A hypothetical.
I don't often appeal to emotion here. I'm not sure this hypothetical technically qualifies as such but here goes anyway.
The Hypothetical:
Imagine if you will your daughter or sister ... feel free to substitute any young woman ever, that you have been close to and cared for in what one might describe as a protective way. She's off to college soon. You worry that if she gets in trouble, and struggles a bit, that she'll have a good support system so far away from home, friends and family. No matter how strong those bonds, you recognize that at that age, some may even disregard those closest to them from "their past". Also, you recognize that at that age, being out from under a parent's ever watchful eye, they may act out of a little rebellion.
If she gets in trouble and starts drinking too much, is there somewhere she can reach out? Perhaps there's a program on responsible drinking (and let's imagine such a thing exists that deals with the reality that college students drink despite being underage in most jurisdictions). So let's say there's this responsible drinking program aimed at both those who choose to drink and those who know them. Students are taught responsible drinking behaviors, how to avoid potentially dangerous situations associated with drinking, and how to tell when they or someone they love are in danger of, or have progressed to, problematic drinking.
Here's the Money Question: Would it be appropriate for the college to hire an alcoholic to conduct such a seminar? You know ... one of those functional kinds? Perhaps one that has even had a DUI? Or how about one that has successfully completed a 12 Step program so they're "clean and sober" yet cannot drink at all themselves. How many reading this would feel comfortable with their young lady loved one going to such a seminar when she got in trouble?
Sorry ... that was more than one question ...
What say you?
I would love it if folks could chime in as to under what circumstances you might find this appropriate and/or why you would not. Keep in mind the target audience of this program. And remember, answer as if it was your "young lady loved one". Yes, I specify gender here because when it comes to drinking on a college campus, young ladies are at greater risk for associated dangers such as: (a) passing out or getting too drunk to consent to sexual advances, (b) making poor choices in accepting a ride from a would be predator, (c) alcohol poisoning due to lower body weight/tolerance in general or (d) being slipped a rufie (date rape drug) in her drink. Obviously there are issues for both genders, but I thank everyone in advance for not "going there" into some gender stereotype fighting and infighting.
Here's the Money Question: Would it be appropriate for the college to hire an alcoholic to conduct such a seminar? You know ... one of those functional kinds? Perhaps one that has even had a DUI? Or how about one that has successfully completed a 12 Step program so they're "clean and sober" yet cannot drink at all themselves. How many reading this would feel comfortable with their young lady loved one going to such a seminar when she got in trouble?
Sorry ... that was more than one question ...
What say you?
I would love it if folks could chime in as to under what circumstances you might find this appropriate and/or why you would not. Keep in mind the target audience of this program. And remember, answer as if it was your "young lady loved one". Yes, I specify gender here because when it comes to drinking on a college campus, young ladies are at greater risk for associated dangers such as: (a) passing out or getting too drunk to consent to sexual advances, (b) making poor choices in accepting a ride from a would be predator, (c) alcohol poisoning due to lower body weight/tolerance in general or (d) being slipped a rufie (date rape drug) in her drink. Obviously there are issues for both genders, but I thank everyone in advance for not "going there" into some gender stereotype fighting and infighting.
Comments
Of course, these are all generalizations, but it really helps if the person can put themselves in their clients' shoes. Maybe they got into a bit of trouble in college but it did not lead to a lifetime prescription of self-sobriety to escape the dire consequence of long-term alcoholism. Perhaps someone with a family member and direct experience of the effects of alcohol on their loved ones. College kids are going to drink no matter what, but at least they can be coached to drink responsibly, know what situations they should avoid, what the warning signs are, and how not to escalate into problem drinking (like weekend binging).
Having said that, I never got any of this advice, and I did binge drink on weekends (and the occasional weeknight), but because I usually got so sick doing it (often that night and always the next day), I was not "able" to become an alcoholic (physiologically speaking). Perhaps it's bad ADH genes that protected me. Now in my late 30's, I can have the occasional beer or alcoholic beverage and leave it at that. Perhaps I am a bad example, but many college binge drinkers do grow up to become responsible adults, regardless of their college drinking behavior. A large proportion of my medical school class were binge drinkers and every single one of them has become a responsible physician with spouses and children - not an alcoholic among them (as far as I know!!). So perhaps these seminars - which did not even exist in my day - are not really that necessary. Nice, but not mandatory. If anything, we had far more access to alcohol because we didn't matriculate (start college) until we were at the drinking age - but now the freshman year is a whole year under the drinking age (and some even more than that). We had plenty of access to cheap and diverse booze, both on campus and off campus.
I fully empathize with what you are going through with respect to your daughter or niece or loved one. But at some point she is going to need grow wings and fly on her own, and you'll have to let her. If you raised her well in the sense that she has the freedom and awareness and independence to say 'no' to dicey situations, then she will self-protect. At this point, there is very little your worrying over it can accomplish, other than to aggravate you. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding the situation - likely I am, as I don't have all the details and don't know what kind of relationship you have with your daughter.
I would hope colleges are more vigilant when they hire people to give health advice. Advice for handling alcohol from someone who couldn't handle it is probably as good as someone who never had a problem. Not only look at the speaker, but look at the audience.
This reminds me a bit of the horrific lectures we got in high school about drinking and driving. The slides were very graphic. I wonder if they give those slide shows today because I can't imagine that parents today wouldn't force the school to allow students to opt out - so kids wouldn't HAVE to be traumatized.
We still drank and drove. Lucky to be alive today, thinking about how much we drank and drove.
If, on the other hand, this is some kind of eating analogy, it's a bad one and I can offer no opinion.
As a former drug addict I can give harm reduction advice to active drug addicts while encouraging any detox efforts. It's a balancing act, and an active (functional) drug addict or an NA member could not manage this. They are both too invested emotionally in their own position to be objective.
In other words you can guide people to learn from their experience, and you can warn them about major hazards, and you can model and describe a happy substance-free life, or a life where substances are in control, but to teach responsible drinking itself... That will always be hard given the motivation for drinking is to shed responsibilities.
Responsible drinking in a school-age setting also means - perhaps more than anything - being responsible for other drinkers, keeping drunk peers safe. There is a risk an alcoholic would be too wrapped up in their own experience to do this aspect justice.
In any case, I agree with some of what you say about AA/12Step. I've known two people who didn't fare well with AA that eventually fixed themselves up by going dry and then slowly incorporperating some alcohol in social situations. It is sad but true that many alcoholics simply need to find a whole new set of friends when they recover through AA. Most need to avoid situations where alcohol runs freely altogether, or if they attend parties friends tend to be uncomfortable drinking around them, there's resentment, all that. Both of these people were convinced that if they took that drink at a party they would inevitably end the night in a drunken stupor after AA -- I do believe there's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy thing there.
Then again I've known people who simply can't ever handle alcohol and for whom AA saved their lives.
I'm afraid you took my post a little too seriously. As stated up front, it was a hypothetical, I don't have a daughter or anyone in mind with this problem. It's actually an analogy I have in mind. But I do think such programs might be a good idea implemented correctly. A few years ago I went to a work party with my husband. We were the oldest people there and most of the attendees were like 20 if that. Some strangers came to the party. Lots of booze. I noticed that this one girl was very drunk. None of her friends she came with seemed to notice. Then I noticed her walking up the driveway with three guys who had come later. I went and asked someone if they knew the guys, if they knew if she knew them, and decided to go get her. I asked them her name, they didn't even know that much. They said they were going to walk her home. I said I'll handle that, please leave. I see a lot of this going on ... I probably did similarly stupid shit in my day and just got lucky, but mostly I've had a pretty good tolerance for alcohol and good friends around when I overdid. Ahhh youth. It's amazing anyone gets old really ;-)
Would you say it's fair to say that an alcoholic might view alcohol with more "skepticism" than your average social drinker? In other words, see the potential for anyone to become an alcoholic and perhaps needlessly focus on this risk and offer up too many dire warnings?
Ahh ... I do follow the news but didn't catch this update to story. It happened a year ago and I do remember something but didn't connect to your reference.
The problem with a lot of this is that one really does never know the truth unless it's on tape in a he said/she said (unless there is sufficient physical force to leave marks). I am in favor of lowering the drinking age and/or allowing older teens to drink in the home etc. Getting blotto for the first time away from home is generally not going to end well unless you luck out with your choice of company.
I do not mean to be dismissive of arguments made by evolutionary psychology, but I am not sure of their value versus more traditional schools of psychology for explaining these disorders.
the ideal would be to expose the at-risk person to useful lessons (Exposure to ex-alcoholics may be a useful part of this) WITHOUT giving them the idea that they are at risk.
Also keep them away from other at-risk individuals (Wilson goes over studies that tested both of these components, the "scared straight"[1] and the social context/milieux, and studies that botched previously successful protocols to tease out helpful and unhelpful components).
Eating disorders I have zero ideas on.
[1] Wilson goes over that famous intevention and descendents and variations, including its "spiritual opposite", which also flamed out spectacularly)
doesn't get talked about enough, thanks for briging it up.
I suspect there are a lot of cultural-inertia and "common-sense"[1] related phenomena preventing widespread adoption.
[1] very common but usually only sensible by accident
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