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~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Tuesday, July 9, 2013

What Paleo™ can learn from Paula Deen. If it's not too late already.

In case you haven't heard, Paula Deen's career has imploded, exploded and all but vaporized in the past few weeks.  Gone from Food Network.  No more Smithfields or diabetes drug endorsements.  Gone are the product lines and Ceasar's Deen themed restaurants.  All for why?  Well, it turns out that Deen and her brother were being sued for sexual harassment and a racially charged atmosphere in the restaurant they co-own.  Deen was deposed and asked a simple question:  Have you ever used the N-word. 
"Yes, of course," Deen replied, though she added: "It's been a very long time."

Asked to give an example, Deen recalled the time she worked as a bank teller in southwest Georgia in the 1980s and was held at gunpoint by a robber. The gunman was a black man, Deen told the attorney, and she thought she used the slur when talking about him after the holdup. "Probably in telling my husband," she said.

Deen said she may have also used the slur when recalling conversations between black employees at her restaurants, but she couldn't recall specifics.

"But that's just not a word that we use as time has gone on," Deen said. "Things have changed since the '60s in the South. And my children and my brother object to that word being used in any cruel or mean behavior. As well as I do."
Now, I'm not about to carry water for Paula Deen here, but the 1980's?  The lawsuit also mentions sexual harassment. The 1980's would be before all the sexual harassment laws that have been put into place since high profile cases like Anita Hill, Jessica Hahn and Tailhook. I imagine that many a man in Deen's place, who might own a business and find themselves sued in today's world might be in a pickle if asked something like: Have you ever told sexist jokes? In 2010, transgressions from the 1980's might be forgiven (you'll have to get with Deen on that, I'm sure she never foresaw what is happening to her!). In 2020, will transgressions from 2010 be? Less likely.

I suspect the internet will have a much longer memory should this paleo thing ever really make it mainstream. That is the goal still, right? There probably wouldn't have been anyone to counter Paula Deen had she lied ...

Food for thought. Grain, dairy and legume free of course.

87 comments:

Praguestepchild said...

It's not like you personally have the slightest fascist desire to curb free expression on the internet or anywhere else, right? You are just point this out as a public service message. You aren't being passive-agressive or anything, you are just sayin'...

carbsane said...

Fascist? LOL

Praguestepchild said...

Yes, it is funny because it's true.

Mark said...

Facists?? LOL!!


What has happened to Paula Deen is an atrocity!! It reflects the poison that political correctness brings with it and demonstrates the immaturity of our populace. Shame on the Food Network and all the sponsors that have dropped her, I wonder if their houses are in such good order!!


(For the record I'm neither pro or con Paula Deens products shows or anything else.)

Praguestepchild said...

Perhaps you'd like to explain what's not fascist about making snide, veiled threats against free expression on the internet?

Sanjeev Sharma said...

expanding definitions, shifting burden of proof
....
running afoul Godwin's rule with the first comment on a post

Sanjeev Sharma said...

irony

Praguestepchild said...

blindly quoting logical fallacies
......
complete misunderstanding of Godwin's rule


stupid is as stupid does.


--
Is this a poetry contest?


Isn't Evelyn able to defend herself?

Melissa said...

Help help! We are being oppressed because someone might hold us accountable for spewing hateful bullshit!

Jane Plain (Woo) said...

It's a right of passage, Sean. Congrats: Teh Evelyn has added you to her "must sue/must destroy IRL" list.

Jane Plain (Woo) said...

Dear MM,
I am in support of the crusade against misogynistic paleobros, but don't you think it's a little unhinged/insane to threaten to destroy someone's business + livelihood by accusing them of bigotry, simply because you just had a debate about calories on their private blog?

Sanjeev Sharma said...

irony to the Nth power, please keep this up - especially the malice


Anyone who wants, in good faith, to know what fascism is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

https://www.google.ca/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=fascism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&redir_esc=&ei=FIPcUffnCeSkyAG8w4HgBQ

A certain German political party is one of the canonical exemplars of this.

> quoting logical fallacies

infinitely better than committing them

Sanjeev Sharma said...

Is this guy a Nikoley fan/regular or am I confusing the malice with someone else's?

Melissa said...

Yeah, he's a Nikoley cultist http://paleodrama.tumblr.com/search/praguestepchild

Craig_in_CT said...

Food for thought? I suppose.... but what is the lesson you want us to learn?

The story you present suggests that we live in a society where small and probably inconsequential slips by people who later become rich or famous can be blown out of proportion by a media and blogosphere that has a desperate need to fill air time and draw web site hits, thereby destroying careers, empires, and fortunes! So should I shall aspire to always be poor, anonymous, and inconsequential? (Not to suggest that I have any shot at being rich, famous, or consequential....)

Paleo Nouveau said...

Ok.I'm not sure about the article you posted. Stereotypical Paleo is unfounded on science and historical facts, but the essence of eating more vegetables, fruits and leaner cuts of beef from animals that have eaten their natural diets is not far fetched. We can argue it from a historical and survival perspective. Current survival in the wild would require us to get calories from anywhere we could and most importantly those calories would need to be in some close proximity to water. We always argue the evolutionary point of view from a disassociation with reliance on water. Water rules! Food is secondary. What is it that I am missing from this article? Dogma from the Paleo fanatics?

George said...

Sanjeev, the definition of Godwins law specifies Hitler and the Nazis. A reference to fascism as a concept opposed to personal freedom is not an adequate case to invoke Godwin's law, this is no more a reference to fascist movements than calling someone a vandal is a reference to an East Germanic tribe who in 429 under king Genseric entered Africa and by 439 established a kingdom which included the Roman Africa province, besides the islands of Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, Malta and the Balearics. In 455, they sacked the city of Rome.

George said...

Have you ever used the N-word Paula?

Only when I get sick of hearing it on the radio.

Unpaleo said...

Yes, Evelyn is oppressing you. Oppressing you so much in fact, she is not deleting your comments, unlike your rock god, the Dick, who bans comments ad nauseum.


You poor oppressed man.

Praguestepchild said...

And speaking of little fascists, it's Melissa.

Cultist? Paleodrama? Yeah, nothing hateful about that. Melissa writes paleodrama for the good of the future in a purely selfless vein that would make Mother Teresa tearfully hand over her Peace Prize were she only still alive to do so. Nothing petty or vindictive about Melissa and paleodrama.

No, I'm not being oppressed nor do I care about being held 'accountable' by people who try to use political correctness as a silver hammer to police the internet.

Praguestepchild said...

Sort of like how I don't delete her many comments on my blog?



Ask hate speech warrior Melissa about her blog policy and speech she finds disagreeable.

Unpaleo said...

What the hell has that got to do with the price of fish in China?

Praguestepchild said...

You find mentioning other blogs and bloggers to be a non sequitur?


I'll be sure to bring that up next time I prostrate myself before my 'rock god.'

Unpaleo said...

Looks like irrelevance is your forte. Own it. Be proud.

Praguestepchild said...

Can I be proud of making you look like an intellectual midget also?

Unpaleo said...

I should know better than to argue with idiots. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Praguestepchild said...

Says the person who considers "unlike your rock god, the Dick," to be the height of intellectual brilliance.



Keep digging.

Unpaleo said...

Wow. Did you have to dig out your primary school books to come up with that comeback?

Praguestepchild said...

You mean quoting your own idiocy to mock you? Yes, I had to dig into my first grade reader to employ that tactic.

Melissa said...

I didn't see any threats here, just the point that as paleo gets more mainsteam, what people have written in the past might be more carefully scrutinized. Are you referring to Praguestepchild's blog? I don't think that's a private blog- it's on the public web and indexed by Google. However, I doubt it would have much of an impact on paleo's reputation either way because he's just a fanboy.

Melissa said...

You are taking this whole thing way too seriously. I imagine you stay up all night imagining me in a Mussolini costume.


Please look up "fascist" in the dictionary. Your use of it is hilarious except for the fact it's insulting to the people who suffered under actual fascist regimes. You must be an egomanic to compare you being criticized on my blog to that. There is no policing, I don't have that kind of power and neither do you– just pointing out the attitudes that are prevalent in that community.

Melissa said...

Freedom of speech is a policy concern, it has nothing to do with what people do on their private blogs. It's all about you framing your little corner of the web as a grand struggle. People like you are very concerned about private businesses and individuals being able to run them as they please, except when you don't like when they chose to not listen to your egomaniac prattle.

carbsane said...

I saw your blog post. Are you on acid or something?? Seriously Wooo, it is NOT all about you. You and Prague were the FURTHEST thing from my mind when I wrote this post.

I was surprised Prague showed up here in the manner that he did, but now it makes sense. Here I thought maybe someone was being sued by a client at their gym or something and I had hit a nerve. But no, just your hyperactive imagination.



This post was not a threat of ANY sort, veiled or otherwise.

carbsane said...

Do you think this post was about you? Seriously, get a grip. It wasn't a threat in any way shape or form or about any single individual. What it was certainly not about was you.

carbsane said...

One more thing Wooo, IF you were in support of those who have been threatened by the misogynistic paleobros, you wouldn't continue to behave as you do.

Praguestepchild said...

No, when did I ever suggest it was about me?

carbsane said...

I see I'm going to have to respond further to the unwarranted attacks and accusations but I'm not able to do so until later today. Moderation is temporarily on for all.

Praguestepchild said...

If you would like to imagine me staying up all night fantasizing about you, go ahead. It's your imagination.

I honestly could care less about being criticized on your little blog. It doesn't require egomania to notice the autocratic nature of it and Evelyn's post which is the main topic, nor the autocratic nature of PCism in general.

Your faux outrage and concern for "people who suffered under actual fascist regimes" is just plain silly. Talk about people taking things way to seriously.

Praguestepchild said...

Tell me once more what 'people like me' believe and how it is wrong. Please do so using a run-on sentence a throw in the term egomania a couple of times.

Nigel Kinbrum said...

I'm guessing that you haven't read http://www.blacklegalissues.com/Article_Details.aspx?artclid=7dfdbe0461

Rivet Popper said...

How sad and pathetic that Woo and Dick-sucker have to show up here for a stupid internet pissing contest on a blog they don't even agree with. Go home to your buttered coffee guys.

Meanwhile CS, have you seen this? http://carbsane.com/



The fact that some LC loser actually took the time to make this page in order to defame you speaks volumes about the desperation of the faileo/LC bookselling movement...


"Fat gurus? People on long-term LC coming down with signs of severe metabolic (in Woo's case, mental) disorders? Never mind that, CS is crazy!"

George said...

Really people should not call their children "Bubba", this sort of thing always happens.
We have some allegations from one person; will they be supported? This is a civil case, the standard of proof is not as high as it would be for a criminal case. Nothing would surprise me either way.
Ramsey's KKKitchen Nightmares?

George said...

It's fairly common left-wing insult to call authorities fascist, it goes back to the Spanish Civil War.
I never picked Sean for an old-school lefty, but there you go.

Amazeballs said...

I thought Paula Deen was in trouble for organizing an Old South-themed wedding where all of the servers were black?

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

I couldn't agree more. It's yet one more politically correct witch hunt. This one is over use of a word, a word that *some* can use without any repercussions, yet others get crucified for. I loathe and detest the double standards that always come with politically correct bigotry.

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

I honestly didn't see any threats here, Prague, except to expose the snakiness of people like Taubes et al. who say "everything I said about carbs is true, but I really meant sugar".



So what are you referring to, pray tell?

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

Can you point me to where you derided Obama for actually telling a "short bus" joke on national tv? Leno, wasn't it? Not many on this planet deserve protection from abuse more than children with mental retardation, yet the US's race-baiter in chief got away scott-free with his callous bigotry because the liberal media always gives him a pass. Did you object to that, pray tell?

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

In the slew of "gurus" giving health talks on PBS (if you're in America), there is one M.D who focuses on water. He says you should "eat your water", not drink it.

Reminds me of Dr. Batmanghelidj. Might be over emphasized, IMO, except for the chronically dehydrated.

carbsane said...

Well, finally getting a chance to get caught up. It's late. I'm tired. See y'all tomorrow.

Sanjeev Sharma said...

Speaking to the actual issue, if a paleo guru "finds his audience" they'll stick with him forever no matter how well they're debunked.

1 rapid audience acquisition through unrealistic promises

1a small number of critics, some good, some bad

2 plateauing of the numbers

2a larger and better critiques

if the critiques are effective (and also if competitors grab new prospective victims away)

3 slow attrition down to a core group of "true believers"

4 if this provides enough income the guru stays with it for a long time

Sanjeev Sharma said...

thanks.
Of the points I was making, that was one

Sanjeev Sharma said...

PBS ... heh.

I had not watched it for a long time. The last things I remember clearly are Covert Bailey's 80s stint and later, Ken Burns's Civil War documentary.

Then I was at a friend's place around a year ago and he had PBS on - Choprah, Daniel Amen, Wayne Dyer

OMG ... (say it with mouth held in the classic "shock" pose )

OH ... EM ... GEE

Sanjeev Sharma said...

Isn't this standard modern corporate behaviour? They've been run by branding and focus group departments for decades now.

I remember reading about and discussing this type of behaviour in the early 80s

http://www.amazon.ca/Systemantics-Systems-Work-Especially-They/dp/0812906748

https://www.google.ca/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=systemantics&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&redir_esc=&ei=wzveUZqLJLDh4AObqYG4Dg

Like Milton Friedman said in a different context (regulatory agencies) "expecting organizations to behave differently is like expecting a cat to bark"

Sanjeev Sharma said...

Anyone up to tallying the first instance[0] of insults and abuse in each thread?

carbsane said...

Your imagination is in overdrive I see. Good thing you have real job so you don't have time for nonsense like your last post?

Rivet Popper said...

Woo, you are really not well.


What's amazing is that it's not enough that you advertise this to the whole world with your own blog, but you have to go to blogs of those you don't even agree with to further push the message: you are sick.


If this is some means of crying for help, we get it. Now go away.

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

Amen is new to me. PBS gives a wide sampling, anyway, of what's being peddled to older audiences. One critical element is to show audience members nodding in agreement as they absorb what's being dished out. It's all done at a slow pace, and every presenter seems like they've been to pitchman school.

But I've never seen a Paleo on tv. No celebrities raving about it, either, as far as I know.

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

[0] the illegitimate offspring of Howard Stern and Bill Maher, stuck snickering in juvenile mode for eternity.

Nigel Kinbrum said...

Are you referring to Carole Sampson's blog? This is the woman who called Evelyn "a crazed bunny-boiling internet stalker". I think that the part of Carole's brain devoted to storing the word "irony" gave up and committed suicide!

Nigel Kinbrum said...

It's worse than that. See http://carbsanity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/what-paleo-can-learn-from-paula-deen-if.html#comment-957604524

carbsane said...

There is a dot com website dedicated to going through this blog post by post. I'm still in discussions with my attorney on how best to proceed there.

Rivet Popper said...

I only spent about 5 minutes on that POS hatefest, so I don't know who's running the freakshow. I poked around and then left in disgust.


It was all an accident, since I lost this blog's address in a computer upgrade and then had to look it up again. Since this sad loser's site mirrors CS' moniker to attract people looking for Evelyn, you get LC wackville instead of the Asylum...

Amazeballs said...

Thank you! Excellent, excellent link.

This was my first visit to this site, and I was worried for a minute I had stumbled into a nest of Deen-apologists. Worry abated.

Amazeballs said...

They have to censor that word on the radio where I live.

Beth@WeightMaven said...

That just covers the racism alleged in the lawsuit. There's also the sexual harrassment and abusive behavior: http://www.scribd.com/doc/149818525/Paula-Deen-Lawsuit-Original-Complaint-filed-in-Chatham-County-District-Court-Jackson-v-Deen-Et-Al-Complaint

Melissa said...

Yes, I'm *such* an Obama fan. LOL.

Jane Plain (Woo) said...

Dearest Rivet Popper,
Thank you for informing me I am crazy. I have not yet been informed of this by a blogger on their computer, so I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy internet cheerleader/troll schedule to help me and my mental health.



Evelyn herself visited both my blog as well as Praguestepchild , and this occurred *before* either of us came to comment. So, if you are ANGWEE that I am here, it looks like some religious suicide is in order as it was Evelyn herself who opened the dialog.

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carbsane said...

Wooo, your blog post is defamatory. I opened up no such dialog as you are asserting. I didn't see there being any "dust up" on Sean's blog either. I was setting the record straight for where he, frankly, misrepresented me. How your twisted mind got from there to this post threatening him is beyond me. I don't suppose you would consider doing the right thing and removing your post and apologizing. Nah. Keep up the good work and hosting true stalkers and harassers. It suits you well.

carbsane said...

Thanks for these links guys. Beth, that suit is dated March 2011. I'm sure somewhere in her contracts there are the usual "good behavior" clauses. Food Network has had a few issues over the past years, so they were probably aware of this one. They probably were waiting to see if it went forward. It's far more than what happened in the 80's, which I'll highlight in a follow up post when I get a chance.

Rivet Popper said...

Bravo. Please somebody put that raving biatch to sleep already.

kfg said...

". . . the people who suffered under actual fascist regimes."


Yo! Have I got a ticket to ride?

Sanjeev Sharma said...

> every presenter seems like they've been to pitchman school


Can't you just see the PBS Choprah magic water shamwow, and if you buy now you get the Wayne Dyer complementary Couvre spray

Sanjeev Sharma said...

IMHO there's a POE below

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

Sure, and also comment on how Jamie Foxx can say "white bitch" and how much he liked killing white people in his movie and suffered no repercussions whatsoever. Plus amilli9n examples of the double standards of reverse racism.

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

Sanjeev, quick question for you: do absolute beginners in gymnastics start with regular basic exercises such as full-ROM chinups and pushups? Or do they instead start right away with skill training, such as using kipping on rings and therefore not doing traditional full-ROM movements? This is speaking of males and upper body development.

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

Since Nikoley's threatened "war" of defamation is being discussed (okay, mostly by me), you might be interested. That is, unless you are already well versed in concepts such as anti-SLAPP and legally defined malice. I think you were one of his announced victims. I can't recall the 3rd one. I have no idea in what country or U.S. state you live.

Some here:
http://carbsanity.blogspot.fr/2013/07/crying-wolf.htmlhttp://carbsanity.blogspot.ru/2013/07/crying-wolf-ii.html#disqus_thread

Sanjeev Sharma said...

we rarely do chins/pullups. The eastern block expat coaches never demand them.

straight pushups are rare. clapping pushups are more common


I've worked with a bunch of coaches from different backgrounds and there are few regular exercises per se.

At a dedicated gymnastics facility exercises are for warming up, and even in the warmup they move to gymnastic movements pretty quickly.

If you start as an adult it will take a LONG time to even start rings unless you had massive strength to start. Two young men (in their twenties) just recently had to leave for months with shoulder tendintis - they had been asked to not start rings until their handstands, high bar, mushroom and parallel bar work was better

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

Thanks. So that goes against the standard bodybuilder type of advice about so-called perfect form being required on every rep. I was always suspicious of that. I'd take it also that there are never done weighted chinups, yet some guys get rather heavily muscled.

One more question, if you have a minute: is it correct that some do a workout every day, with no rest days? I'm trying to zero in in what strategies can allow for maximal effort (like the iron cross I've seen on tv), yet let you do that without needing rest days. Not doing sets to failure of crosses?

Sanjeev Sharma said...

>against the standard bodybuilder type of advice about so-called perfect form being required on every rep.

Our coaches do a lot of form work. Even if one never competes, bad form (especially if it becomes habit) in one move will hinder later skills and sequences.

Personally I can tell you the major disadvantage we adults have is not in learning new skills quickly but in UNlearning habits. I may have known this before But 2 years of frustration have burned it in my mind.

Every pro coach, working coach and former competitor who coaches I've come across demanded/suggested massive amounts of form work, both in the initial learning and in skill maintenance.


Some internet coaches recommend "bad" form (like handstand with an arched back) for easier initial learning and later refinement. Some of these have reversed the advice (the "beastskills" guy I believe for one) as they got more coaching experience.

>some do a workout every day, with no rest days

the really young guys with huge recovery capacity might go hard a few days at a time. they're light too so I suspect the joint and muscle stress is lower.

the coaches give breaks whenever form deteriorates so I doubt they like going to failure but I haven't discussed that with them specifically

Sanjeev Sharma said...

> let you do that without needing rest days


Best source for this may be Pavel and his "grease the groove" stuff.



AFAIK, In powerlifting and olympic circles never going to failure's been state of the art for years

Glenn Dixon said...

I just assumed you were making a reference to Moore's Duke connection. I've always found it fascinating when people react strongly to discussions about race. Says something, I think...

carbsane said...

I've always found it fascinating when people react strongly to discussions about race. Says something, I think...

I'm not sure what you're getting at there. If people react strongly about race issues it can be for a variety of reasons and I don't think one can tell much especially on the internet.

I was referring in part to various "scandals" and the "shhhhh, don't criticize" atmosphere in the community. Regardless of the outcome of Deen's case, it seems unlikely that she was unaware of issues with Bubba (see other links here in comments) and that restaurant. Yet she didn't cut the ties there or put her foot down and clean management house so her brother's actions weren't her problem. As it is, she's now paying dearly no matter the outcome of this suit for not doing so. In some ways on the face of it she appears to have been prejudged unfairly. OTOH, she seems to have underestimated things a bit.

Glenn Dixon said...

to clarify, I was referring to the dozens of strong responses to your article. It's like bringing up race in a personal discussion, and then someone says "Hey, are you calling me racist?"! When people respond sensitively to the subject of race, it might be because they are, in fact, racist. That's my experience anyways.


I agree with the rest of your comment there, and I think it's healthy to call the paleosalesmen to task for their business associations.

carbsane said...

Thanks for the clarification Glenn. I don't know you so didn't know how to take that. I must admit I was rather blindsided by the response to this.

Myron Schwarzennecker said...

You always have a wide range of knowledge. I have therefore been looking at some of the Russian's videos.

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