That Paleo Study ...
Random bump because this is making the rounds again due to being published in the IJES this month:
Unrestricted Paleolithic Diet is Associated with Unfavorable Changes to Blood Lipids in Healthy Subjects
Original Publish Date: 5/14/2013
A student, Eric Trexler, at Ohio State did a study on the paleo "lifestyle" for what appears to be an undergraduate honors thesis towards his degree in Exercise Science. Here is the link to the full text: Paleolithic Diet is Associated With Unfavorable Changes to Blood Lipids in Healthy Subjects. So I thought I'd put up a quick blog with some thoughts, because a tweet is just a tweet and I've seen a few comments reading into my supposed motivations for tweeting this. So ... let's discuss a bit and include some criticisms I've seen elsewhere on the web.
1. It's not a peer reviewed article or a graduate thesis. This is true so it hasn't undergone rigorous scrutiny, that shouldn't stop you or I from reviewing it ourselves and seeing if it provides any worthwhile information.
2. The study is confounded with participation in CrossFit, yet results are attributed to the diet only ... at least this is what the title implies. Since there is at least a sizeable subset for whom CrossFit and Paleo are synonymous with "being paleo" I might suggest that the "Paleolithic Diet" be replaced with "Popular Paleo Lifestyle".
3. "So the subjects were told to go forth and eat Paleo? Were guidelines more specific and compliance verified?" -- this was a response on Twitter, and a valid one. There is discussion of prior studies of the Paleo diet and the inconsistencies between the various prescribed diets. Here is the diet description:
A Paleolithic diet, as first described by Eaton and Konner, was implemented for all study participants. Subjects were advised to increase their consumption of lean meat, fish, eggs, nuts, fruit, and vegetables and were instructed to strictly avoid all grains, dairy products, and legumes. All modern, processed foods including any form of processed sugar, soft drinks, and coffees were also excluded from the diets of the subjects.
Say what??? No coffee!!! There were no specific compositional recommendations for macro or plant v. animal intake. As to compliance and evaluation:
Dietary recall logs were distributed to all subjects during the last [tenth] week of the dietary intervention and subjects were asked to record all food and liquids over three days, including a weekend day.
For better or worse, this protocol is similar to that used in dietary interventions too numerous to count. However:
Our study does have some limitations. A low number of diet logs were returned and deemed sufficient for analysis (n = 8), which calls into question how accurately the returned logs portray the dietary intake of the entire group. Also, our study did not impose a high level of control over our subjects— meals were not prepared for subjects, nor did the subjects stay in a metabolic ward for the duration of the study.
I am concerned that such a small number of the participants returned dietary logs. Only 8 of 43 is less than 20% and I would say this brings into question the entire study in terms of the diet composition. Perhaps logs should have been distributed during week 5 so that those who failed to submit logs could be encouraged to do so during the following week. One wonders what the other 35 ate and/or if there was some reason (like "cheating" and having coffee with cream or butter) they didn't want to submit logs. In this regard this really is a weakness in this study that draws most of the results into question as to their usefulness. I find that unfortunate as the relatively unstructured ad libitum nature of the diet prescribed, such as it was, already introduced this question of applicability. However ... the authors stress that they wanted the diet to be "real life" and in this regard, it seems that all subjects at least followed some notion of the paleo diet.
If any further publication of this study is in the works, I might suggest formally tabulating the dietary logs such as they are and perhaps doing the lipid analysis for reporters v. non-reporters to see if there are any significant differences. The numbers might not be sufficient for statistical significance but it might be worth a look.
4. Unfavorable is In the Eye of the Beholder: No doubt many will question the title of this article and it might surprise some that I would tend to agree. The changes in lipids were not necessarily all that "significant" in the practical sense even though they reached the level of statistical significance in many categories. Here are the results:
The aerobic capacity and body fat improve while the unfavorable nature of the changes in TC, LDL and n-HDL are not so horrible as to be overly concerning. Still, in most weight loss trials where participants lose 7 lbs = ~4% body weight, the trend for these lipids tends to be in the direction of lowering not raising. Further, the unfavorable shifts are similar to the favorable shifts attributed to the paleo diet in other studies -- gotta take the bad with the good! If you aren't "broken" to begin with, this study presents a cautionary tale as to what miraculous improvements one might expect to achieve by adopting the paleo/CF lifestyle.
5. Eric Trexler is a Body Builder: I saw an "oh noes" about this one ... to which I say "so what?" If this were his n=1 experiment then it might have meaning, but he was only involved in conducting the study, not undergoing the intervention. His background may have biased his hypothesis, but in the end the results are what they are.
Now ... Speaking of criticisms like #5, and putting together some of the other points made, one sentiment I've been hearing is that collective brush off that some just want to be negative while this study isn't much if anything to write home about. In a way I agree. There simply isn't enough structure and/or documentation here regarding what the diet consumed really was, including variability among the subjects, etc. That said, compared to other "studies", it can't be ignored. What other studies? Well, one issue from which most of the contention with Robb Wolf evolved was basically trying to get a straight answer on just what the diet involved is in his Reno first responder work. Near as I can tell it's low carb as a general guideline and he's trying to steer it more to Lindeberg-style paleo. Which brings me to a moment of giddiness for me when I tweeted to Staffan Lindeberg himself and he responded! Preceding this tweet, someone had wondered if the CrossFit component might have impacted the results.
Eggs cooked in butter - coffee with butter. #mmmbutter #lccruise13 |
As I've discussed on this blog, the paleo diets used by Lindeberg's research group tend to bear little resemblance to the paleo diets we hear about coming from PaleoFX and various gurus in the community. For starters, they are almost fruit-centric (by mass the largest component) and not fatty meat fests with butter on top! It's almost laughable that Practical Paleo's Diane Sanfilippo posted the picture at right, just two days before, of her breakfast on the LC cruise ... Can you say bacon, low-fruit, no-starch "paleo"?? There's more fat pictured at right than consumed in an entire day in the "classic" Lindeberg RCT or perhaps even the Jonsson (his research group) study, and certainly more saturated fat.
I would also mention that eggs are "overconsumed" in the paleo community if Lindeberg's studies are to be any benchmark for a paleo diet conveying health benefits. In Lindeberg, average egg consumption was 29 g/day, vs 71 g/day for Jonsson ... that's basically one-half to one jumbo egg per day. (I would note that negligible oils and no butter consumption were reported for each study).
I would also mention that eggs are "overconsumed" in the paleo community if Lindeberg's studies are to be any benchmark for a paleo diet conveying health benefits. In Lindeberg, average egg consumption was 29 g/day, vs 71 g/day for Jonsson ... that's basically one-half to one jumbo egg per day. (I would note that negligible oils and no butter consumption were reported for each study).
Whatever one's position on saturated fats, if you're going to point to the research out there that is testing paleo, it is disingenuous to promote the diet depicted above as paleo yet point to any of the studies summarized in the table here and say they support your dietary advocacy.
So in the Trexler study, with the caveat that these were logs for only 8 of 43 participants, the diet came to roughly 50% fat of which 13% was sat fat. There's no indication of caloric intake but:
Previous studies have shown positive effects of Paleo interventions on a number of health markers [2, 7-10], and in some cases blood lipids [2, 9]. However, these studies used more restrictive Paleo guidelines, and many used subjects that were initially overweight [2, 8, 9] and were either sedentary [2], had coronary artery disease [8], or had type 2 diabetes [9]. There is a general lack of literature pertaining to Paleo interventions in healthy, highly active populations, and there is reason to question whether previous Paleo studies accurately replicate the actual dietary intake of the free-living Paleo dieter.
Diet log analysis revealed that subjects in our study reported higher intakes of total fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol than any of the previously mentioned human interventions [2, 8-10]. While our subjects reported daily intakes of 115 g total fat, 29 g saturated fat, and 673 mg cholesterol, the four previously mentioned studies averaged drastically lower daily intakes of total fat (67 g), saturated fat (15g), and cholesterol (426 mg) [2, 8-10]. {10 is the Osterdahl study I haven't included yet, Ryberg in my above table was fairly recent hence not included in Trexler}
So by my calculations, if 115g fat was ~50% of calories, caloric intake averaged 2070 cal/day. If we presume 20% protein and 30% carbs this works out to roughly 105 and 155g respectively. Not an over indulgent diet macrowise and the results weren't so bad. Here's what I think is important:
When stratified by initial blood lipid levels based on the ATP III, there was a significant decrease of HDL among subjects with the highest initial HDL (82.1 ± 3.2 mg/dL to 68.6 ± 4.8 mg/dL; P < 0.05; Figure 2) and significant increases of n-HDL among subjects with the lowest levels of n-HDL (86.6 ± 3.9 mg/dL to 101.4 ± 4.8 mg/dL; P < 0.01; Figure 3). Furthermore, significant increases of LDL (69.1 ± 3.1 mg/dL to 83.5 ± 4.1 mg/dL; P < 0.01; Figure 4), TC (157.2 ± 0.7 mg/dL to 168.2 ± 0.9 mg/dL; P < 0.05), and TC/HDL (2.5 ± 0.1 to 2.7 ± 0.1; P < 0.05; Figure 5) were observed among subjects with the most optimal initial levels of each respective outcome variable.
If one looks at a really short study, like Frasetto, and the improvements there (on a diet that resembles NO pop Paleo™ version) in 10 days, it is difficult to shrug off the trends seen in this study in a relatively short 10 weeks for those who are already in general good health. The higher fat consumption at least points to these participants following a more pPaleo™ version of the diet. This is not surprising to me. Anyone who reads just a smattering of blog posts or forums like PaleoHacks is likely to encounter the far-more-frequent-than-most-care-to-admit posts about how egads their cholesterol went bananas when they gave up the bananas. The response to these negative developments are predictable. Either (1) you're doing it wrong, eat more fat and less carbs or, you may have SIBO or AF or quit the nightshades, or whatever ... just "paleo harder!" and get more sleep ... and if that fails, (2) these biomarkers are meaningless anyway. Sometimes folks just skip to (2). In the end, the negative impacts of paleo are rarely addressed seriously, because, after all, what harm can be done eating real food and rebelling against conventional wisdom? Oh ... and look at all the people fill-in-the-blank-so-and-so is helping!!!
Then there's the knock over the lack of compliance control in this study. Fair enough. But many of the critics on this point are all too happy to tout the unverifiable n=1 success stories someone going by the handle IHeartPaleo scatters about the internet or various bloggers feature as success stories (where often we have just pictures and no bloodwork). Or how about that crowd sourced data over at the Ancestral Weight Loss Registry where you don't even need to provide a real name or email address to be included? At least here you have 43 people who signed on to a trial and submitted to testing before and after. In the end, this study is a data point. One that carries less weight than peer-reviewed RCT's but more than anecdotes on the internet where lipids are not often shared and/or cannot be verified.
Comments
This is a very neatly written article. I'll make sure to bookmark it and return to learn extra of your helpful info. Thanks for the post. I will definitely return.
Here is my web-site: トリーバーチ
I have a blog based on the same ideas you discuss and would love
to have you share some stories/information.
I know my subscribers would value your work. If you are even remotely interested, feel free to send me an e-mail.
Have a look at my web-site - chloe 財布
This study is interesting in that it's inconsistent with other studies that measure changes in TC, HDL-C, LDL-C with isocaloric changes in carbs with SFA, MUFA or PUFA. With higher fat and higher SFA you would expect higher TC and LDL-C on this diet, but you would also expect higher HDL-C too.
Finding out why HDL-C was lower is the next step: maybe it was the weight loss, maybe LC paleo + Crossfit reduces thyroid function
I liked the idea behind the study: doing a Paleo diet study in otherwise healthy people
It does seem that most criticisms of Paleo - whether it's from someones experience, a study such as this or the media, etc - is a criticism of a low carb, high added fat diet, Paleo or otherwise
The fact is that the participants actually IMPROVED in all meaningful parameters except LDL.
The reason the LDL seemed to "rise" is because The Friedewald Method (considerably) OVERESTIMATES LDL levels when triglyceride levels are low. Triglyceride levels fall significantly on LC diets.
LDL levels don't accurately predict risk of adverse cardiovascular events.
The reality is that the author and his supervisor are too stupid to even interpret their own results which are the OPPOSITE of the conclusion.
Assume makes an ass out of u and me. Just u, actually!
> Only in America
kindergarten ... for prejudiced bigots?
The Friedewald Method overestimates LDL in certain ranges - and I'm just going by a few pubmed abstracts in NCBI. However, one useful measure that has been suggested is non-HDL.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9526810
'LDL cholesterol concentrations are commonly estimated by the Friedewald
formula that requires only the measurement (after overnight fasting) of
plasma cholesterol and triglycerides along with high-density lipoprotein
(HDL) cholesterol. This value, however, is not in fact a true estimate
of LDL cholesterol but rather of LDL cholesterol along with variable,
usually smaller, amounts of intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL)
cholesterol and lipoprotein(a). Estimation of LDL cholesterol levels by
the Friedewald formula becomes progressively less accurate as plasma
triglyceride concentrations increase, and the formula is generally
considered inapplicable when triglyceride levels exceed 400 mg/dL.'
and
'Unlike the estimation of LDL cholesterol levels by the Friedewald
formula, the estimation of non-HDL cholesterol concentrations requires
no assumptions about the relation of very-low-density (VLDL) cholesterol
levels to plasma triglyceride concentrations. This method includes all
of the cholesterol present in lipoprotein particles now considered to be
potentially atherogenic [VLDL, IDL, LDL, and lipoprotein(a)].'
It doesn't look like n-HDL 'improved' in the Trexler study. Perhaps you glanced at the table and thought that read, 'HDL'?
Non-HDL-C is Total Cholesterol - HDL.
The lipid results seem pretty non-significant as you stated. Nice breakdown. The study seems interesting, but overall it doesn't really lend support for or against paleo. It's surprising people are getting so worked up about it, but then again, it is paleo...
Hopefully they'll have a study one day where they look at actual disease outcomes.
a part 2?
Also visit my web-site: www.airjordanshoesoutletssale.com
clear their motive, and that is also happening with this paragraph which I am reading now.
my web-site :: アバクロンビー
simply pay a visit this web page every day for the reason
that it provides feature contents, thanks
Feel free to visit my webpage http://www.raybansunglassesoutletsales.com
A lot of times it's difficult to get that "perfect balance" between user friendliness and visual appeal. I must say that you've done a superb
job with this. In addition, the blog loads super fast for me on Firefox.
Excellent Blog!
Feel free to surf to my web-site; www.pradahandbagsoutletssale.com
I'm shocked at how quick your blog loaded on my cell phone .. I'm not even using WIFI, just 3G .
. Anyways, wonderful blog!
Have a look at my web blog :: gucci バッグ
me. Anyhow, I'm definitely happy I found it and I'll be
bookmarking and checking back often!
My webpage - モンスター イヤホン
site is actually wonderful.
Feel free to visit my web site; ルイヴィトン新作
I am sending it to some buddies ans also sharing in delicious.
And of course, thank you to your effort!
Here is my webpage; エアジョーダン
I need a specialist in this area to resolve my problem.
Maybe that's you! Having a look forward to look you.
Stop by my web-site プラダ
Also visit my web-site :: シャネル財布
urging commented at this place, I am truly enjoying by these.
My homepage http://www.futureinternetofamerica.com
Feel free to surf to my site オークリーゴーグル
However, it's easy to see the appeal of other brands of Paleo. When it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
Check out p. 13 of the study. The mean trigs can be imputed from the figures:
Before: 70; After 73.
There's really no difference. This wasn't a weight loss fest as it is in most Paleo diets that resemble a VLC fest. It was ad libitum.
But what would be the impact of the oft-invoked Iranian formula at that level of trigs? The mean LDL is 106, which is the residually calculated LDL; Iranian = 98. It's about a 7.5% difference. Not really that meaningful. a difference considering the margin of error. If trigs were say 20, then the mean LDL of 106 would be 61. Significant, yes.
So the genius above reflexively summoned the old low-carb standby, that you're being discriminated against because your trigs are low. Well, not really. Not so much in this case, genius.
You start listening to these low-carb geniuses, you wonder if they can do simple algebra. Friedenwald, bad! Iranian, good! VLDL bad! LDL-C means nothing!
That confirms suspicions we've had about Paleo. Once you lose most of the weight, metabolic improvements stall or, in some cases, start to reverse. Unless you have blood sugar issues or have high cholesterol to begin with, Paleo isn't likely to improve your blood markers, even metabolic blood markers like triglycerides, which typically go down on a VLC diet.
Why would that be the case? Ad libitum, somewhat. But the important takeaway is that when a healthy person implements Paleo, there isn't likely to be much benefit except marginal weight loss. Remember, these people had low trigs (70) and very good TC/HDL (2.7) to begin with and were probably eating relatively healthy with normal carb levels. How much lower could they go? When you do a snow job by piling up morbidly obese and metabolically deranged diabetics and put them on an isocaloric or hypocaloric Paleo (read low-carb) diet, of course their lipids and BG will improve dramatically on a diet that approximates starvation. But even up the baseline and let everyone start from the same starting gate, there's no benefit and it actually gets a bit worse. I think we knew this from the beginning: those who're already healthy need not adopt Paleo, Paleo is a short-term, whip-yourself into-shape protocol that could actually moderately worsen your lipids, if you're already health.
Lesson to be learned: if you're already healthy, keep what you're doing. No need to adopt Paleo. In fact, somewhat lower SAFA would be of benefit, as SAFA modestly increases LDL when not in drastic weight-loss mode.
Some of us knew this from the beginning. the lower LDL that happens in Paleo/LC is accompanied by simultaneous TG reduction; in other words, it's a weight-loss phenomenon. When there isn't much weight to lose, you'll be just treading water.
Ancel Keys was initially sent to Crete to help the people overcome chronic food shortages and perceived malnutrition. His discovery of the "Mediterranean Diet' was a serendipitous outcome.
Many years ago I worked as food technologist. The reality is that most food technologists very rarely eat processed foods. The people who design processed foods are eating wholemeal bread and salads themselves.
What you're trying to say is price deflation of raw ingredients and industrialization, which resulted in mass production. This increased the availability of packaged food products, which began to replace the proportion of whole foods consumed gradually. But that is only one factor, not all of it. That is why one-sided thinking and single villain mentality can lead you down a rabbit hole. It may seem right to you but it's a single variable and you've only captured ~30% of what's going on.
It's not as if taking photos of your food is weird these days. Food photos are a staple on Instagram, and I believe one of the requirements of joining Crossfit is starting a food blog. :) (Usually consisting of only three entries, with possibly a post a year later that says, "Wow, I had totally forgotten about this blog, and that whole Crossfit thing lasted about two weeks.")
So many people these days have phones with cameras, there are existing diet apps that use this functionality already. And for people who don't have camera-enabled phones, you could make it an incentive -- here's a phone, take photos on X percentage of days, and you get to keep it at the end of the study.
In between other stuff I'm trying to write up a post on the latest LCK diet and diabetes study. 24 hour recall online survey there. It's almost like they don't even want to try anymore ;-)
This study was mostly interesting in that it implemented the modern interpretation in otherwise healthy people.
"Anyway, Mr. Fitzgerald proposes a healthy eating hierarchy. The idea
is that, wherever a food lies on the scale, the aim is to eat more of
the foods that rank above it, and less of those ranked below it. In
other words, generally eat more of the foods at the top of the list.
vegetables
fruits
nuts, seeds, and healthy oils
high-quality meat and seafood
whole grains
dairy
refined grains
low-quality meat and seafood
sweets
fried foods
Those top four items pretty much define a pure paleo diet."
Please tell me what "healthy oils" paleo man had access to.
You're absolutely right that butter, dairy, and CO are not "paleo" in any meaningful sense. Either the so-called Paleo movement will come to its senses and move back towards Lindberg, or else it's bound for the dustbin of history.
I could easily feed myself for a week or longer for the price of a decent size t-bone or a couple of deluxe supermarket ready meals by cooking from scratch with dried beans and lentils, rice, porridge, some mixed frozen veg and a few tins of sardines. You have to know what do with it and not see it as a chore robbing you of "valuable time".
But o teh peasant foodz.
I can kind of sympathise with the poor peasant food analogy. It isn't entirely inaccurate, but the hyperbolic, snarky manner in which it is argued within this laughable food wars context, definitely takes a lot of credibility away from what little legitimate criticism one could establish.
The guy who lived a long time also has the counfounding benefit of wealth and opulence on his side. And this would be the point where 'diet is everything' idea goes out the window because people seem to overlook the benefits of medical advances, including having access to the most quality medical care. Very few of of us--if any--can hope to even scratch the kind of distinct life that Buffet has managed.
Veggies outside the context of glam nonsense are still an excellent and favourable component to diet of rich and poor alike and don't result in problems when other aspects of diet are monitored. Goiterogens are a problem when people start to embark on gimmicky implementations of such diets, and even then, we can't be sure what's actually going on since many people who go to these gurus have come to the court with issues that would get them into a serious mess anyway. Chronic dieting and weight reduction in itself isn't a thyroid saver, either, throw in odd diets purely made of vegetable bulk and rather than embrace the obvious disaster that is to unfold, we defer to the goitrogenic argument, which is only valid in a very limited and exceptional context.
As for the deal about Buffet. Of course plenty of rich people die young and vice versa, ditto for the poor. But we also know that medical care and prevention are positive factors and this doesn't even need N=1 examples. It all just speaks to the futility of over relying on N=1 and doesn't answer the question as to how much better or worse he could've been had one of the other variables been different. Pritikin for example, had other issues that even pre-dated his diet. Regardless of other concerns that have yet to be tied to his diet, the man was actually free of atherosclerosis, and I believe there was even a brief discussion about this in the comments section of an earlier blog entry, something can be gleaned from this other than the moral absolute that the man died relatively young of cancer so everything else tied to his work--especially the subject of arterial health--is meaningless.
Of course, we still don't know a lot. However, I think you might appreciate the idea that this in itself isn't an excuse to abandon the progress that is being made and the growing understanding that we are developing, which is also--no doubt--bringing more questions.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=sebaceous&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=XI9eU_7LLIKN8Qfn2ICYAQ
Before Stephan a few scattered writers (all vegetarians in my vague recollection) spread out over the last 30 years of my reading of health & science & diet have written about "resetting your tastes to simpler food".
No, but then they did not have to since any food they got was pretty much not processed crap anyway. My guess is, they typically sat down to a meal that consisted of a portion of meat, and a couple vegetables, which would probably fall under a Paleo, Zone, or South Beach diet. You aren't going to get fat off of those kinds of meals until you start laying on the biscuits, butter bread, and then ice cream, cake or pie after every meal.
I do think our problems started out slowly when we added baking with flour and sugar to every meal, and now it's even worse with all the microwave meals, chips, soft pretzels, and everything else that contain HFCS and vegetable oils.
If all the fad diets do is get people to stop eating so much sugar, vegetable oils, preservatives, flour, etc, then the normal carbs, protein, and fat really won't hurt us and neither will the occasional snack or dessert.
>> I could life on McDonalds or Other fast food.
You could, and it has been proven by someone, I forget who, that you can even lose weight eating at McDonalds as long as you keep the calories down (which isn't easy at McDonalds), but, I would not think you would get your nutrition and I would not think it would be good for your cardio because you end up with a lot of grease and oils in your meal. I think there are diets to lose weight and there are diets as a way of life for health. Sometimes if you need to lose lots of weight, you have to use a fad diet to do it even if it is not optimally healthy (VLC or VLF) because you have to find a way that allows you to restrict calories without affecting you mentally. But once you are at an optimal baseline weight-wise, (which is healthy unto itself), then your diet should probably shift to what is most healthy so that you stay that way.
>> it's tough to discuss in a forum isn't it?
Yes, but at least we get to have discussions that we wouldn't otherwise get to have. :-) Everybody doesn't have to come together at the same time, and we can even live half a world apart. And I love to read all the posts people have made. :-)
From the mid 1800s until the 1970s the typical Australian diet was "meat and three veg" - a huge slab of charred meat (usually mutton) and some potatoes, beans and carrots that had been boiled to mush. Bread was invariably white and most fruit came in tins.
rich/high status people live much longer on average than poor people even when you
account for confounding variables such as diet, exercise and health care.
[ Heads of State are practically immortal unless they are assassinated.]
High status rhesus monkeys live far longer than low status monkeys even when kept under identical conditions. Continual psychosocial stress causes immense damage to the body over a long period.
The US is the only country where LDL subfractions are routinely tested. They are just one of the many meaningless, expensive and worthless tests performed by US doctors scared of lawsuits and pressured by patients who are bombarded with health-related advertising.
In Australia all treatments and diagnostic tests must be safe, evidence based and approved by the federal government. That's why we don't allow tests for LDL susbfractions or CAC scans.
Australia also bans all forms of drug advertising (except OTC) and prevents doctors from any form of advertising or self-promotion. So we don't have any Dr Oz type TV shows or publicity seeking diet doctors.
Pritikin's leukemia was in remission for 27 years. He committed suicide when he was 70
Ich habe nicht proof but pizza in certain neighbourhoods ... especially when the cook's hair's waaaayyyy too shiny
Post a Comment
Comment Moderation is ON ... I will NOT be routinely reviewing or publishing comments at this time..