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Friday, April 27, 2012

Carnie Wilson: Undergoing second WLS

With all the recent discussion on losing weight, exercise, bariatric surgery etc. here at the Asylum, I was reminded of this short post I intended to make on Carnie Wilson.  I had seen her on Fox & Friends with Wilson Philips promoting their new album.  Her's is a cautionary tale but also goes to show there's more to this obesity thing than many folks seem to want to acknowledge or talk about.  


For those not familiar with her story, this article offers some details and is the source of the image at right.   Not only did she have gastric bypass surgery, but she had considerable cosmetic procedures afterwards to remove loose skin.  In a way, Carnie "had it all" a decade or so ago.  I'd read how she struggled with regain appearing on Celebrity Fit Club reality show 5 years later.  Hadn't seen much from her until she popped up on Game Show Network hosting The Newlywed Game in 2009.  Then came her reality show on GSN called "Unstapled" (though there was no indication she'd had surgery reversed).  I blogged on this a while back.  In a nutshell, she attempted to lose weight during that show engaging the services of a trainer and even Dr. Oz.  In the end, she didn't make much headway.  

I feel for this woman, as I do Kirstie and Oprah and countless others who've lived their weight struggles out in public.  Watching a few episodes of Unstapled it became apparent that Carnie's problems are largely in her head.  NOT "psychological problems" but in her mindset that she's developed going through all of this.  I also remember her having eggs in several baskets with two shows on GSN, some bakery business she was trying to do and something with QVC that I can't remember (clothes?).  Not sure how much was "reality" but financial troubles were discussed.   Then she's got the usual life stuff of a husband and two small children.  Still, and I'll probably get some flack for saying this, Carnie repeatedly came off as making excuses for herself.  In a way it's almost as if she piled so much else on her plate to avoid focusing on her ballooning weight.  While I thought Oz was a little rough on her, it was a "reality check" Carnie seemed to tune out.  Getting unceremoniously fired from GSN no doubt took its toll.  She definitely fell off the food wagon in the interim.  

So with the launch of a new album and yet another reality show -- this time on TV Guide channel with Wilson Philips -- we learn that she is going to undergo a second WLS.  This saddens me but doesn't surprise me.  She had already undergone the surgery before the tour was launched -- a gastric sleeve.  You see, GBP works in part by giving you such a small stomach that you'll literally get sick if you overeat, etc.  It forces dietary change on you, though the restriction is easier than it would be without the surgery.  It changes your body, but not your mind or mindset.  I know a few people who've undergone GBP in real life or online sufficiently well to verify current status.  Sadly, too many regain a lot of the weight.  They learn to "eat around" the surgery ... and once you learn to do that, the magic of GBP for weight loss seems to evaporate into thin air.  This is yet another reason why I'm not convinced that blood glucose levels have much if anything to do with weight gain or loss.  I'd like to see the 10 year follow-up statistics -- which is a milestone Carnie has passed.  

But judging from her "already 30 lbs lost" appearance on F&F, it's clear that Carnie lost control over more than her weight and ate around her surgery even more.  But I'm not keen on her given reason for undergoing another WLS:
The singer went on "Today" Tuesday to announce that her choice had nothing to do with aesthetics, and everything to do with her discovery that she was a borderline diabetic last year.
Uggh.  This is the whole prediabetes scaremongering.  I saw the episode when she went on Oz.  Her glucose was not even fasting and ... ooooohhh ... was 100 with normal blood pressure.  Is it really necessary to scare the overweight into submission to believe we must all be "ideal" weight??  So now she gets a gastric sleeve and she'll likely get down into the 170's ... that's my prediction.  And unless she deals with the other reasons for her weight ballooning under stress, she'll be back up again at some point, though I hope for her sake that prediction is wrong.    Of course I can just hear the muttering under their breath going on in low carbers over this.  If only Carnie would go LC she'd be cured.  Sounds like she did for 100 days on Celebrity FitDay.  

Carnie Wilson is my poster girl for what is wrong with the greater community seeking to come up with some sort of biochemical/hormonal/toxin/etc. etiology of obesity.   If it were carbs and insulin Jimmy would be 200 instead of 300 lbs and low carb diet doctors wouldn't be repeatedly having to rededicate themselves to their own dietary prescriptions.  If it were just eating less and moving more, Kirstie would still be doing Jenny commercials and Larry the Cable Guy would be doing the same for Nutrisystem.  The list could go on, and this is why I'm always reserved when it comes to weight loss success stories.  Not because I'm not rooting for these people, but because those who do maintain over the truly long haul have managed to change behavior through changing their mindsets.  Changing a mindset is NOT the same as making a "lifestyle" out of a dietary composition.    I don't know if Carnie is trying to fool us with the talk of "it's about health", or trying to fool herself, because her health "scare" is not your usual sort of immediately life threatening "a ha" moments.  I wish her well in gaining control over this beast.

Edit in:  I almost forgot!  Jimmy was a call-in to Dr. Oz with Carnie and it's on YouTube.  She discusses carbs and such and trying to find a balance.  And I love how in 2010 when Jimmy was in the 280's, he was still touting losing almost 200 lbs and "keep doing what works for you".  Gosh this guy needs to take his own advice, with the caveat to stop doing what's no longer working!!

52 comments:

bentleyj74 said...

"It's in your head" doesn't necessarily mean you are hearing voices and levitating it means that's where your primary obstacles are. That's met with a lot of anger imo not because it isn't true but because...deep down...we all know it in regard to ANY personal challenge and it hits some nerves.

You don't have to read very much of what JM writes to be tipped off that he's a near professional sympathy seeker or that he likes to get high with binges. His lists of rules for righteous eating SUPPORT both of those behaviors and keep him enslaved. It doesn't mean there's nothing to be said for good food choices but even those mostly harmless guidelines will be distorted to serve the dysfunctional behavior...it will not have the power to correct it by itself.

I've known someone who has now had two bariatric surgeries [and know exactly what you mean when you say eat around it] who has spent the last few decades still obese because she wanted a magic cure but did NOT want to learn how to live without using food as a drug. The surgery was a tool for avoidance FOR HER and was an expensive waste of time. Are there people who will capitalize on it? Sure, and in those cases it will probably help them out a lot. 99% head game no matter what.

When the things that you WANT to do harm you it's probably going to take more than a list of rules to untangle that knot. Getting your life...either back or for the first time...is like being born and seeing the world with new eyes.

Getting some help and direction in controlling the environment that's controlling you is good advice not an insult imo :)

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I think you can tell how right someone is by how angry others get by the suggestions they make. Just look at the vitriolic poo flung at Stephan for just relating the research on food reward. And, unfortunately "all in your head" somehow gets confused with thinking you must have psychological problems, as in of clinical proportions. Sometimes help is needed, sometimes just separating yourself from toxic group think might do. I believe this is the case with some of the long time almost success stories in the LC community.

Professional sympathy seeker. Nail, head!

Princess Dieter said...

I saw a couple episodes of Unstapled, and frankly, yes, Carnie is all about excuses--from all angles, past and present. But let's face it, when you are a person prone to overeating/binge eating, starting a cake business is...insanity. It's just nuts. It would be like me starting a pizza business. Just buy me XXXXL clothes again right now if I do that. Some of us have to stay away from certain things, period.

I read widely for years trying to sort out my own issues keeping me obese, then morbidly obese for decades. Yeah, it's in my head, and I don't just mean my ocd and neuroses. I mean when I stepped back from the hyperpalatable foods after reading THE END OF OVEREATING, it became much, much easier to lose weight and stop binge-ing. I kept telling folks that I thought there was something to that, and to at least TRY it. Eating simpler foods. They don't HAVE to be uber-food-reward-plan bland, just whole and simpler and, preferably, home-cooked for control of things like salt/oil. And for those with prediabetes like I had, carb control can be very good. I was able to get my blood glucose back in the normal range from 123 just by reconfiguring meals, cutting out sugar, and using cinnamon and ALA. With only a 5 lb weigh loss on a 300 lb me. So, food changes can begin to heal, food quality, some supplementation.

But exercise, better food, simpler food, whole food, rest, destressing--you know, all that OLD advice about eating better, working out, and dealing with issues. It's still gonna come back to that.

BTW, that honeymoon for GBP seems to be about 2-3 years. When I notice bloggers going silent or struggling or talkign about regain or getting vexed with weight again after GBP, it seems to be at the 3ish year mark. Of course, the first 1 to 2 years are the magic times. Magic times don't last. Eventually, it comes back to watching food/calories and exercising. Like always.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

PS After I edited in the video, I couldn't he'p myself but to click on the mashed cauliflower video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=uLvW7z7_0Ks&NR=1) and cuz I'm a sucker, french toast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTr4IFb6oxQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1). His "rules" allow unlimited use of butter -- amazingly ridiculous amounts of butter on top of butter and sour cream and cream and fatty bacon and .... Convenient :-)

ProudDaddy said...

My neighbor and her husband both had GBP, lost a good bit of weight, had tummy tucks, and started to regain. Several months ago they bought gym memberships. They plan on visiting it any day now.

Lesley Scott said...

Also with gastric bypass, I remember a podcast interview with Emily Deans where she was talking about the fact that the surgeries that focus on this seem to be correlated with mental health problems & even higher rates of suicide, especially in the long time - that magic 10 year mark you mentioned. So when you say her "problems are in her head" what Dr. Deans had discussed immediately jumped to mind.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I'm glad that I know others who've undergone GBP b/c in 2006-7 I contemplated it. When I saw that it wasn't a lasting solution for too many I went into my HAES phase where I decided I'd have to learn to be a happy person at my size. But that's not me. I'm not where I'd ultimately like to be, but my head is if that makes any sense.

AgingHippie said...

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/04/weight-loss-reduces-biggest-losers.html

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/04/24/jc.2012-1444

http://bariatric.susanmleach.com/the-biggest-loser-destroys-participants-metabolisms/

http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/1/22.long

Long-term changes in energy expenditure and body composition after massive weight loss induced by gastric bypass surgery

Case in point? That picture up above, that's Eric Chopin. He was the winner of the third season of the Biggest Loser. He lost just over 200lbs. A few years later he was on Oprah to talk about his massive regain. Think Eric dropped the ball? Not me. I think the Biggest Loser provided him with a nonsensical and metabolically dangerous approach to weight management, and in the process, stacked his deck entirely against him.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Sigh! I remember the episode when someone (the freakish looking Aunt?) or other tried to convince her that the business wasn't a good idea. From what I remember it wasn't exactly lucrative. Her response was something about how she had a sugar free line. The one episode I wanted to see was when they locked her cabinets b/c I saw the preview and thought "this is nuts". If you've got the stuff in your dang house ... get it the F&$^#% out!!! INSANITY!

Unknown said...

Maybe she just doesn't mind being fat

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I've got the full study on TBL and I'm not sure metabolism tanking is close to the full picture. I've only watched a half dozen or so scattered episodes of the show -- counseling does not appear to be a bit part of it. Yes, TBL program is nonsensical for transitioning to the real world, but metabolically dangerous? Not so sure about that. TBL is a challenge show -- and with each season I think it attracted more and more desperate people willing to do more and more on camera for the glory of winning. I really get disgusted at this aspect of the show. Just because folks go into things willingly doesn't make taking advantage of it right. It's like what's next, Cancer Survivor? I don't think the camera drama helps anyone either ... but it makes for good entertainment?

BTW, I weighed 200-210 size 14/16 before I first went low carb. Lost 40 lbs in several months and got down to size 8's. Drifted off. Within 2 years I weighed in at 267 wearing 20W's which was already after starting a weight loss plan. So I guess if we're going to go "there", almost 2 decades of yo-yoing never got me but a few pounds over 210. One stint on Atkins .... Is Atkins metabolically dangerous? Actually, I'd say yes, to some extent!

bentleyj74 said...

"It's like what's next, Cancer Survivor?"


Running man?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Nah ... If you could watch one episode of Unstapled (doubt they're still available online), I doubt you'd conclude that. That said, she may well be content at a higher weight like 180's ... and there's where the celebrity comes in too. I don't care how comfy you are in your skin, it's gotta be hard being professionally linked to one normal weight and one skeletor.

bentleyj74 said...

I looked at the you tube snip from the pantry raid. Her not so terribly buff "trainer" said her biggest problem was the empty calories coming from gluten. Yep. That's what he said. Yes, really.

Steph said...

It's sad - she must have had a weird upbringing, with her dad (Brian Wilson) this tortured, drug-addicted, could-barely-get-out-of-bed-for-years genius. I imagine also there's a genetic component, both for the mental stuff and the tendency to gain weight.

Woodey said...

I can't stand TBL either. I have seen a few episodes and the trainers actually try to act like counselors and poke around until they get some sob story about what caused the obesity. It really chaffs my fanny that they equate obesity as being emotionally broken.

For whatever reason Carnie's body wants to grow, I could speculate but...I dunno. It does make me mad that she is relying on surgery and using it as a crutch, at least that is how it appears.

Of all the people in the public eye that got the surgery and seems to be making the most of it is Al Roker. I've seen him at times where his body has started to grow but he stays on top of it and shrinks it back down. I've never seen him let it get back out of hand though.

Woodey said...

Her dad has the body type where he easily gains, but he also is able to lose as well. Carnie seems to have inherited that body type as well.

Woodey said...

Enjoyed post until you mentioned Jimmy. God I have heard enough of him to last a lifetime. What a weasel. I would have asked him how much he weighed and why LC was failing him. Then if he blamed his damaged metabolism I would have asked how he was able to lose it in the first place. If he tried to dance around that I would have asked if LC was then responsible for his damaged metabolism and should it therefore be avoided.

bentleyj74 said...

Eh, just another page from the chronicles of The Diet That Can Fix Everything Except When It Usually Can't.

Woodey said...

Well said.

Princess Dieter said...

I saw an interview with him when he started to regain and got ON TOP OF IT...exercise, diet. He has to work it. Honeymoon was over and that's when GBP folks have to do what everyone else does.

I decided against GBP (and I was desperate and strongly researching it and the lap band) because I saw some complications, some regains, and some scar stats on nutritional deficiencies. I also saw the crap a lot of post-GBP folks were subsisting on to keep the weight off ( a lot of bars, protein shakes, processed low carb foods, etc). I was horrified. I refuse to live on stuff like that. I'd rather be fat, frankly.

On real food, I am not lean. I'm 179 lbs, I exercise and am pretty strong for a 52 year old who abused her body for 2 1/2 decades of junk and obesity. But I'm not LEAN, and probably never will be. I'm coming to accept THIS as a weight I can maintain with about 1600-1700 calories. I am not happy eating less, and I'm not happy exercising more, so this is the compromise, looks like. :D But I have to work it, every day I have to fight my sloth, though the binge issues seem well in remission (2 years almos).

Moslty, I eat real food, not huge portions, watch hyperpalatable stuff, watch too much starch (it really does pack it on me post menopause, why is that?) I was insulin resistant, but seem to be doing much better.

If Carnie just learned to eat real good food and not crap, accepted that she'd have to do exercise pretty nearly every day, and stopped expecting magic surgical solutions (what is next after the sleeve, a duodenal switch?) that alone would help oodles. Carnie, move away from the hyperpalatable and trigger foods....

I like her when she's "on". She's peppy and fun. She has a really cute and likable side. I just think she needs to accept that some of us are not wired to burn calories like a mother, and we pack on fat,and we have depressive or mental health issues where food comforts us. We have to find comfort, "highs", amusement in non-self-destructive stuff, cause the addictive GBP folks who transfer addictions/compulsions/obssessions end up alcoholic, bankrupt, promiscuous, or in an alarming number of cases, as suicides. I transferred mine for a spell to shopping, untl my credit card wanted to explode. Now, I overread and overwatch anime and over-web-surf, which so far are less damaging than the usual alternatives.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

LOL ... It does just seem to come around to his crap too many times to ignore though. Many have tried to get him to realize that at this point he needs to at least look at his diet as contributing/causing his problems. After all, if he was sooooo broken, how did he lose weight on LC in the first place? NOBODY seems to ponder that. So he "fixed" himself but is still blaming years on the UBCSAD (UBC=unbelievable chronic binging) for the damage. Herrrroooooooo!!!! He would never give you a straight answer Woodey. Here's how it would go: THANKS Woodey for your input! I am working this through with a highly respected LC physician. I'm never giving up!

Princess Dieter said...

I feel fine at 179/180. I look good enough to get wolf whistles and some "Hey, Mamas" when I walk, and noticeable male approval here and there when I'm out, which I can guarantee I did NOT get when I was out and about at 300, 250, 200...seems like there was this line that got crosssed and I was considered attractive again for an old dame.

Carnie could probably be happy at 180 if the LA skinny-mania isn't irrevocably entrenched. This is the gal who had to sing next to Chynna Phillips and hang with those size 0 and 2 celebrities. She may have a different threshold than regular gals. In general, what I see is that folks who were never obese find this weight horrifying on a scale. But those of us who were huge, hey, this is small in comparison,so we can be content at an "overweight" or mildly obese weight/BMI. It's relative... My never obese SIL would plotz if she stepped on a scale and got 170 pounds and start radically dieting. I'd be happy as a clam and go put a gold star on my forehead. :D

Princess Dieter said...

No, that would be HUNGER GAMES. ; )

bentleyj74 said...

Yeah, let's go with that one. Eye candy from start to finish. I somehow failed to mention my pit stop in cougar town to my teenagers. Meow.

Princess Dieter said...

While I do avoid gluten, I'd think the problem was her pantry was full of candy, sugar, baked junk, processed crap. Just saying...

I saw that episode when it first aired. And I thought the fitness trainer looked...unhealthy. Like..kinda mushy around the muscle. Not how I'm used to seeing trainers for celebrities--buff and "cut" lean..like precise architecture, ya know.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

seems like there was this line that got crosssed and I was considered attractive again for an old dame.

Oh can I relate! There's something that happens to my bod at whatever weight gets me from 14 to 12 that flips like a switch. It might be partly how I represent, but it can't possibly be entirely that.

I do know this, if I ever find myself single and gaining weight a bit, I plan to move to the Carribean/Mexico. I'll do just fine there likely up to about a 16 ;-) I seem to be much more appreciated by men of a certain ethnic persuasion ;-)

Carnie would do well to move to Cleveland :p Seriously, she's very pretty, doesn't put weight on in her face and would do better in a more normal environment where she's not continuously being compared, or more importantly comparing herself, to the low end of a bell curve.

Princess Dieter said...

She really should move. LA is toxic for chubbies, and she's a natural chubber. With a super pretty face. With personality. She's just never gonna be her sister or Chynna, and that has to hurt like hell. Maybe she can move to someplace in California (close enough to drive or fly down for studio sessions) where there is less of the skinny obssession?

I think the reason is probably rooted in the waist-hip-ratios thing. After a certain point, I lost enough visceral/middle fat to regain my waist-10-inches-less than bust-and-hips curve. Hubby noticed it..and likes it a lot. More like the girl he married....an hourglass. Not a round ball of blubber.

Woodey said...

LOL! Never give up, never surrender!

Woodey said...

I have the same issue body wise. I'm an endomorph and will never be that slender model body. Even when I was doing serious weightlifting and weighed a lot less I looked like a brick. Now I look like a barrel. I carry the weight well, but it would be nice to be down to only one chin. I thought about the band, but decided I would rather struggle with will power and try to lose weight naturally then get surgery.

For me the hardest part is getting my expectations to be on par with reality. I want to lose weight as fast as possible and set unrealistic expectations. I'm more than likely going to die with excess weight on my body, but I know I can knock a good part of it off. I think there is a difference between settling and being real with ones self, I'm trying to get there. One thing is for sure, no more strict or weird diets!

river rance said...

Jimmy Moore will eventually have some form of GBS.

Muata said...

I can't say that I'm surprised she had a second go at WLS. Like most I considered having WLS too until I saw Al Roker's special on his procedure. I still view it as putting a bandaid on a bullet wound because it does nothing for the psycholigical issues most, if not all, who have this surgery are dealing with.

I have one coworker who had gastric bypass and was the talk of the campus for a good two years. His self-confidence was through the roof. I remember him telling me that it was the only cure for type II diabetes. Now its about 6 or 7 years later and he has gained all of the weight back. I asked him the other week would he still recommend the procedure to people, and he said yes. Then, he mumbled something about maybe he could have used will power like me before walking off without a chance for me to respond. Will power? Yeah I wish it were that simple .... Oh, he was also one who prided himself in not exercising one bit while he lost over 100 pounds.

Woodey said...

TBH if I put myself through all of that and gained the weight back I would contemplate a bullet in my head. To me surgery is a sign of desperation, a last chance if you will. If that failed then I would be devastated. Personally I don't see surgery as even an option, it would take an act of some invisible being to push me that far. So if I were to get it done and then failed, oh man terrifying. Carnie is going to put herself through it twice....wtf!? If it fails second time around are we going to read about her getting dredged out of a river?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

You know, being obese was always depressing for me, as I believe it is to some degree for most. But worse than that was the times in my life where I was able to lose enormous amounts of weight back to a "normal" size only to gain it all back (or get even bigger still). I had lost a lot of weight around 2002-2004 and was wearing size 12's at that time. This was when I had some skiddly feeling/racing heart issues that I'm pretty sure in retrospect were hypoglycemia and eating carbs made it go away. So I drifted off the low carb which, history repeated itself, I ballooned back up and then some with amazing speed. I spent a year or two in self reflection scared to even try to lose the weight again. What was the point if I was only going to regain it? I would rather have tried to find a way to be a happy obese person than go through the cycle again. During this time I contemplated Lapband because at least that's reversible. Carnie had put back on some weight at that time and she was one of several public examples of significant regain. I quickly dismissed surgery as an option, because I couldn't think of anything more depressing than losing and regaining a shitload of weight other than having paid thousands of dollars and risking my health to do it in vain. I have not watched her new reality show where they show her going in for the surgery in the commercial. I imagine she's in quite a desperate state at this point. It's too bad her family couldn't get her to seek other help.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

There's also this idea that WLS is the "easy way out" but I've read so many stories of problems, adjusting, etc. that surely it's not. Wish Carnie had perhaps hooked up with some orgnization like NAWLS.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Miss Cleo concurs.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

She talked about some of this WRT upbringing on Unstapled (or it may have been an interview I saw). If you know some of the underlying issues, WHY would you think surgery is the solution? This is what I don't get the more and more I think about this. She's convinced herself that she's doing it for her health based on, IMO, a bit of unnecessary alarmism vis a vis diabetes. I just read a statistic in a review paper that only 30% of those with impaired glucose tolerance progress to diabetes. Looking for the stat based on fasting BG. I mean if Rosedale has taught me anything it is that one of his studies correlates lowest all cause mortality with a FBG that borders on a prediabetes diagnosis. So I think there's some denial going on there.

I also have to wonder, she managed to eat around the GBP, so I just don't see what makes her think she won't manage to eventually eat around the banding. Also, some of her weight gains were legitimately related to her pregnancies. I think she took off most of baby #1's weight before getting preggers with #2 but had more problems shedding off #2's weight. Mostly I think this is because she didn't try to lose it slowly but went on Celebrity Fit Club instead.

Jeez ... I just looked to make sure that was after the 2nd kid and found this: http://www.celebitchy.com/category/carnie_wilson/
Too much drama for this mama if you ask me. I suppose it must be difficult trying to maintain a lifestyle you've become accustomed to so you have to do celebrity endorsements for weight loss companies, go on shows like Celebrity Fit Club, and now not one (Unstapled), not two (Celebrity Wife Swap -- never heard of that one! Ironic her episode was with Tracey Gold) but three reality shows. Or I guess CFC can be considered a reality show so we're up to four. Tying one's income source to their weight loss isn't such a great idea for many (ahem). Clearly this is adding to Carnie's problems. Too bad the other two of Wilson Philips don't see that and they did this latest show.

Muata said...

Going from a size 48 to a size 38 to only gain it all back to wearing @ a size 50 was the most depressing and emotionally crushing experience. Gaining back the 10 or 20 pounds I had lost doing some fad diet like the lemon/maple/cayenne cleanse or cabbage soup diet wasn' t fun but it didnt make me question my self-worth like going up and down my wardrobe in major jumps did. That's why wenever I see a coworker who at one time lost a lot of weight only to regain it and then some I feel for them because I know that feeling of shame all too well.

Speaking of Carnie, i had totally forgot that she posed for Playboy back in the day! Talking about a serious mind f$%k for her. Sexy model one year to being berated by Dr. Oz publicly to getting lapband ... I just hope she is at least seeing a therapist.

bentleyj74 said...

@Woodey

I've recommended the Adonis Index program to a few men irl and they all had good results. The reason I favor it over other programs [even programs that are similar with regard to weight lifting] is that they also address the psycho/social/lifestyle management issues using a lot of the same tools that I had to pay top dollar for access to all those years ago and I have been a maintainer with zero relapses. I really think you'd like it, worth a look anyway. :)

bentleyj74 said...

"I think the reason is probably rooted in the waist-hip-ratios thing. After a certain point, I lost enough visceral/middle fat to regain my waist-10-inches-less than bust-and-hips curve. Hubby noticed it..and likes it a lot. More like the girl he married....an hourglass."

Yep, that's completely plausible imo.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

In some cases this is probably true. But up until I tried LC, I was always hourglass thin to fat. I am much less hourglass now than I was even at this clothing size years ago. (When I moved I donated a ton of old clothing because I just knew it wouldn't matter if I ever got to that size again, the clothes wouldn't fit properly). I think in my case it may have to do with how I walk and how much stuff moves and the way it moves. I guess kinda how from the back you can almost always pick out a woman who is a certain degree of preggers.

Woodey said...

I know a big part of my depression stemming from obesity is because of social criticism. Our culture is shallow and built around being beautiful, anything that strays from that is shunned. Case in point, I had been feeling anxious about attending college this Fall and having to be in class around young adults, particularly males (they are the ones that subject me to most of the jeering I receive in public). Then it dawned on me that the program I am majoring in is 95% female, they will either ignore me or be kind to my face. The amount of relief it gave me was incredible. It also doesn't help that I now live in a rural city and am surrounded by the "God,guns,and cousin-banging" mentality. I have found that people who are not exposed to culture and diversity are the least desirable people to be around.

I can only imagine the nightmare that Carnie has to go through being subjected to the media on such an enormous scale. Obviously it doesn't help to be in a band with people that are very attractive and your considered the ugly duckling. Compounding that by putting herself in the media eye by documenting her weight struggles. I'm really surprised that she doesn't realize that the world is unforgiving and the amount of sympathy she will get pales compared to the criticism. Its seems weird that these ego driven stars don't appear to have any shame and are more than willing to show the world everything. Some things just aren't other people's business, but to each his/her own I guess.

Woodey said...

@bentley74 Thanks for the recommendation, I have never heard of Adonis Index before. TBH I am not too excited about wanting to be a part of another program because I just got done with a year of LC/Paleo mania and need to unwind. However, I am interested in anything that can give me a leg up and teach me something new. So I will look into it and see what its all about and what people have to say.

AgingHippie said...

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/04/liposuction-shifts-fat-from.html

Liposuction Shifts Fat from Subcutaneous to Visceral Fat Depots and Reduces Energy Expenditure by 5%!

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/04/25/jc.2012-1012

Liposuction Induces a Compensatory Increase of Visceral Fat Which Is Effectively Counteracted by Physical Activity: A Randomized Trial

Conclusion: Abdominal liposuction does not induce regrowth of fat, but it does trigger a compensatory increase of visceral fat, which is effectively counteracted by physical activity.

SO - exercise is important

bentleyj74 said...

The only part of the program that actually is a "program" is the specific weight training routine which I do like and think is worth the relatively small price. The rest is about management and goal setting and social identity and stuff like that. How to figure out what exactly you want and then how to not get sidetracked or overwhelmed. There is no dietary persuasion or points system or lists of allowable foods and "bad" foods.

It is designed for people to include fitness in their LIVES not revolve their lives around their fitness/diet or not have lives at all. Short of some sort of live in program or years of counseling and private training I think this is the best bang for the buck available.

ChubbaCheeksPhotography said...

While I appreciate and respect your opinion. I find it really troubling that you don't respect others. Why do you need to trash other ways of eating? Low carbers? Name calling etc? Why are you so hateful if you are so right. I think you should mind your own business.

Woodey said...

Hate is a wonderful thing. For without it you cannot truly experience love!

Carbsane attacks the bad science and the hypocrisy. She told me not to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it came to LC. I had told her that LC had done some good things for me, but that I could not continue on like I had. She cared enough to help me try and think clearly and make a well thought out decision. She cares about people and the information that they are receiving enough to stand up and say, "cut the crap, lets look at this before we jump in and claim it as fact". Face it there is a ton of crap out there.

Sanjeev said...

truthfully writing

"it didn't work for them but they're still peddling it"

simply can't qualify as "full of hate".

> trash other ways of eating? Low carbers?

Very few do this here. Evelyn and Most of the commenters take this stance:

"low carb has its place and is appropriate in some circumstances. Its place is not what the most extremely dogmatic proponents claim. High and moderate carb also have their place, and that place is not what the most extremely dogmatic low carbers claim."

> Why are you so hateful if you are so right
false dichotomy

> I think you should mind your own business.

and

> I appreciate and respect your opinion

incoherent ... colour me surprised

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Welcome CCP, and thank you both Woodey and Sanjeev. I find it amusing to get repeatedly tagged a hater. There are a few people that I don't like based on how they've treated me, but that has nothing to do with how they eat, etc. This comment seems a bit out of place CCP, or were you just looking for a place to vent?

Woodey said...

Maybe its retaliation from Jimmy's boo hoo post?

ItsTheWooo said...

It is a myth that GBP patients are "addicted to food" and this is why they have high rates of gambling and drug problems after surgery.

Central dopamine sensitivity is very important to glucose tolerance obesity and thrifty metabolic/hibernation/seasonal obese states. All people with obesity have low dopamine sensitivity in the brain and this is instrumental in the pathogenesis of obesity and glucose intolerance.

When obese people are STARVED (which is what GBP is) their dopamine receptors upregulate like crazy and they are now very very vulnerable to dopamine mediated problems like gambling and addictions.

The same phenomenon is observed in people with anorexia or in rodents who are food restricted by scientists. Normal rats who are fed are like "Eh" with cocaine but if you semi starve a rat it suddenly is hyperresponsive to anything dopaminergic and is obsessed with hitting the lever for the dopamine drug.


This is probably also the pathogenesis for binge eating "disorder". Fat people who go on diets and starve themselves alter their dopamine sensitivity creating a state of hyperresponsiveness to dopaminergics (e.g. food) and so they no longer can normally modulate their behavior with food or anything else that stimulates dopamine for that matter.

Restricting nutrient availability in rodents can cause these changes (binge eating and compulsive disorders) without altering even body weight.

The sooner we all get on board the reality train the better. Obesity is not a mental health problem although mental health problems may be symptoms of the nervous system/endocrine dysfunction.

BiggerFatterPolitics said...

Gastric Bypass Is Butchering A Healthy Digestive System

Gluttony is the American Way



Fatlings circumvent WLS for two reasons. First off, fat people are gluttons and secondly they are unable to eat carbs and fiber so they eat more fat. Fat as 9 calories per gram and carbs are 4 calories per gram. Fat fattens best!


WLS surgery victims also have a tough time digesting protein so they turn to fat and alcohol. Alcohol soothes the carb "cravings" WLS victims develop ketogenic psychosis which is irreversible.

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