Weight Loss Advocacy
Should I post the real version of this?
Let's imagine that Jane Smith has a bit of a weight problem growing up, gets married, has a couple of kids and some acknowledged issues with "emotional eating". Jane has tried everything and nothing else seemed to work. Around a decade ago, at 180 lbs, she discovers Weight-B-Gone, just enough different that she decides she might as well give it a try. Over the next year following the WBG program, Jane loses 45 lbs. Jane loves the WBG! Woo hoo! Jane keeps the weight off for six months but then some life issues arise. She stops going to the gym regularly and does the diet plan half-assed on and off for several years. Four years later she finds herself weighing in at 210 lbs.
Recalling how well WBG worked the last time, Jane rededicates to the program losing 50 lbs and weighing 160 lbs by the end of the year. Jane is so excited about this she decides to join the blogosphere and share her experiences with others. She's even featured on the WBG website as a weight loss success story! A year later, it appears Jane has regained the most of the weight again, almost another year passes and she's weighing at least 210 lbs again, probably more. As luck would have it, one of the WBG founders comes out with a new diet plan Weight-B-Gone-Ultimate! ... just what the doctor ordered, Jane enthusiastically signs up sometime late in the fall. By January she's down 25 lbs and going strong, hoping to lose more an upcoming class reunion in March. Returning from the reunion she's more excited than ever to reclaim her WBG success. But success eludes Jane and she again regains the weight. During this entire saga Jane maintains her blog earning some sponsorship dollars from WBG and online retailers selling WBG-friendly products as she extolls the virtues of WBG and all its healthy goodness. Perhaps prompted by some grumblings about the web, at some point, Jane decides she should come clean with her readership: WBG is not working for her ... or rather she's not working the WBG program the right way ... or whatever. She's gained all the weight back. She's starting over again. By all indications, it does not appear to be working any better now, yet Jane continues on, even revamping the website and granting interviews. Oh ... I forgot, Jane has done several interviews discussing her wonderfully successful WBG lifestyle linked proudly to on the website.
Lisa Leesa, mom of three has struggled with her weight for several years. She sees a commercial for WBG-Success! , their latest program. It's a DVD set with online support. Looking for information on WBG, Lisa puts WBG into her search engine box and hits the "go" button. One of the first hits is Jane's website. She reads around and listens to the interviews ... sounds like just the plan. Lisa buys the DVD set based mostly on Jane's enthusiastic endorsement and also buys some WBG friendly products.
Does it matter to you whether or not Lisa achieves success? Should Jane not be held to the same standard we would hold any other less-than-forthcoming representative of a weight loss plan? In answer to my own question, I think I should post the real life Jane saga. No doubt I'll catch flack for being mean or vindictive or whatever from the usual suspects. But I think Lisa deserves the truth before parting with her money. What say you?
Comments
Whether or not it's a sustainable program is another story, and likely an individual matter. That's the problem with one size fits all programs-They are not sustainable for all people, because people are so different. With this in mind, all programs probably work (as long as they respect thermodynamics that is) if a person can stick to it long enough. WBG is no different. But the best programs are the sustainable ones and this requires an individualized approach and a lot of discipline and mental toughness.
I'm very curious about this. I'm under the impression that JM has stuck consistently with LC or even VLC. Is this true?
Thanks for the input Nance. What's odd in the case I have in mind, and others (there are a lot of regulars on discussion boards in similar situations), is that ultimately these folks can claim they were up front because here or there they updated their status even if not including exact weights and pictures.
As Thomas points out, Jane's experience with WBG is not an indictment of the WBG program. Obviously it was effective for her to a point. But as I've always said, the old ELMM works every time it's tried too ... it's all about sticking with something. And yet that's what I find most troubling for some LC'ers -- so many who do stick with it see diminishing returns and relapses.
Jimmy claimed last year that he still wasn't convinced that calories had anything to do with it. HUH???
It was pretty obvious to me that people in the paleosphere were using IF to flatten out their consumption and certainly for me thinking of caloric intake in terms of 'for the week' instead of by day is helpful and it appears to be helpful for others as well. But of course it is a way of managing intake and reward.
Everyone in the sphere I read (the paleosphere) who is successful at maintaining their weight losses and body composition changes (usually to more muscle) moves more and manages their intake relative to that activity level. Which should tell people something.
Lisa isn't entitled to anything from Jane including honesty and Jane isn't entitled to anything from Evelyn including secret keeping.
I like that in your example you have people with a LIFE problem trying to resolve it by controlling their DIET. If that isn't inherently a set up for an ED I don't know what is.
It is no wonder that people fail at their diets because I have listened with keen interest and their experiences sound miserable. I wouldn't do it either. Even my marrow deep vanity wouldn't keep me going the distance, no way. I wouldn't volunteer to do a cardio session with an 80+ pound weight strapped to my back and I don't blame anyone who balks at the notion one bit.
On the other hand though I can't pretend I don't see a lack of self nurturance among overweight individuals that will also not be cured by changing the foods they overeat. I could snoop around the kitchen if I were bored even if there were nothing in there but hard boiled eggs, unsalted. I don't know anyone who doesn't.
People compromise so much and for so many reasons it's impossible to really generalize except to say that in my observation people who struggle with weight REALLY tend to compromise to such an extent that even asking what they WANT rather than what they don't want will be met with a deer in the headlight blank stare.
Who drives 40 miles to the nearest indoor pool at these gas prices? I do. Not to do boring "laps" either. Cannon balls off the diving board followed by deep conditioner in the dry sauna. I also have a gym membership at a different location and continue my ballet hobby. The question imo isn't "who does that?!!" it's what would I do if I DIDN'T do that?
I can tell you what I *did* do during the short period of time I was still timid about getting my needs met. I watched a lot of TV and ate a lot. I was lonely and bored and I didn't enjoy my life being married with kids and I felt really guilty about it. I loved my husband and I loved my kids but the minutes of my day were miserable and I felt guilty about that too. Suggestions from other women I knew in first and second position? Crafts and baking. Where's that puking emoticon when you need it?
I have even attended what can only be described as mom play dates in which we fail to distinguish between having a child and being a child. Glue guns and puff sticker fridge magnet photo crafts kiss my @ss. If I knew it was going to be like that I'd want a shot of vodka or possibly a cyanide capsule handed out at the door.
It's a fact that I have more time constraints than I used to and my dollars stretch between more people. I excluded a lot of things I used to really enjoy and went for things I knew were a "10". My days...the minutes of my days...look a lot different than they did when I gained weight and I'll bet they look a lot different than other women who do as well.
Notice that none of the things I mention had anything to do with food or body image? It was like that when I was at my leanest and most athletic too. My head was full of tulle and paper flowers. The magic of the performance, the fun of the pool, the blasting music at the gym, the penetrating heat of the sauna. Joking with friends. A new book from my fav bookstore. Looking forward to what's next on a regular basis. I accept I have some hedonistic tendancies but they have worked out for me more often than not. It was the reverse that let me down on a regular basis.
By going Primarian earlier this year, my husband found a really lean setpoint. He literally eats ad libitum (often 7, 8 times a day, snacks at will, and I keep a lot of food handy for when he gets the food urge). And he stays withing a 2 pound weight window. If he goes hungry, missing even one snack, he loses. It's amazing when one's body is in sync--hunger with ideal lean weight.
Me, I have to be cautious, count calories. If I ate ANYWHERE CLOSE TO AD LIBITUM, I'd be big as a barn again. Shoot, if I ate 1700-1800 and more calories I'd start gaining steadily until I hit whatever that supported.
So, clearly, some folks are blessed with finding an eating path (in hubby's case, very low starch, but full of carbs from fruit and veggies) that sustains that great link-up of hormonal cues/hunger/etc. I mean, he has people asking him all the time how he can eat so much and stay skinny. They remember him 60+ pounds heavier, eating all the time (but different foods) and NOT being skinny.
Is there some ideal way of eating that will allow ME Ad Libitum: I highly doubt it. I assume I will calorie count for life. Sucks, there ya go.
And your description sounded like Amy D. Not sure if that is who you meant....
But I do think that if you're blogging and touting a plan and linking for profit, you should have a very high level of authenticity and the expected "reveal". Make me empress, and all weight loss bloggers who affiliate for profit would have to do monthly full body shots, front and side. :D
As always, buyer beware. Lisa really needs to know the truth about Jane so she can make an informed decision. Since Jane clearly isn't going to tell the truth, then we definitely you, CarbSane, to do it for her! Save Lisa! Save us from the delusion! :)
Brilliant!
For example, on the TNT TV show Leverage the other night, the protagonist, Nate, is asking a young, skinny, female chess champion what she is afraid of. "Carbs" is one of the answers she gives. I am afraid that carbs are being demonized the same way fat has been demonized.
Yeh, every diet works until life gets in the way. Most need ways to deal with this without turning to food or stopping exercise programmes. Lots suck at maintenance.
There's always the disclaimers on such websites and I don't think companies care and vice versa. CarbSmart which seems to sponsor every low carber out there at one time or another is run by an obese man. Perhaps I'm jaded by my shock and awe when I saw pics from the LC cruise in 2009. Honestly, had I found LLVLC just a wee bit sooner I might have gone on that cruise. I looked into the rates for 2011 and rates for just the cruise and the "markup" is quite substantial. So I don't know how the "experts" are compensated, etc., but you're paying quite a premium for those lectures. Had I shown up in 2009 -- before I was jaded by the sheer volume of bad science -- I would have asked for my money back. I'm surprised nobody has sued yet.
Speaking of weight loss programs and maintenance, I've never gotten the celeb endorsement thing in terms of convincing people. I mean Larry the Cable Guy is back to doing Prilosec commercials instead of NutriSystem. NS has a new "long term success" program out being hawked by Janet Jackson. It ends with her saying "I'm on it and I'm already seeing results" ... ummm ... how can you promote a long term solution w/o some sort of long term results?
Oh ... and Princess, I hereby dub you Empress of the Weight Loss Web! I don't know if monthly updates are necessary, but at least update the avatar here and there when it no longer resembles you. This recycling of old pics is ridiculous!
I thought Jimmy looked a bit heavy in his various YouTube pieces he used to post, but I'm all too aware of how the camera adds pounds to some more than others (I think anyone with face/chin fat has that magnified for instance) so I cut him some slack in my mind figuring it was the webcam angle and such. Then I saw this (Jan 2010):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDxAc60fySY
I thought to myself that this Jamarcus guy must have been like Wha??
I know you seem to focus on low carb, but I was thinking since you're mainly anti-dogma, I wonder if there are any low-fat, or [insert other extreme diet] celebs out there that have done this same yo-yo-ing. Or is it just low carb that inspires this wacky behavior? In my brief searching I couldn't find any low fat celebs that have regained. Susan Powter and Richard Simmons still look slim, but I'm not familiar with very many of them.
Other diet gurus who've backslid? Well, this is where I think Oprah shouldn't give out advice. But then low carbers are pretty brutal to her, and presume if only she'd go low carb she'd be a skinny minny. And see, that's just the thing about most of my LF icons (even though I don't espouse the diet) -- Denise Austin looks phenomenal, Jenny Craig too. It's like if Tony Little showed up looking like Fat Bastard in some Inside Edition expose, would anyone buy the Gazelle 9.9?
For all their mockery of Jillian (and there's an unmistakeable sexist streak there with FatHead, Gary & Co.) she's not stupid about what works!
Are you familiar with DietGirl? She lost a lot of weight, only to a normal slightly voluptuous size, who maintained for three years then regained. It's RIGHT THERE on her about page. No guessing, wondering, etc. THAT is awesome and worthy or respect!!
I wasn't aware of DietGirl, and I think she looked great at a size 14. At 50 pounds heavier I'm not sure where that would put her now. But, yes it is amazing, and very cool she would admit that.
"I thought Jimmy looked a bit heavy in his various YouTube pieces he used to post, but I'm all too aware of how the camera adds pounds to some more than others (I think anyone with face/chin fat has that magnified for instance)"
For sure, I can tell by looking at their face that someone isn't lean but that is a far cry from overweight or obese. I am a member in good standing of the round face club and direct people to look at the 30 bad "freelee" as an obvious example. Her entire body looks like it's starting to get emaciated. Especially in the arms even on camera...but there's those cheeks round as apples all the same. JM never got lean he got less fat so I'm not suprised that his face reflected that. I know mine would.
"People compromise so much and for so many reasons it's impossible to really generalize except to say that in my observation people who struggle with weight REALLY tend to compromise to such an extent that even asking what they WANT rather than what they don't want will be met with a deer in the headlight blank stare."
Simply brilliant. More, please.
Bentley, I also enjoyed what you said above. Today I stumbled on and ordered a book called Nice Girls Finish Fat, which deals with the issue of not taking care of yourself and thus turning to emotional eating.
I will, of course, read the follow-up "naming names" post with great relish.
And that's my passive-aggressive "it's all your fault if it blows up" contribution to the discussion!
I get confused when I sit on the train listening to obese individuals having a 15-min. conversation about holiday baking/eating, which then immediately yet effortlessly segues into a conversation about weight loss/dieting. It's like the irony totally escapes them. And what disturbs me even more is that I bet some orthorexic paleo/LC'er sitting where I was would have just thought, 'oh yeah, those baked goodies would be perfectly fine if you subbed out some flour for almond flour' or something.
@Evelyn - Please do follow through with Zee Great Reveal. Not solely for the purpose of theatrics, of course--but because it's not just 'a whole generation of DIETERS' that gets messed up, but even people who probably shouldn't have started a 'diet' in the first place.
J Clin Invest. doi:10.1172/JCI59660.
Obesity is associated with hypothalamic injury in rodents and humans
Gys
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or copy & paste
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/59660/pdf
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/59660
Benefits of Glutathione
My conclusions (which apply only to me), I offer no advice:
I have found an eating strategy which satisfies me without any stress or discomfort. Success fits well with Stephan’s view on hormonal and mind effects. I am very pleased with improvements on health-markers and given my satisfaction with the tasty and satiating food (high fat as ratio but not in absolute) I do not need to engage in any mind tricks. Caloric intake is key and lower than I expected or is generally advised for healthy normal weight persons. I have been unable to accurately gage calories without diligently using a scale and a daily record. I am agnostic about general diet advice, particularly the very prescriptive ones, without conducting my own experiment. The theories advanced here and elsewhere have been useful for me only to me only to the extent that they suggest possible experiments. Hairsplitting discussions by amateurs in the nutrition field have not been useful for me. The Jaminets’ book was a good starting point however. It is very possible that my glucose metabolism is disregulated (although my BG is normal) and that it may improve in the future so that I can enjoy carbohydrates without restriction.
I can't imagine being Oprah and being the butt of all those jokes so publicly, all those years, for being fat.
It seemed like she did very well wtih Bob Greene for a while, BUT! he had her on a really strict "personal contract" where she couldn't vary from her diet. I remember her saying that when she was going to the Oscars, she asked Bob if she could break her contract to have a glass of champaign, and he said no. Now that arrangement was a recipe for disaster.
It is ridiculous to consider there is a food anybody can't live without if it is not something essential and necessary for health. From that sort of mentality most trouble with diets start, leading to low-carb cakes and low-fat cookies. It is better to find out how to put food in the proper place in one's life. Cookies don't worth to be incorporated into anybodies diet.
In any case, I didn't follow her various downs and ups after the size 10 Calvin Klein wagon of fat thing. It's too bad Greene was so restrictive. That explains a lot. Heck ... I'd have let her have the whole bottle so long as the buzz didn't lead to eating a whole lot.
I've always felt for the Oprah's and the Kirsties etc. of the world it has got to be incredibly difficult to struggle with weight. What with when Jessica Simpson or Brittany putting on a few pounds getting trashed as big fat slobs. Personally I think Oprah should have left that topic alone a bit more, but on the other hand I recall balling my eyes out for a very obese woman she had on once who related her problems using public rest rooms, etc.
@Galina: Didn't you just have cheesecake for your birthday? That is having the food for a proper reason. An occasional indulgence for celebration is nothing wrong. It's far healthier than never having something because there's NO utility to it if that means one eventually "falls off the wagon" for days, weeks, months on end. And it's far better than, as you say, finding everyday substitutes for some "bad" food that are seen as "good" because they are low fat or low carb, etc.
Gasp !![staggers with a stake through her heart]
I don't want to live in a world with no cookies forever :)
Anyway what I was saying is that eat whole foods that you love. No point trying to stick to low carb if every few months or so you binge and go off track. Eat lower calorie during the week to be able to have that cookie or pizza on the weekend. Don't make any foods off limit.
And Galina relax about food don't get too uptight about it.
And what happens to me.
The problem I'm seeing now, however, (the WOED post) is that folks now convert and stick to some WOE instead of viewing it as a diet -- good usually -- but either they can't actually do that WOE or it's not working for them.
Are you currently trying to lose weight?
Yes, I am.
Jennifer:
“I was eating about 1500 calories a day. I aimed for 75 grams carbs, 75 grams protein and 100 grams fat. This worked well for me. Today, now that I am doing a lot more strength training, I eat a lot more protein.”
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-weight-seemed-to-just-shed-off-effortlessly/comment-page-3/#comments
She is 5' 7" - went from 177 to 138 in 3 months I think.
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