Carnie Wilson: Undergoing second WLS
With all the recent discussion on losing weight, exercise, bariatric surgery etc. here at the Asylum, I was reminded of this short post I intended to make on Carnie Wilson. I had seen her on Fox & Friends with Wilson Philips promoting their new album. Her's is a cautionary tale but also goes to show there's more to this obesity thing than many folks seem to want to acknowledge or talk about.
For those not familiar with her story, this article offers some details and is the source of the image at right. Not only did she have gastric bypass surgery, but she had considerable cosmetic procedures afterwards to remove loose skin. In a way, Carnie "had it all" a decade or so ago. I'd read how she struggled with regain appearing on Celebrity Fit Club reality show 5 years later. Hadn't seen much from her until she popped up on Game Show Network hosting The Newlywed Game in 2009. Then came her reality show on GSN called "Unstapled" (though there was no indication she'd had surgery reversed). I blogged on this a while back. In a nutshell, she attempted to lose weight during that show engaging the services of a trainer and even Dr. Oz. In the end, she didn't make much headway.
I feel for this woman, as I do Kirstie and Oprah and countless others who've lived their weight struggles out in public. Watching a few episodes of Unstapled it became apparent that Carnie's problems are largely in her head. NOT "psychological problems" but in her mindset that she's developed going through all of this. I also remember her having eggs in several baskets with two shows on GSN, some bakery business she was trying to do and something with QVC that I can't remember (clothes?). Not sure how much was "reality" but financial troubles were discussed. Then she's got the usual life stuff of a husband and two small children. Still, and I'll probably get some flack for saying this, Carnie repeatedly came off as making excuses for herself. In a way it's almost as if she piled so much else on her plate to avoid focusing on her ballooning weight. While I thought Oz was a little rough on her, it was a "reality check" Carnie seemed to tune out. Getting unceremoniously fired from GSN no doubt took its toll. She definitely fell off the food wagon in the interim.
So with the launch of a new album and yet another reality show -- this time on TV Guide channel with Wilson Philips -- we learn that she is going to undergo a second WLS. This saddens me but doesn't surprise me. She had already undergone the surgery before the tour was launched -- a gastric sleeve. You see, GBP works in part by giving you such a small stomach that you'll literally get sick if you overeat, etc. It forces dietary change on you, though the restriction is easier than it would be without the surgery. It changes your body, but not your mind or mindset. I know a few people who've undergone GBP in real life or online sufficiently well to verify current status. Sadly, too many regain a lot of the weight. They learn to "eat around" the surgery ... and once you learn to do that, the magic of GBP for weight loss seems to evaporate into thin air. This is yet another reason why I'm not convinced that blood glucose levels have much if anything to do with weight gain or loss. I'd like to see the 10 year follow-up statistics -- which is a milestone Carnie has passed.
But judging from her "already 30 lbs lost" appearance on F&F, it's clear that Carnie lost control over more than her weight and ate around her surgery even more. But I'm not keen on her given reason for undergoing another WLS:
The singer went on "Today" Tuesday to announce that her choice had nothing to do with aesthetics, and everything to do with her discovery that she was a borderline diabetic last year.
Uggh. This is the whole prediabetes scaremongering. I saw the episode when she went on Oz. Her glucose was not even fasting and ... ooooohhh ... was 100 with normal blood pressure. Is it really necessary to scare the overweight into submission to believe we must all be "ideal" weight?? So now she gets a gastric sleeve and she'll likely get down into the 170's ... that's my prediction. And unless she deals with the other reasons for her weight ballooning under stress, she'll be back up again at some point, though I hope for her sake that prediction is wrong. Of course I can just hear the muttering under their breath going on in low carbers over this. If only Carnie would go LC she'd be cured. Sounds like she did for 100 days on Celebrity FitDay.
Carnie Wilson is my poster girl for what is wrong with the greater community seeking to come up with some sort of biochemical/hormonal/toxin/etc. etiology of obesity. If it were carbs and insulin Jimmy would be 200 instead of 300 lbs and low carb diet doctors wouldn't be repeatedly having to rededicate themselves to their own dietary prescriptions. If it were just eating less and moving more, Kirstie would still be doing Jenny commercials and Larry the Cable Guy would be doing the same for Nutrisystem. The list could go on, and this is why I'm always reserved when it comes to weight loss success stories. Not because I'm not rooting for these people, but because those who do maintain over the truly long haul have managed to change behavior through changing their mindsets. Changing a mindset is NOT the same as making a "lifestyle" out of a dietary composition. I don't know if Carnie is trying to fool us with the talk of "it's about health", or trying to fool herself, because her health "scare" is not your usual sort of immediately life threatening "a ha" moments. I wish her well in gaining control over this beast.
Edit in: I almost forgot! Jimmy was a call-in to Dr. Oz with Carnie and it's on YouTube. She discusses carbs and such and trying to find a balance. And I love how in 2010 when Jimmy was in the 280's, he was still touting losing almost 200 lbs and "keep doing what works for you". Gosh this guy needs to take his own advice, with the caveat to stop doing what's no longer working!!
Edit in: I almost forgot! Jimmy was a call-in to Dr. Oz with Carnie and it's on YouTube. She discusses carbs and such and trying to find a balance. And I love how in 2010 when Jimmy was in the 280's, he was still touting losing almost 200 lbs and "keep doing what works for you". Gosh this guy needs to take his own advice, with the caveat to stop doing what's no longer working!!
Comments
You don't have to read very much of what JM writes to be tipped off that he's a near professional sympathy seeker or that he likes to get high with binges. His lists of rules for righteous eating SUPPORT both of those behaviors and keep him enslaved. It doesn't mean there's nothing to be said for good food choices but even those mostly harmless guidelines will be distorted to serve the dysfunctional behavior...it will not have the power to correct it by itself.
I've known someone who has now had two bariatric surgeries [and know exactly what you mean when you say eat around it] who has spent the last few decades still obese because she wanted a magic cure but did NOT want to learn how to live without using food as a drug. The surgery was a tool for avoidance FOR HER and was an expensive waste of time. Are there people who will capitalize on it? Sure, and in those cases it will probably help them out a lot. 99% head game no matter what.
When the things that you WANT to do harm you it's probably going to take more than a list of rules to untangle that knot. Getting your life...either back or for the first time...is like being born and seeing the world with new eyes.
Getting some help and direction in controlling the environment that's controlling you is good advice not an insult imo :)
Professional sympathy seeker. Nail, head!
I read widely for years trying to sort out my own issues keeping me obese, then morbidly obese for decades. Yeah, it's in my head, and I don't just mean my ocd and neuroses. I mean when I stepped back from the hyperpalatable foods after reading THE END OF OVEREATING, it became much, much easier to lose weight and stop binge-ing. I kept telling folks that I thought there was something to that, and to at least TRY it. Eating simpler foods. They don't HAVE to be uber-food-reward-plan bland, just whole and simpler and, preferably, home-cooked for control of things like salt/oil. And for those with prediabetes like I had, carb control can be very good. I was able to get my blood glucose back in the normal range from 123 just by reconfiguring meals, cutting out sugar, and using cinnamon and ALA. With only a 5 lb weigh loss on a 300 lb me. So, food changes can begin to heal, food quality, some supplementation.
But exercise, better food, simpler food, whole food, rest, destressing--you know, all that OLD advice about eating better, working out, and dealing with issues. It's still gonna come back to that.
BTW, that honeymoon for GBP seems to be about 2-3 years. When I notice bloggers going silent or struggling or talkign about regain or getting vexed with weight again after GBP, it seems to be at the 3ish year mark. Of course, the first 1 to 2 years are the magic times. Magic times don't last. Eventually, it comes back to watching food/calories and exercising. Like always.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/04/24/jc.2012-1444
http://bariatric.susanmleach.com/the-biggest-loser-destroys-participants-metabolisms/
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/1/22.long
Long-term changes in energy expenditure and body composition after massive weight loss induced by gastric bypass surgery
Case in point? That picture up above, that's Eric Chopin. He was the winner of the third season of the Biggest Loser. He lost just over 200lbs. A few years later he was on Oprah to talk about his massive regain. Think Eric dropped the ball? Not me. I think the Biggest Loser provided him with a nonsensical and metabolically dangerous approach to weight management, and in the process, stacked his deck entirely against him.
BTW, I weighed 200-210 size 14/16 before I first went low carb. Lost 40 lbs in several months and got down to size 8's. Drifted off. Within 2 years I weighed in at 267 wearing 20W's which was already after starting a weight loss plan. So I guess if we're going to go "there", almost 2 decades of yo-yoing never got me but a few pounds over 210. One stint on Atkins .... Is Atkins metabolically dangerous? Actually, I'd say yes, to some extent!
Running man?
For whatever reason Carnie's body wants to grow, I could speculate but...I dunno. It does make me mad that she is relying on surgery and using it as a crutch, at least that is how it appears.
Of all the people in the public eye that got the surgery and seems to be making the most of it is Al Roker. I've seen him at times where his body has started to grow but he stays on top of it and shrinks it back down. I've never seen him let it get back out of hand though.
I decided against GBP (and I was desperate and strongly researching it and the lap band) because I saw some complications, some regains, and some scar stats on nutritional deficiencies. I also saw the crap a lot of post-GBP folks were subsisting on to keep the weight off ( a lot of bars, protein shakes, processed low carb foods, etc). I was horrified. I refuse to live on stuff like that. I'd rather be fat, frankly.
On real food, I am not lean. I'm 179 lbs, I exercise and am pretty strong for a 52 year old who abused her body for 2 1/2 decades of junk and obesity. But I'm not LEAN, and probably never will be. I'm coming to accept THIS as a weight I can maintain with about 1600-1700 calories. I am not happy eating less, and I'm not happy exercising more, so this is the compromise, looks like. :D But I have to work it, every day I have to fight my sloth, though the binge issues seem well in remission (2 years almos).
Moslty, I eat real food, not huge portions, watch hyperpalatable stuff, watch too much starch (it really does pack it on me post menopause, why is that?) I was insulin resistant, but seem to be doing much better.
If Carnie just learned to eat real good food and not crap, accepted that she'd have to do exercise pretty nearly every day, and stopped expecting magic surgical solutions (what is next after the sleeve, a duodenal switch?) that alone would help oodles. Carnie, move away from the hyperpalatable and trigger foods....
I like her when she's "on". She's peppy and fun. She has a really cute and likable side. I just think she needs to accept that some of us are not wired to burn calories like a mother, and we pack on fat,and we have depressive or mental health issues where food comforts us. We have to find comfort, "highs", amusement in non-self-destructive stuff, cause the addictive GBP folks who transfer addictions/compulsions/obssessions end up alcoholic, bankrupt, promiscuous, or in an alarming number of cases, as suicides. I transferred mine for a spell to shopping, untl my credit card wanted to explode. Now, I overread and overwatch anime and over-web-surf, which so far are less damaging than the usual alternatives.
Carnie could probably be happy at 180 if the LA skinny-mania isn't irrevocably entrenched. This is the gal who had to sing next to Chynna Phillips and hang with those size 0 and 2 celebrities. She may have a different threshold than regular gals. In general, what I see is that folks who were never obese find this weight horrifying on a scale. But those of us who were huge, hey, this is small in comparison,so we can be content at an "overweight" or mildly obese weight/BMI. It's relative... My never obese SIL would plotz if she stepped on a scale and got 170 pounds and start radically dieting. I'd be happy as a clam and go put a gold star on my forehead. :D
I saw that episode when it first aired. And I thought the fitness trainer looked...unhealthy. Like..kinda mushy around the muscle. Not how I'm used to seeing trainers for celebrities--buff and "cut" lean..like precise architecture, ya know.
Oh can I relate! There's something that happens to my bod at whatever weight gets me from 14 to 12 that flips like a switch. It might be partly how I represent, but it can't possibly be entirely that.
I do know this, if I ever find myself single and gaining weight a bit, I plan to move to the Carribean/Mexico. I'll do just fine there likely up to about a 16 ;-) I seem to be much more appreciated by men of a certain ethnic persuasion ;-)
Carnie would do well to move to Cleveland :p Seriously, she's very pretty, doesn't put weight on in her face and would do better in a more normal environment where she's not continuously being compared, or more importantly comparing herself, to the low end of a bell curve.
I think the reason is probably rooted in the waist-hip-ratios thing. After a certain point, I lost enough visceral/middle fat to regain my waist-10-inches-less than bust-and-hips curve. Hubby noticed it..and likes it a lot. More like the girl he married....an hourglass. Not a round ball of blubber.
For me the hardest part is getting my expectations to be on par with reality. I want to lose weight as fast as possible and set unrealistic expectations. I'm more than likely going to die with excess weight on my body, but I know I can knock a good part of it off. I think there is a difference between settling and being real with ones self, I'm trying to get there. One thing is for sure, no more strict or weird diets!
I have one coworker who had gastric bypass and was the talk of the campus for a good two years. His self-confidence was through the roof. I remember him telling me that it was the only cure for type II diabetes. Now its about 6 or 7 years later and he has gained all of the weight back. I asked him the other week would he still recommend the procedure to people, and he said yes. Then, he mumbled something about maybe he could have used will power like me before walking off without a chance for me to respond. Will power? Yeah I wish it were that simple .... Oh, he was also one who prided himself in not exercising one bit while he lost over 100 pounds.
I also have to wonder, she managed to eat around the GBP, so I just don't see what makes her think she won't manage to eventually eat around the banding. Also, some of her weight gains were legitimately related to her pregnancies. I think she took off most of baby #1's weight before getting preggers with #2 but had more problems shedding off #2's weight. Mostly I think this is because she didn't try to lose it slowly but went on Celebrity Fit Club instead.
Jeez ... I just looked to make sure that was after the 2nd kid and found this: http://www.celebitchy.com/category/carnie_wilson/
Too much drama for this mama if you ask me. I suppose it must be difficult trying to maintain a lifestyle you've become accustomed to so you have to do celebrity endorsements for weight loss companies, go on shows like Celebrity Fit Club, and now not one (Unstapled), not two (Celebrity Wife Swap -- never heard of that one! Ironic her episode was with Tracey Gold) but three reality shows. Or I guess CFC can be considered a reality show so we're up to four. Tying one's income source to their weight loss isn't such a great idea for many (ahem). Clearly this is adding to Carnie's problems. Too bad the other two of Wilson Philips don't see that and they did this latest show.
Speaking of Carnie, i had totally forgot that she posed for Playboy back in the day! Talking about a serious mind f$%k for her. Sexy model one year to being berated by Dr. Oz publicly to getting lapband ... I just hope she is at least seeing a therapist.
I've recommended the Adonis Index program to a few men irl and they all had good results. The reason I favor it over other programs [even programs that are similar with regard to weight lifting] is that they also address the psycho/social/lifestyle management issues using a lot of the same tools that I had to pay top dollar for access to all those years ago and I have been a maintainer with zero relapses. I really think you'd like it, worth a look anyway. :)
Yep, that's completely plausible imo.
I can only imagine the nightmare that Carnie has to go through being subjected to the media on such an enormous scale. Obviously it doesn't help to be in a band with people that are very attractive and your considered the ugly duckling. Compounding that by putting herself in the media eye by documenting her weight struggles. I'm really surprised that she doesn't realize that the world is unforgiving and the amount of sympathy she will get pales compared to the criticism. Its seems weird that these ego driven stars don't appear to have any shame and are more than willing to show the world everything. Some things just aren't other people's business, but to each his/her own I guess.
Liposuction Shifts Fat from Subcutaneous to Visceral Fat Depots and Reduces Energy Expenditure by 5%!
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/04/25/jc.2012-1012
Liposuction Induces a Compensatory Increase of Visceral Fat Which Is Effectively Counteracted by Physical Activity: A Randomized Trial
Conclusion: Abdominal liposuction does not induce regrowth of fat, but it does trigger a compensatory increase of visceral fat, which is effectively counteracted by physical activity.
SO - exercise is important
It is designed for people to include fitness in their LIVES not revolve their lives around their fitness/diet or not have lives at all. Short of some sort of live in program or years of counseling and private training I think this is the best bang for the buck available.
Carbsane attacks the bad science and the hypocrisy. She told me not to throw out the baby with the bathwater when it came to LC. I had told her that LC had done some good things for me, but that I could not continue on like I had. She cared enough to help me try and think clearly and make a well thought out decision. She cares about people and the information that they are receiving enough to stand up and say, "cut the crap, lets look at this before we jump in and claim it as fact". Face it there is a ton of crap out there.
"it didn't work for them but they're still peddling it"
simply can't qualify as "full of hate".
> trash other ways of eating? Low carbers?
Very few do this here. Evelyn and Most of the commenters take this stance:
"low carb has its place and is appropriate in some circumstances. Its place is not what the most extremely dogmatic proponents claim. High and moderate carb also have their place, and that place is not what the most extremely dogmatic low carbers claim."
> Why are you so hateful if you are so right
false dichotomy
> I think you should mind your own business.
and
> I appreciate and respect your opinion
incoherent ... colour me surprised
Central dopamine sensitivity is very important to glucose tolerance obesity and thrifty metabolic/hibernation/seasonal obese states. All people with obesity have low dopamine sensitivity in the brain and this is instrumental in the pathogenesis of obesity and glucose intolerance.
When obese people are STARVED (which is what GBP is) their dopamine receptors upregulate like crazy and they are now very very vulnerable to dopamine mediated problems like gambling and addictions.
The same phenomenon is observed in people with anorexia or in rodents who are food restricted by scientists. Normal rats who are fed are like "Eh" with cocaine but if you semi starve a rat it suddenly is hyperresponsive to anything dopaminergic and is obsessed with hitting the lever for the dopamine drug.
This is probably also the pathogenesis for binge eating "disorder". Fat people who go on diets and starve themselves alter their dopamine sensitivity creating a state of hyperresponsiveness to dopaminergics (e.g. food) and so they no longer can normally modulate their behavior with food or anything else that stimulates dopamine for that matter.
Restricting nutrient availability in rodents can cause these changes (binge eating and compulsive disorders) without altering even body weight.
The sooner we all get on board the reality train the better. Obesity is not a mental health problem although mental health problems may be symptoms of the nervous system/endocrine dysfunction.
Gluttony is the American Way
Fatlings circumvent WLS for two reasons. First off, fat people are gluttons and secondly they are unable to eat carbs and fiber so they eat more fat. Fat as 9 calories per gram and carbs are 4 calories per gram. Fat fattens best!
WLS surgery victims also have a tough time digesting protein so they turn to fat and alcohol. Alcohol soothes the carb "cravings" WLS victims develop ketogenic psychosis which is irreversible.
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