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Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Tuesday, January 8, 2013

Papa Sisson?

"While the world chooses to remain focused on the infantile concepts of diet and weight loss as the primary goals of getting healthy, it’s good to know we have an adult watching out for our real best interests and arming us with information that is truly life-changing. "
~ Jimmy Moore, Review of Primal Connection by Mark Sisson


20 comments:

Diana said...

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
..."

Unknown said...

There we go with the "healthy" thing again, what's the problem Jimmy you got an arrow stuck in your head, lost your thumb in a wood-chopping accident, bleeding copiously from your throat, torn scrotum, third-degree burns, inoperable brain tumor, what exactly ails you other than being overweight and physically inactive?

Mirtika said...

Was Mark Sisson ever obese? I enjoy reading his blogs, but I don't recall if he ever had a major weight issue to overcome? And... Did he give the thumbs up to an eggs and butter diet for weight loss? I thought they were all about getting those micronutrients in non-starchy vegetables and maybe tubers for optimal health along with all that meat/fish/offal? The guy looks brimming with health and vitality and joie de vivre, so at least he's got the LOOK to plug a caveman diet, but I should go check and see if he was ever obese...

I tend to worry when a regular human is put up on a pedestal as "leading us to the right way to do things." I'll trust God to lead me. I'm always skeptical about men and women, especially men and women profiting from an agenda. Nothing like money to corrupt. ; )

I learned a lot that helped me from various sources. I'm grateful for it. Paleo and Primal folks are included in those sources, as are some low carbers. BUT...I don't want a guru. I've already got my Lord, and he did a lot of fasting, walking, moderate eating, and mostly told us not to obsess about what we eat and what we drink, but to love God and love folks some. I know I have to focus on my diet and lifestyle to fix my issues, but I really don't wanna have a cultish mentality about it.

I think Jimmy has made this his obsession and income-generator, so it may not even be possible for him at this point to take a step back and listen to even his Lord about what to do. I mean, does he even fast and pray to God for an answer or guidance on how to tackle his health and weight issues? Is it just the Sissons and Taubes and Kruses that he looks to?

He's invested in men and the LC system, so even if God said in that still small voice to him (or the loud big yell) "You know, Jimmy, son, go and have a bowl of fruit and a nice bean and tater stew," Jimmy would likely turn around and walk away, like the rich young ruler walked away from Jesus when he told him to ditch his worldly goods. We get really invested and can't be swayed, no matter how good the science/evidence.

We gotta be careful that what we think we're controlling is not actually controlling us. I say that as a sister in the faith with Jimmy. I really think he would do well to take some time off and spend it with God in deep seeking, cause he's been LCing this way and that way for a long time with some really weird weight ups and downs in weight and wacky extreme eating plans and strange bloodwork. The leading he needs, it seems to me, is not from Sisson or any other of those experts right now. He's interviewed hundreds of experts. He needs a better Voice.

On we go..

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Nice comments Mirtika, thanks for them. No, Sisson was never obese or even overweight or out of shape. He was an elite competitive endurance athlete and has been involved in fitness his whole life. Now he will discuss how unhealthy he was on grains, suffered from IBS and arthritis. However, to hear his telling in interviews, one wonders how he could compete/perform with such illness. Folks often point to his youthful looks as proof, and yet the clock doesn't start at 50 when it appears he got into this stuff and I'm willing to bet he looked youthful back then too. Part of that is genes, part is fitness, a lot is the abs and his general "look". Point being I doubt highly his current pictures are improvements on a decade ago. He was always as he is. I'm pretty sure of it.

Lighthouse keeper said...

I agree, the way this word is thrown about is becoming irksome, in fact the whole Jimmy Moore quote above is really just nebulous waffle. Good to know though that an "adult" paleo guru/entrepeneur is watching out for my best health interests, the peace of mind this brings is invaluable.

Diana said...

Aren't you sick of this obsessive emphasis on "looking young"? My father looked young until his last illness. He was a spectacularly handsome man and no, I'm not saying that because I'm his daughter. It is embarrassing as an adolescent to have your friends have crushes on your father.

He was also in great shape....because he was a manual laborer. He also smoked a ton. He got emphysema and became disabled, and then...it caught up with him.

Actually, it didn't catch up with him. He got a little heavier, but the geezer still looked great, disabled and sedentary!! (He quit smoking.)

Looks can be deceiving. Some people just look good. They aren't necessarily healthy - although it is true that when you look like shit you are usually unhealthy.

Diana said...

An example of "adult" behavior.

Beginning a blog post with: "I don’t personally have any animosity towards vegans and have even interviewed quite a few of them on my podcast over the years."

And going on to say:

"...These militant vegans only wish they could do this and I challenge them to tell their people the truth. Gutless. Worthless. Human debris. They owe me an apology, but I’m not holding my breath."

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/vegan-group-creates-dishonest-video-denigrating-low-carber/16848

That's what I call mature in the LC cult!

Gwen said...

Wow, Diana, is that response from him Christian or what?

(I was dismayed and laughed at the same time.)

Gwen said...

Really nice post, Mirtika.

Princess Dieter aka Mir said...

I didn't go to see that response, but that totally disobeys the "love your enemies" command.

I tried vegan and raw vegan. I figured, why not? I actually would be VERY happy eating ovo-lacto vegetarian, as I'm not crazy about meat. I gave up beans/corn/grains/gluten for a while when I was more Primal, but right now, I'm eating beans again this year. I miss beans. I do try to buy organic and GMO free beans/corn/etc. And I still avoid gluten (my eczema and asthma improved when I gave it up, improved A LOT,e nough for me to consider I am sensitive, though certainly NOT celiac).

I find that I like meatless meals and I missed them, so I am figuring out how to reincorporate and still feel okay (appetite and allergy-wise). It's my own n=1. ")

One of the most vibrant, healthiest looking and slim (like size zero slim) people I know is a gluten and soy-free vegan. She's got energy to spare. A cancer survivor. I see proof that veganism can be great in her. She's just glowing with health and energy and good vibes.

But vegan ain't for everyone. If someone likes it, thrives on it, go for it.

I find vegan foods more appealing than endless days of only meat and eggs, frankly. But we do what we must to feel better and improve health markers. I ain't gonna judge a person's food and exercise journey if it works for them. If this plan was really working for Jimmy, I'm high five him. I just don't see it doing him all that much good. His lipid panel is horrifying.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Diana I'm surprised I didn't pick up on that tirade. It is worse with the rest of the paragraph, IMO:

"And thanks to healthy high-fat, moderate protein, low-carb living with lots of meat, eggs, cheese, veggies and butter helping me get into nutritional ketosis, I’ll keep getting thinner and healthier in the coming months and years than I have in my entire life. These militant vegans only wish they could do this and I challenge them to tell their people the truth. Gutless. Worthless. Human debris. They owe me an apology, but I’m not holding my breath"

Mind you that video wasn't really anything that horrible in the scheme of things. Telling ...

@Mir: Yeah, I'd be a lot more "cheerful" if it were having unquestionable beneficial effects. Instead the LDL-P is "nightmarish" -- yet in appearances he lists specifics (including a meaningless heart scan score of zero from 5 years ago) while only expressing concerns for his somewhat high (insert equivalent modifying adjective) LDL-P. That is deceptive if you ask me. And it's not fair to those who follow his lead either.

There are more folks on paleo blogs adn forum who had adverse lipid changes than I'm sure any care to mention. The standard website disclaimer tells people to discontinue, but the advice in comments almost never honors that general good advice.

Princess Dieter aka Mir said...

My total cholesterol went from 211 when I was 266 pounds mid-2010 to 256 in mid-2011 when I was nearly out of obesity. I mean, I lose a host of weight and had skyrocketing LDL (though HDL and trigs improved nicely). In 2012, the LDL kept going up, though I stayed out of obesity and was exercising. I cut back on butter and coconut oil, used more EVOO, added rice and taters, and my cholesterol got back down to 229 (a number more in the range that Kresser shows as being "normal") with continued good HDL and low trigs. Blood sugar still well in normal range (80). Because I've got Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (since 1990), I have times my thyroid is out of range (worse cholesterol) and in optimal range (better cholesterol), so it's more complex than just what I eat. But clearly, food makes a difference.

I know many will say to ignore the LDL. Sorry, I can't. Too many voices arguing about it, but even Kresser, a Paleo-friendly guy, and some other "expert" voices in that community would say that very high LDL is something to address--be it reducing inflammation, healing infections/parasitic conditions, adding iodine and zinc and copper, etc.

I think Jimmy ignoring that lipid horror story is part of the blinkered syndrome in LC/Paleo/any insulated diet. We see what we want to see only.

Princess Dieter aka Mir said...

OOps, forgot to say my LDL had been 190 and was 155 last check. Still problematic, but improving sans drugs. (I cannot tolerate statins,a nd don't want them.) Goes to show losing weight (120 lbs total) and exercising 5 days a week (with a trainer even) doesn't fix cholesterol. I had 211 total cholesterol at 300 pounds eating junk all fricken day. (shrug) It's vexing. But I can't surrender and say, "yeah, sure, let's have 300 LDL, cause as long as HDL is high, it's all good."

Melissa Mcewen said...

The sad thing is few of his biomarkers don't exactly even fit the idea of "healthy"- except to his select few diet book author friends. He would definitely not qualify under the overweight, but metabolically healthy label.

Unknown said...

I haven't had my lipids checked since the mid-90's, I'm like Schrodinger's Cat, am I at death's door or am I spectacularly healthy? I'm both at the same time (finally figured out how to introduce quantum physics into the diet debate).

Diana said...

@Gwen - my reactions exactly.

@Evelyn - I didn't want to quote the whole thing because I didn't want to be accused of overkill, I'm just commenting on someone else's blog. I was tempted to quote the whole. I'm glad you did. It's quite insane. I don't get it - he should be happy that vegans take him so seriously, he's getting under their thin fat free skin - and he takes off like a rageaholic.

Re: nutty K, the one weekend where I tried something like it my cholesterol shot up frighteningly. Cholesterol is high in my family and I don't worry about it but that was bad. It's a sick diet. Who "evolved" to eat like that? No one.

Diana said...

Kwikie Komparison.

December 2012:

"And thanks to healthy high-fat, moderate protein, low-carb living with lots of meat, eggs, cheese, veggies and butter helping me get into nutritional ketosis, I’ll keep getting thinner and healthier in the coming months and years than I have in my entire life. These militant vegans only wish they could do this and I challenge them to tell their people the truth. Gutless. Worthless. Human debris. They owe me an apology, but I’m not holding my breath"

June 2007:

"There are five plans to choose from on Kimkins and I decided to start with the Kimmer Experiment, commonly known as K/E. This plan dictates that you eat lean sources of protein, such as turkey, chicken, salmon, lean roast beef, lean ham...all of which I consumed on Atkins during my original weight loss. You are allowed to eat as much of it as you need to satisfy your hunger. No calorie restrictions are necessary.

Sure, it's been a little boring so far, but the results have been nothing short of miraculous for me:

Day 1--I LOST 6 pounds!
Day 2--I LOST 4 pounds!
Day 3--I LOST 1 pound!
Day 4--I LOST 2 pounds!

Let me add that up for you: 13 POUNDS LOST IN FOUR DAYS!!!"

LINK:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=337684

January 2013, I ask: what next?

Diana said...

I just re-read the quotation. Can someone define the first part?: ""While the world chooses to remain focused on the infantile concepts of diet and weight loss as the primary goals of getting healthy...."

Huh? What is infantile about one's primary goal being health?

It's clear that words mean nothing to Jimmy, but these words are nevertheless revealing - that Jimmy doesn't care about health in the slightest. He only cares about how he looks.

Princess Dieter aka Mir said...

Well, why is Jimmy so busy dieting on LC/high fat and exercising to lose weight if "diet and weight loss" are infantile? I mean, he talks about food and he talks about what he did at the gym and how much weight he's lost. Seems his actions contradict those words. He's focused on losing weight. He's focused on his diet. He's focused on gaining health by manipulating diet and weight. Sheesh.

For folks who are obese, focusing on diet and weight loss for health reasons MAKES SENSE. Me losing weight and changing how I eat got me off blood pressure meds, got me to normal blood sugar/resolved my prediabetes, resolved my sleep apnea, pretty much eliminated my plantar fasciitis. If I had something that diet and weight loss could help, why wouldn't I focus on it?

Sophia said...

The sentence is impossible to understand.

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