesting that friendships developed after that between some in the community.
As for exercise he's taken back up the slow burn lifting the past couple of months. And frisbee golf.
@Unknown: I think he certainly looks to have aged more than the number of years that have transpired. This hoopla about LC preventing gray hair, baldness, wrinkles and all that jazz is a load of bunk.
In his NK lecture in Oz, he did a live finger prick to test blood and complained how cold his fingers were. I'm someone who generally feels colder than those around me, but don't generally have this problem when I'm standing up while everyone else is sitting, even if the room is cold. So this stuck out at me as he was wearing a long sleeves, buttoned up and long pants and lots of the pics show people in lighter clothing in attendance.
I don't know how spontaneous 24 hours fasting could be, ketosis or not. Eating is also a social activity in many cases.
I would hate to be in the situation when my ability of making a living would depend on running a LC website, especially with a paleo-twist. There is almost nothing to sell, the only possible sponsors are small farmers who produce grass-fed staff. Even people who sell books have others regular jobs.
Haven't quite a few of these low-fat heretics reduced their overall fasting insulin by greatly improving their glucose tolerance and clearance rates on a whole food low-fat diet with all those vile grains and lentils included?
However, I'd hate to end up that thin unless it was absolutely necessary. It seems that the approach is sufficient, but maybe not all of it is necessary.
But, since Esselstyn and co. are also advocates and not unbiased, I'd want to see some credible rebuttals - if there are any.
My summary of Esselstyn's series: a small group of 2ndary cardiac Pts were put on very low fat (not just vegan) and they experience a greatly reduced event rate. In fact, maybe a rate of zero for compliers -- except for the sketchy part about one guy who gets a half gram here and there (said half-grams don't appear on labels as per FDA) and he has problems. Now, that reminded me of Eades and his half-grams of carbs sneaking in and being blamed for causing fatness.
Or, maybe Esselstyn's half grams were of TFA which just might be bad in small amounts-- but if so the failure to mention that is misleading.
Esselstyn also refers to plaque regression studies, which I have to look up some day.
Also, he talks about how inaccuracies can occur in a DEXA, and in so doing gives a guide on how to gimmick the test.
Time of day, what you wear, fasting or not... variation equals +/- 1% BF in results I'd also wonder about dehydration/diuretics.
That's at 25:00
but then I'd ask as always: was there also calorie reduction and weight loss that might account for the benefit?
Then again, what about the excess skin - as in Extreme Loser type shows? Maybe it's not fat after all... well, okay, that's a stretch.
Come to think of it, Attia didn't mention that part at all wrt Jimmy's risk on ATLCX.
Also, in general I'd think that waist/height is much better to use. Once I was at an online waist-to-hip calculator, and discovered that I could reduce my risk just by adding inches of fat to my butt, at least according to the calculator. Somehow that seemed just wrong :)
For him to HAVE to get under 200, and have 6% body fat is so punitive and fantastic. He's the male version of the girls who are "pro-ana" and have pictures of anorexics as their "thinspiration."
Amen to that, as also e.g. in having a healthy tan. Which is quite different than the vit D hype that's taken over the world. I'm still waiting for the news headlines about how disease rates have declined very sharply worldwide, seeing as how so many are swilling mega-doses of vit D these days.
Here's an interesting counter to vit D hyping, also exposing some of the tactics of the advocates:
http://bacteriality.com/2009/08/10/iom/
It's long so let me point to this sentence and the bit around that: "Several things about Dr. Garland’s chart are of interest." That reminds me of LC gurus and I'd also imagine the same goes for vegan gurus.
For someone his age to get to 6% he would have to have an endless capacity for self-torture, to get to 11% he would merely have to be very disciplined in regard to both diet and exercise for an extended period of time, the possibility of either happening is very close to zero.
Thanks, LHK. Here's a video of her:
"Harriet Hall squatting 540 at the 2005 USAPL Women's Nationals"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KrSNCDS0DI
Oh wait, this might be the correct one:
http://www.skepdoc.info/index.html "The SkepDoc"
Seems she also has written some reviews on Taubes.
Rarely have I read an account of someone who doesn't have weight to lose but still bothers to post bio-marker improvements as a result of a certain dietary intervention, but even those sort of folk seem to pop in the low-fat camps. I could be considered one of these individuals because I have seen changes in blood and bio markers as a result of change in dietary approach without any significant change in weight or physical fitness.
Speaking specifically on the topic of ageing, I do think it goes a little beyond just weight control or loss. Douglas Graham looks terrible for his age, and even I've taunted Harley on another forum by posting up a shot of Graham compared against Scisson when Boy Durian was harping on about the AGE content of cooked meat or something along those lines.
And I'm just guessing that I was 11%. A doc I was going to at the time wanted to measure me and did so with a few measurements..... I'm thinking she used skinfold calipers, but it was a while back and I actually don't remember. :(
Anyway, 11% is way low. I don't think that Jimmy has any real clue. I doubt he's been below 23-25% in a long, long, long time, if ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnGK0auyj1Y
"SENS5 - Increased damage to proteins in ageing" 28 minutes
Attia said he does "Intermittent ketosis", viz. having a protein feed window. Actually, I'd listened to that Attia interview in order to see if he was wasting or what on low protein - so he seems to have sidestepped that effect.
Here is a photo of D Graham:
http://30bananasadaysucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Dr.-Doug-Graham-March-12-2012.jpg
Looks a little cachectic in the face area. Not robust.
P.S. Must be a funny backstory about Durian.
Protein's an interesting factor that as of late, seems to be getting slammed by all the extremists. I mean, if there's one area where the 'nutty ketosis' folk and the ultra-low protein, low-fat fanatics agree on, is the whole 'bad protein' mantra. I've always wondered if it is beneficial to get a little extra protein on top of what is requirement. Don Matesz and co., seem to think that protein in general is bad and that 1 gram protein per 1kg of body mass should be the maximum. Jimmy seems to think that it's chocolate cake, heh, so I'll just focus on Don's criticism of protein. Now I know that there's plenty of contention around the topic of protein, but for those in the low-fat vegan camps, a little extra protein does seem to alleviate issues with hair and skin, which in turn does produce a more youthful appearance for those concerned. Eh, but then there's that talk about excess protein and mTOR. Hell, I wonder whether the standard protein understanding of protein and its requirement per kilogram of body weight for the average folk will change down the line.
With regards to the Graham photo. Haha! I used that very photo, actually, and on that very website (30BaDSucks)when I used to be active. Wait. . . I think I found the thread. Really though, it's not all that funny and full of the same ol' drama and even religious hysteria provoked by Harley's babble that could comatose an amoeba from sheer boredom about how Robb Wolfe looks old and how ponies are kind creatures and blah blah/whatevers, so I decided to troll back with a photo comparison. Don't know which was worse: BoiDurian being a dunce or the excessive theological talk-down on the topic.
http://30bananasadaysucks.com/2012/05/one-year-811-almost-destroyed-my-health/
Hall questions Esselstyn's veracity: "Hype that goes far beyond the evidence."
I remember well the PBS documentary (probably 1993) on Ornishes efforts. He was thrilled to get a halt to progression (until then practically unheard of), and sometimes a little regression. So I'd wondered about how Esselstyn achieved supposedly much greater results.
I'm glad I asked for a critique. Thanks, LHK.
But still, she also says "Gary Taubes wrote the huge, extensively referenced tome Good Calories, Bad Calories to debunk the alleged certainty that dietary fat has anything to do with cardiovascular disease, and also to expose the colorful history of nutrition science and how surprisingly little good diet research has actually yet been done." Sure, Harriet... the brilliant research authority on insulin never even knew about insulinogenic proteins -- coincidentally sidekick Attia's current big focus.
So I wouldn't necessarily put a lot of creedence in what Harriet Hall says. She is also associated with quackwatch -- I remember something about that guy misrepresenting his credentials. Sigh... it never ends.
We have all heard these anecdotes on low carb forums of how eating a slice of whole wheat bread caused the poor sufferer to gain weight. I'm sick and tired of listening to low-carb fanatics tell these stories.
I've heard all them. I call bullshit.
If you gained weight, it's because you ate the whole loaf, not a slice.
A bullet point from the closing summary on that blog post:
"To address this question, however, one must look at changes in cardiovascular events or direct markers of atherosclerosis (e.g., IMT) while holding LDL-P constant and then again holding LDL size constant. Only when you do this can you see that the relationship between size and event vanishes. The only thing that matters is the number of LDL particles – large, small, or mixed."
Meanwhile, oversupply gets used as fuel or gets converted, of course - and during starvation all likely gets used as fuel. Which brings things back to the MPS studies and the way they usually feed only protein PWO and so skew things greatly, IMO, in indicating a bigger need than necessary because of all the oxidation that goes on without added carbs.
Ah well, thinking out loud.
I didn't mean to dismiss that which worked for you. Just trying to make the point that if LC resulted in a perfect match of appetite to caloric needs (reversed the horizontal growth disorder), none of this other stuff - calorie counting, intermittent fasting, carb cycling, cold immersion, etc., would be necessary.
I personally haven't done real well at calorie counting either. It does require a lot of attention to detail. But checking the calories in a meal once in awhile is instructive, and useful to calibrate your eye. And you don't need to track every calorie eaten to make an effort to reduce food intake. I'll also note that I have tried IF, using an eating window. It didn't reduce my hunger, which seemed to get worse the longer I went, and I eventually succumbed to the urge to eat outside the window.
My understanding is that Esselstyn is willing to use statins, if necessary, to get cholesterol to what he considers safe levels.
I don't understand why it is so, but for some reason I can't eat much after a long brake(some people report an opposite reaction), so the later in the day I start eating, the less food I need to eat to feel satisfied.It almost feels like my stomach shrinks after not eating. I used to have problem with grazing. Today my first meal was at 3 pm (20 hours fast), before that I drank several times green tea with lemon and had a cup of coffee in the morning. It is possible caffeine in my beverages has some effect on my appetite.
McDougall typically recommends more grains because he believes, in a maintenance state, a calorie restricted diet of beans and vegetables isn't going to yield long-term commitment from those on the programme. He himself advocates a greater share of vegetables and beans/lentils for those looking to reverse immediate weight issues and problems associated with said weight issues. It's primarily the acceptance of vegan fat sources that's the high point of division between the two sides.
As for people McDougall's followers being convinced that the diet has saved their prospects. Well, until and unless we don't have a definitive answer on the situation, which we do not, it is hard to fault them for being convinced since there are many positive testimonials and results in that realm. Seeing as we don't have another default position on the matter, and lowered cholesterol by way of LDL below 100 does seem to have its benefits in line with present evidence, the McDougall camp certainly does owe some credit to their diet, as does the Fuhrman camp, which also favours lowered cholesterol.
http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
Also, there is a huge, huge difference between maintaining and gaining - IMO with diminishing returns being very dramatically experienced in the latter case. Very.
P.S. I remember some Paleo guy (named Bear?) who tried an all meat diet and gave up after a period.
I used to say that I can't eat on an empty stomach.
"I run into a weight loss stall after loosing 20 lb"
I knew a girl who would watch her diet, do her treadmill and still said she couldn't lose a final 7 pounds. When I started taking her on two hour walks in sometimes hilly terrain, she began losing. The best benefit of MM for weight loss might just be in sustained exercise beneath the talk test but close to it, for long periods (not just 30 minutes) -- to break through stalls caused by lowered basal rate.
I don't take statins, but those studies (ASTEROID, REVERSAL, SATURN) do demonstrate that reversal can take place - which is informative in and of itself. I'd guess that somebody is now working on an agent that is purely anti-inflammatory to see if that can accomplish the same result, using scans and not event end points.
Just goes to show - the carbs ain't going to kill you if you're a somewhat average person like me. What I have maintained and not changed is my average daily calorie intake (I track it online). I haven't lost weight. Typical macro breakdown: 46% carbs, 34% fat, 18% protein, and 3% alcohol. Over months of tracking on fitday, this varies slightly, but not much!
Discussed this turn of events, and my diet, with my doctor. He said a medical conference he went to in the past year convinced him to try veganism. He said his favorite food is now spelt pizza. He lost 8 pounds in a month, which he didn't need to lose, being a person of average build, on the slim side!
Yes, changing of a routine can cause a mild weight loss during the adaptation. Unfortunately , a long-distance walking in Moscow didn't prevent me from gaining there 5 lb during my 2 months stay. I love our old park next to my mom's apparent, it is situated on the high bank of a Moscow river, very hilly, I started my day there with going to the park every day to enjoy autumn colors that I don't see much in Florida. They also installed weight-lifting machines in park for free for a public to use. Besides,life in Moscow requires a lot of unintentional walking - my mom lives on a fourth floor without an elevator, even while using metro one has to walk a lot,while changing stations, there are stairs everywhere, shopping is done without a car.
About the Paleo guy. I don't think you're referring to Owsley 'The Bear' Stanley. The infamous LSD guy and roadie for The Grateful Dead who pretty much indulged in pure carnivory for almost 50 years until passing away from a fatal car accident last year at the age of 76. He also survived throat cancer in 2004 and was of the belief that the proclaimed low-glucose and insulin facets of his diet starved the cancer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owsley_Stanley
There are plenty of other dudes who did drop-out from zero-carbing. Can't think of any at the moment, however.
But, when is it enough? I know there is some codependency that develops whenever I continually call a single person out for a long period of time. The act becomes self-serving for me and turns into a place where my ego can feel safe because of its clear superiority over the other.
I just respond to people who say those things that they need to see a doctor right away. It's serious!
When a person who attempts to lose weight eats 'healthy,' eats less than he expends in calories, and gains weight - a doctor who takes him seriously and believes him - which is a challenge - will see red flags everywhere. Unfortunately, I think doctors hear this story often enough that they simply say, 'Try another diet' because what are you going to do? Run a full battery of tests covering every deficiency known to man and ultimately have the person spend a week in the hospital, being observed and monitored?
Spend a week in the hospital. Have bed rest with only the opportunity to walk when you are walking to the bathroom. Have your meals served to you in hospital-type portion sizes, no snacks. Do some catch-up reading, watch movies and TV, talk on the phone, all the while staying in bed. Then weigh-in at the end of that time.The hospital cafeteria food is not going to be prepared by you... the portions are going to be fairly uniform, the nutrition fairly adequate. Most important: the cafeteria workers have no incentive whatsoever to vary the portions of the food and there are no 'seconds.'
This will tell a lot about what you think is the cause of your weight gain. If you gained weight- on those very moderate portions of food, then look to the physical activity side. If you lost weight, then look at the caloric-intake side. Then leave the hospital and proceed with your diet according to what those results were.
I wish I could say this experience could be reproduced at home, but people know where the refrigerator is, and what's in the cupboard. Not many people like 'house arrest.'
On a hospital ward, the nurse had to bar one of my friends from stealing food from the staff kitchen, and friends were not allowed to bring her food unless it passed inspection and the calories were subtracted from her daily allotment and meals adjusted!
That's why I think that the new food plate is such a great idea. (Of course, the Low Carbers deride it endlessly.) It gives you a visual aid. I enjoyed calorie counting at first but after a while, I also found it annoying. And after another while, it was simply unnecessary. What iit comes down to is three plates a day - not heaped to the ceiling, and you can see space between the portions.
This is difficult?
Good points, Lerner.
Since he was--for his eccentric dietary leanings--an individual of interest, I followed some of his work including a rather confrontational clash on a low-carb forum where he attempted to share his ideas.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=287013&page=1&pp=15&highlight=bear+carniverous
Now, health is starting to become one of those, "in the eye of the beholder" things. We can consider the psychological state of certain [insert name of odd diet fad here] proponents who are convinced--despite degenerating health markers--that they're on a 'healthy diet'. From what I was reading about The Bear's account on that forum, his fasting glucose was 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/l), and that it was dead stable at that figure, which I assume means postprandial reads as well. Now if that was really the case, then good on him, but what if that's hyperbole?
Here's him talking about his throat cancer: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=5977704&postcount=153
Blood glucose:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=5984192&postcount=296
It's hard to take such accounts at face value, but even if he managed as well as he thinks he managed on zero carbohydrate, I think we'd need compelling reasons as to why he shouldn't be treated as an outlier or an anomaly. . . Or even an exception to the general trend.
Regina Wilshire has in the last couple days published posts to this effect, and Jimmy has on his Facebook page accused her of "pontificating." How petty can you get? She's his *friend.*
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