Smash the Fat Calorie Debate!
Edited and Updated post recording ;-)
Well, we didn't get to chat as much about calories per se as I'd thought, but it was a nice discussion nonetheless, I believe.
Sam is a good sport even though he knows I've been critical of his calorie experiments and even encouraged folks to come check out these posts: That 5000 Calorie Jokesperiment and Low Carb Circus Acts, for example. In some ways I'm frustrated a bit because Sam's schtick is objectively of the calories don't count variety. Further, his first experiment was specifically about not gaining weight overeating a low carb diet, so there's a bit of evasive maneuvering going on IMO. However he is not alone in this -- Exhibit A being Jonathan Bailor -- in dialing it back when discussing it with a critic. So of course calories count, and I'm not sure how well I articulated it (note to self: don't schedule morning interviews just in case you are on crap sleep!!) but I do think I made some inroads on the idea of the biochem being the same in all people.
Some things I mentioned in the interview (I may add more and pin the comment to the top of the list rather than edit in as that seems to revert links to opening in the same window unless I manually change it.)
The Dansinger study, and the tweet about it. The "forgotten" diet comparison study.
Adherence, not diet formulation, predicts weight loss at 1 year. From 1st diet comparison RCT Dansinger 2005 JAMA pic.twitter.com/FSYVRubO0I
— Evelyn (@CarbSane) June 20, 2014
Where to start with links to Shai diet comparison trial, but the Teicholz Shai'ster series is a good one!
And one of the original posts that started it all: Gary Taube$, Shai-ster
The Ebbeling study: What we really learn from Ebbeling et.al.
The NuSI study: Calories ... and Taubes, NuSI, Ludwig & Co.
On Calories In:
More on Calories: A Gallon of Gas is NOT A Gallon of Gas? ... And Other Silly Thermodenyic Arguments
Comments
I would also like to see someone nail a calorie-denier on the Taubesian idea that it's impossible to reduce one's caloric intake whilst eating ad libitum unless it's a low-carb diet. Plenty of experiments have shown that it is possible by adjusting the calorie density of the foods subjects eat (e.g. eating soup, salad or fruit before meals) and by interventions that have nothing to do with water and fiber (e.g. the size and color of plates, slower eating, etc.).
Good luck. I know you'll do well.
Dunno if the second part will follow as easily, but I'll put it on my note pad so if it fits in I'll try and work it in.
I would like to say, however, that as a layperson, I am still confused (as Sam and his audience are likely to be as well) about the difference between biochemistry and physiology. The truck versus weed whacker analogy does help a little bit. But I am still not entirely clear on the matter.
You've done a great job explaining demolishing the "carbs->insulin->obesity hypothesis" in your last two interviews. Thanks. I never fell for it, but I didn't know the exact biochemistry arguments against it.
Sam didn't say much in your interview, or in Stephan's either. He's decent, and he knows the "alternative hypothesis" doesn't stand up to scientific rigour. So he just let you two talk. It doesn't matter. He's still going to tell his clients that "carbs make you fat", and to go keto, then maybe have a potato at lunch. Hey, people *will* lose weight following that advice, so it can't be too wrong ...
Good interview and as you have said, fair play to Sam for having you on, allowing you to talk so freely and, for acknowledging your blog posts which are critical of him. He looked very embarrassed and moved on rather quickly when you mentioned the nuts vs cream issue in his 'experiment'!
I think Sam has reached a bit of a crossroads now.
He's at that awkward point where you cannot really continue to hide behind the pretence of being a disinterested party just asking questions about diet, whilst also making fairly outlandish claims about metabolic advantage and miraculous quick weight loss whilst pushing VLC as THE solution.
However, the big problem is that most of his following and the advice he gives to franchisees is based on just those types of claims. Backtracking is going to be difficult.
His solution to this seems to be a bit of cognitive dissonance.
I've noticed in some recent exchanges he had started to emphasise the satiety aspects of LC and its role in achieving a spontaneous reduction in calorie intake. I thought at first he had experienced an epiphany, but it didn't last as around the same time he still seemed to claiming that on the 'real food diet experiment' he felt his body just burning up the excess calories one night.
I suspect Sam's recent change of tack, the increasing referencing of trial papers and the winding in of the more outlandish claims may have something to do with this http://smashthefat.com/enewsletter-03042014/
Just my opinion, but someone who hasn't resolved these kind of arguments in their own minds really shouldn't be giving advice to anyone, let alone charging for it.
http://instagram.com/p/t-XRqZTJqg/
livinlowcarbman
8 hours ago
"Several years ago I was offered a six-figure, multi-year deal to promote a carb blocker product like this with white bean extract, but I turned them down because this is an asinine idea. Keep eating carbs and this product will block their absorption. Really? How about skipping the culprit carbs? I needed the money at the time, but my integrity is more valuable to me than that."
His INTEGRITY!! ROTFLMAO
To be fair, is this a regular thing in the UK? It would seem like most of the USA gurus couldn't be in business -- or is it that he's franchising his Smash the Fat "method".
I didn't have the energy to combat more (probably wouldn't have come off too well either) on the calorie issue. He says NOW that quantity matters. He has called calories a downright unscientific concept in the past. So ...
One video of his is eerily similar to Bailor's clogged sink thing and I'd have thought Bailor might go after him before any regulatory agency!
When someone says biochemistry, that is the biological chemistry that is going on in our bodies. So one point was that all calories in (once absorbed) are the same to each and every one of us because we all "burn" that fuel the same way. And even heat generated along the way is the same -- it's built into the chemical reactions used to achieve the goal.
So the individual differences are at the physiological level -- the control and partitioning of energy. Regarding partitioning, this is not nearly as variable as the metabolic advantage crowd would like folks to believe either. We all have limited glycogen stores and fat tissue is the intended depot for long term storage of energy. Some seem to have more finely tuned homeostatic mechanisms than others. But let's just say that you can't make Person A look like Person B by feeding them B's diet!
As far as I know, other than appetite (perhaps), insulin is not implicated as a long term energy regulation hormone. It really is the beat cop enforcing the physiological laws established by "governing bodies" (e.g. the hypothalamus).
Also, he's currently taking advertising dollars for the KetoShred supplement which is a total rip off.
Shawn @KingCobra2Kx 55m55 minutes ago
@livinlowcarbman I'm surprised to see mashed potatoes
Reply
Retweet
Favorite
More
Jimmy Moore @livinlowcarbman 48m48 minutes ago
@KingCobra2Kx On PHD, it's part of the plan. I'm testing blood sugar later.
This is a paleo meal? Inspired by evolution, breast milk and all that jazz?
I note that in a recent podcast he is again referring to himself as insulin resistant. I thought keto cured all of that?
Yeah, I remember those things back in the early 80's too. Perhaps it was a conspiracy with evil Big Pharma. After all, they've probably made a killing on Acarbose :-)
My Bibimbap lunch on Sunday at the #PerfectHealthRetreat: white rice, greens, meatloaf, kimchi, butter, berries, sour cream, egg yolk, lemon and lime juice, & more! Tasted great too. (For all my #lowcarb and #ketogenic fans, no, this is neither. But I'm trying it all this week to see how I do).
livinlowcarbman@lizzie_liz13 No need to be confused. I'm at Paul Jaminet's #PerfectHealthRetreat this week where he incorporates starch. I'm skeptical but willing to try it for a week.
sarahstanley_Organic sprouted grains and organic legumes can be part of a wellness lifestyle.
livinlowcarbmanNot my plan...just sharing what Paul Jaminet is doing.
On the bright side, I'm not hungry and feel great.
Billy the K, a regular commenter here shared some excellent papers by Himmsworth that explored this very issue. Excessive carbohydrate restriction has longer-term affect on glucose and lipid homeostasis that'll take more than a few weeks to resolve . . . maybe even longer.
I was also going to comment on the other photo. PHD's ratios are actually still rather low on the carbohydrate spectrum. Many folk with healthy glucose and insulin function don't produce that kind of one-hour glucose response to a PHD meal where the primary caloric fuel is fat while protein and carbohydrate combined are restricted to a 150 gram window.
Sorry. Bored.
Post a Comment
Comment Moderation is ON ... I will NOT be routinely reviewing or publishing comments at this time..