JimKKKins: The Saga of Jimmy Moore and David Duke

Random Replay:

I had just recently updated this post to put the summary and links but didn't think it was necessary to bump.  As far as I was concerned, this whole sad saga was in the past, and the members of the paleo and low carb communities spoke with their actions, for better or worse.  Newbies will find it pinned on the sidebar as the most popular post here ... not exactly sure what that means in the end.  I still can't for the life of me figure out why people continue to promote this guy, but to each their own.    Just they can't say they didn't know ... and Jimmy can't claim to be wrongfully accused ... and I still think the Paleo community could learn a thing or two from the Paula Deen story ... 

But then this past week,  Jimmy Moore is at it again bringing up this issue.  Why I have no idea, because one would think he would rather this faded away into the archives.  But in a really strange turn of events, Joe Salama of The Paleo Movement interviewed Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse:  Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse discuss controversy within the Paleo community.  

This is quite odd in and of itself (as I noted in the comments there that Joe graciously published) although they were not interviewed together.  But last I checked there weren't many who even acknowledge Kruse was ever in the paleo community let alone still a part of it.  But put him with Jimmy after the LC Cruise 2012 debacle?  Seriously?  If anyone doesn't know by now, Jack was denied passage on the cruise because someone named "Lance" emailed or called Carnival to alert them of a suspicious spoof tweet about a bioterrorism attack.  Kruse went on television and threatened me with the FBI when it is obvious in retrospect that his version of events was a culmination of many lies.  You can read that whole sorted saga beginning here and chronologically newer posts.  It also ties us to the other controversy with Robb Wolf, who lied repeatedly about me and our relationship such as it was.  This post may be worth a read.

But beyond putting Jack and Jimmy together again, the interview elicited this bizarre response from Jimmy in response to the question "What role does controversy have in the Paleo Movement?" ...

Controversy is the cancer that can tear apart any emerging movement faster than anything else. Most of the “controversy” that I’ve seen in the paleo community in the past few years is just plain petty. We’ve got a world chock full of people who are being given horrific dietary and lifestyle advice from the mainstream authorities on health and we’re debating things like whether Jimmy Moore is a neo-Nazi because he did an interview about his story on a radio show by a guy he’d never even heard of before…? Come on people, we’re better than this. I get that some people hate me for whatever their reasons, but they are the great minority.

Jimmy has now kicked it up a notch to having never heard of David Duke?  Sorry, that dog won't hunt or whatever cliche you want to use.  Nobody hates you.  Nobody has mentioned this in a while, so you bring it up again now to divert attention from your continual lying.  I do not use that term lightly.  It simply is.  He has lied repeatedly over the past year or so ... about how his weight just crept back on 15 lbs or so a year.  How he hadn't weighed under 250 lbs for 5 years when he had weighed less than that, however briefly as recently as Spring 2011.  And most recently when he repeatedly told McDougall that he was at his lowest weight in his adult life (when he has weighed as little as 215 for around a month or so at least twice since Atkins).  About his cholesterol levels in his book even!

So since he mentioned the David Duke stuff, yeah, in light of his continued lies about his health and weight (why I don't know, since it is all a matter of public record on his blog) ... I think this was worth a bump.

And for the record, JimKKKins is a perfectly apt play on words type nickname incorporating both the Kimkins and David Duke references.  Nobody is too busy to do a Google search before going on someone's radio program.  Nobody.  And nobody is too busy not to read the About page on a website they are linking to from their blog.  Or they shouldn't be linking.  In a pinch his wife Christine could have done that legwork for him.  NO EXCUSES.

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Summary: (August 2013)

I want to keep this post pinned as it contains the most information.  At this point it reads in quite disjointed fashion.  So I'm summing this up and feel free to wade through the rest.  Please forgive that there is some repetition of images and content.

On Dec. 7, 2012, Jimmy Moore knowingly appeared as a guest on the David Duke radio program.  He announced this on Facebook 

 

There is absolutely no doubt that Jimmy Moore knew who David Duke is/was ... the "infamous" former KKK Grand Wizard.  There is no other "infamous" David Duke.  On Dec. 22, 2012, Jimmy Moore included a link to David Duke's blog in his "36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012".  He was challenged in his comments section about this: (saved from feed)

by Rian Yyrkah

image from Paleodrama

You’re a fan of David Duke?

by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.

by Diana Moon

David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog

He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.

Then the web community caught wind, and Jimmy Moore rushed to delete the incriminating evidence.  By Dec. 29th, Jimmy fired back with a post entitled "If I’m A Neo-Nazi, Then I Guess Dr. William Davis And Dr. Doug McGuff Are Too?" referring to early 2012 appearances by the aforementioned docs on Duke's radio program.    The fact that he had exchanged emails and visited Duke's site and reviewed some of the material there make his situation different than these other two.  I have written separately about this in The REAL JimKKKins Scandal: Dr. William Davis, Dr. Doug McGuff and "Dr." David Duke , The JimKKKins Trio: What did they know, When did they know it, and Does it Matter? , and William "Wheat Belly" Davis agreed to interview with David Duke personally.   I leave it to anyone reading any of this to draw their own conclusions and conduct their business and personal affairs as they see fit.  Just don't claim that you were uninformed, because the information is out there.    Some of this was summarized by someone who was intimately involved in outing Jimmy's prior connections to a scandalous character named Heidi Diaz, aka Kimmer of the Kimkins diet and website.  You might be interested in reading When You Lie in Plain Sight.

In his point-the-finger at others non-apology, Jimmy claimed to not even know what a neo-Nazi was, and yet he accused those of us who were bringing the information to the public of engaging in "Gestapo tactics (ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s) ".  When realizing this conflicted with his Sargent Shultz impersonation Jimmy quickly scrubbed that from his website as well.

This is Jimmy's modus operandi.  Censor, delete, lie and blame others.  He did it in 2007 with the Kimkins debacle and he repeated it five years later with the David Duke fiasco.    I shared some dust-settled-a-bit thoughts in:  More thoughts on the KKKonfederacy of Dunces

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Last updated 12/31/12

QUICK UPDATE:  If I've missed anything (Twitter, FB, blogs, etc.), feel free to post in comments here or email me:  carbsane at gmail dot com.  Remember if it's on the web, save it!  Screenshots are a wonderful thing, I like to get the URL in the frame.  

Update Log:  I plan to add to this post to keep as many things in one place as I can.  I also apologize in advance for not getting to as many comments as I'd like.  I'll put a little log up here and a character string you can search on to skip to the new content.   Original publish date/time 12/29/12  6:44am EST

• Added 12/31  Changing Apologies (search on that)
• Audio Part 1 added ~9pm 12/31  (search on Audio)

******************************

I am planning to do an audio about this, because I don't think this translates with full impact in the written form.  However I'm throwing together a post to put a bunch of things in the same place as concerns Jimmy Moore and his defense and cover-up concerning his appearance on the radio show of one notorious white supremacist, David Duke.  I will not call him Doctor.

I realize that David Duke is a bit of a has-been in US politics, but he's far from an unknown character.  I'd absolve the younger crowd and international readers from recognizing that one straight away, but there are enough American readers/listeners/participants at Jimmy's various outlets to recognize a true hater when they see the name.  At right is a screenshot of a quick Google search, and here's his Wiki page.  {I'm putting all images in "small", you can click on them to view full size}

All one really needs to know about Duke is that he is a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.   Jimmy Moore refers to him as Dr. David Duke, which in nutritional circles might lead his readers/listeners to believe he's an MD or PhD in a related field.  You can read about Duke's PhD here, with the thesis title: Zionism as a Form of Ethnic Supremacism.  Once rebuffed by the electorate, Duke has spent more recent years spreading the "good word" about the global Jewish conspiracy involving the media, Hollywood, and, well, pretty much anyone and anything not white.  

David Duke has apparently listened to a podcast or two of the LLVLC show.  Not enough to know the truth about his invited guest, but enough to realize that the show had a following and it would be good for his show to get a bunch of hits from Jimmy's vast listenership.  So he invited Jimmy on.  I don't know if by email or phone, matters not.  Jimmy Moore turned 41 the other day.  That's old enough to have heard of David Duke, especially living in the South as he does.  He knew damn well the background and beliefs of the host of the show he went on.  

On Dec. 7 (Pearl Harbor day, ironically) , Jimmy was the guest of David Duke.  He announced this on his discussion forum (dead link) and on Facebook.  I've uploaded a PDF printout of the now-deleted discussion.  What is most troubling to me, however is that neither of these announcements generated much if any response at the time.  As of this post, the FB post remains, though the conversation on the discussion forum has been expunged.  Just in case,  the screenshots are below.

I've C&P's this part of the FB exchange full-size because this will be important later.

• Wally Courie likes this.
• 

  Burton Brown is this the "infamous" David Duke?

  Like · Reply · December 7 at 2:20pm
• 

  Jimmy Moore Yep

  Like · Reply · December 7 at 2:33pm via mobile

So Jimmy offers a flippant "Yep" ... no big deal ... and it would be five days before another response.  This is Jimmy Moore's FB which tells me one of two things.  Either a lot of people don't bother following him on FB despite the numbers, or his circle there is so blinded by ketones to even register all that's wrong here!  Even now, I'm with last commenter Joe there.  Here we were just over 2 weeks since the appearance before anyone really caught on to this when Jimmy Moore linked to David Duke's website in his 36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012.  Don't bother going to the link now, he's removed it.    Here's the PDF Printout.  Yes, he's stealthily, replaced #14 with a different blog.  Where's Lustig with his phweeeeeet noises for sweeping things away?   Ahh, but it's been saved by far too many people for Jimmy to hide from this.  

I am going to admit that when I first saw the name I didn't think much, other than what an unfortunate name for a paleo or LC peep to have.  Then I thought ... naaah ... surely if there was such a person they would know their name association and name their blog differently.  Nope, it's "the infamous" one alright.  Jimmy then published and responded to two comments inquiring about the link before deleting them.  

by Rian Yyrkah
You’re a fan of David Duke?

image from Paleodrama

by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.

by Diana Moon

David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog

He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.

That last response was the first I'd heard of the radio show appearance ... little did I know it had been a long done deal.   Below are screenshots of Duke's website yesterday.  Oh yeah, there's an article about Vitamin D the LLVLKarb audience might be interested in.  

  

 

It would have been bad enough for Jimmy to link to a nutrition page on this hate-site, but none exists.  So this was the content Jimmy was recommending to his readers.

UPDATE:  Apparently cached links do indeed to to a nutrition page on the hate-site.  My recollection is that when mousing over the David Duke link it was only to his website, no category.  So I stand corrected that Jimmy didn't link to the front page.  Phew.  That takes him off the hook?  Not so fast.  Below are screenshots of what one would have seen yesterday if they followed his link.

 

As you can see, the header and sidebar linking to Duke's hatespew remain intact.  So I see this as a distinction without a difference.  It's not a "clean" nutrition page.  And there's this "nutrition" story (screenshot upper right):  The Great Porn Experiment - One More Devastating Jewish Globalist Influence and How to Overcome It!   Yeah, it's only one, towards the top of the page.  Jimmy didn't see that one, right?   {end UPDATE}

This goes beyond his usual lack of vetting for linked blogs.  Some months he's linked to long defunct blogs, and yours truly once made the list ;-)  .  But one wonders why on earth he would send readers to this website?  So then he resorted to playing dumb on FB and Twitter.

paleodrama image link

What, who me?  And now, he's claiming he had no idea who David Duke was.  Really.  Loathe as I am to link to FTA, link I must, because Nikoley has weighed in to set us "hand wringers" straight:

Jimmy is guilty of one thing: being successful enough in what he does as nearly a one man show—without staff to vet everything, so he never gets pwned—that he's perfectly susceptible to this sort of thing. I myself have given a bunch of written and podcast interviews. I've checked peripherally to see who was requesting, but not very thoroughly. This could have happened to me, had I not already known who that guy is.

It gets better:

Incidentally, I have direct confirmation from Jimmy that he had no idea who that guy was, what he was all about. He also sent me the link he had linked up—but has since taken down—and except for one questionable title in about a dozen or so, all titles of posts are what you would see in any typical Paleo or LC blog.

Yeah, it's not like Nikoley hasn't been duped before.  Oh but he sees nothing out of the ordinary at the Duke website.  Ha.   Jimmy had no idea who the guy was?  

Look, Jimmy has a huge audience and with that audience comes some responsibility.  If (and not being a gullible person I don't for a minute) one believes Jimmy didn't know who he was dealing with, that doesn't get him off the hook.  He should have by the time people asked.  From a simple Google search.  Actually, he knew what he was all about from his own conversations with him on the radio program.   I know many don't want to listen, I myself have only made it about two-thirds of the way through it.  But here is a link to the MP3 that won't give Duke any hits, and here are four minutes I will be including in my audio on this issue.  Duke begins his program with a monologue and discusses his beliefs in the interview with Jimmy.  Jimmy is not that stupid folks.  He knew full well all along who David Duke was, is and forever shall be.  

Screenshot from Google Images
original image link

How ironic Jimmy and his followers call me a hater.  Amy Dungan even made them the tee shirts!  Who would have thought Jimmy was talking about David Duke!

For the record, I don't believe Jimmy is a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or any of that.  I don't think he was doing any recruiting or anything like that by going on Duke's show or linking to his blog.  There's a reason for that.  Duke is the kiss of death.  And for good reason.  So we're left asking ourselves "what was he thinking?"

Jimmy doesn't get a pass on this one.  These pictures say it all.   He's a public figure.  Even right wing political bloggers won't link to David Duke or go on his show.  Those who do are the pariahs of polite society that Duke himself is.  You can't just ignore the essence of David Duke because his "nutrition info" is spot on.  For crying out loud he can't even repeat words like phytoestrogens (he called them photoestrogens) or pronounce ecstacy correctly.   The podcast wasn't much about low carb and getting the message out.   Look at this another way.  What benefit to the low carb he claims to love would having David Duke as an advocate be?  What benefit to society would there be in improving the health of  his listeners/followers?  This was wrong to do, but Jimmy did it anyway.  You have to ask yourself why?

But it's not even about that anymore, it's about Jimmy being Jimmy in response to this.  What matters (yet again) is that he got caught.  Just like when he finally got caught after promoting Heidi Diaz' Kimkins scam and wrote a mea culpa.  Jimmy walked away with thousands of dirty dollars from that one.  He's up to the same tricks now, and he has been at it for a good long time.  He needs to come out and publicly denounce David Duke.  This is hard to do because this time he can't expunge the most damning evidence -- his own words on a recording he has no control over the distribution of.  When Duke inserted politics into the discussion Jimmy doesn't even sound uncomfortable, let alone challenge him or try to steer the conversation off media politics.  He also told a few more whoppers, but heck, what's a few lies when you're already destroying your credibility by yucking it up with a Grand Wizard while he's describing you as somewhat of a wizard yourself?!

And what is up with the low carb community?  What?  Nothing about this from his friends?  From other low carbers?  I mean so what if this man is a vile neo-Nazi, right?  Nutrition transcends politics and religion?  Really?  So what other low carbing radicals are out there?  Louis Farakhan?   I thought a lot of you were Christians, I read about it all the time on your blogs and such.   Is it all OK because you wouldn't want to hurt the movement?  You'll give Jimmy a pass on this?  Wake up!  If he was truly in the dark about Duke, the 5 minutes or so leading in should have had Duke met with a dial tone.  That Jimmy is digging in his heels while playing dumb tells us this was not an honest mistake.  He did it for a reason, I just don't think it's that he's a sympathizer.

I think the time for a sincere denouncement of Duke has passed.  Jimmy's first reaction was as it always is.  Delete, distract and hope it disappears.   What he's left with now is a VERY narrow window of escape if he's unequivocal enough in denouncing David Duke.  I don't think he should be let out of that window, but that's not for me to decide.   

Jimmy Moore will be ramping up a new season of Ask the LC Experts come January.  Will he have experts?  There will be Low Carb Conversations ... will he have a co-host?  Guests?  There will be future LLVLC Shows to record.  Will folks be willing?  Will anyone be asking Jimmy to take their name off the blogroll?  Who will be on board when the LC Cruise sails in May?  Will Jimmy's blog remain on the blogrolls of others? Will people sell their products on his sites?  The response to this will be pivotal in terms of the credibility of this community moving forward.

It's kind of a no-brainer what should happen when someone purposefully chooses to associate with someone like David Duke.  Let's see if it does.  Hopefully this JimKKKins scandal only claims one victim.   That would be a vast improvement on all of those he duped into the Kimkins scam.  Only the community can determine if it claims more.  

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Changing Apologies

There have been some excellent comments on the nature of Jimmy Moore's excusefest.  You think he'd learn by now that a simple apology where one accepts responsibility and moves on with the promise not to make the mistake again.  But this isn't what Jimmy did, he instead started blaming others, myself included, for his woes.  I'm still working on an audio.  It didn't help that I was recording a recipe thing for non-drama purposes here yesterday when my laptop battery fell out and I lost the whole thing before it auto-saved.  Ah well, such is life.  It was brought to my attention that -- in his usual fashion -- Jimmy Moore has updated his apology w/o acknowledging it.  Good thing I saved the original.  

The original paragraph:

So I’ve gotta ask one simple question: if there is guilt by association as has been heaped upon me heavily this week for daring to appear on the radio show of someone being described as a neo-Nazi, then I guess using that exact same logic would require you to believe that both Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff are neo-Nazis too? Surely you jest. None of these people has said a peep over the past ten months since both of them were interviewed on that exact same program and this simply exposes the bigger agenda at play here. The primary objective of the people spreading these lies about me is to try to make me look bad, create this distorted image of me in the low-carb and Paleo communities, call for a boycott of my podcast and other such Gestapo tactics (ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s) as a means of preventing me from continuing to blog, do podcasts, write books and all the other work I do helping others get quality information about weight loss and health.

Has been replaced by:

So I’ve gotta ask one simple question: if there is guilt by association as has been heaped upon me heavily this week for daring to appear on the radio show of someone being described as a neo-Nazi, then I guess using that exact same logic would require you to believe that both Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff are neo-Nazis too? Surely you jest. None of these people has said a peep over the past ten months since both of them were interviewed on that exact same program and this simply exposes the bigger agenda at play here. The primary objective of the people spreading these lies about me is to try to make me look bad, create this distorted image of me in the low-carb and Paleo communities, call for a boycott of my podcast as a means of preventing me from continuing to blog, do podcasts, write books and all the other work I do helping others get quality information about weight loss and health.

For a self-described mental midget, Jimmy sure is a quick study on all the Nazi lingo fit to smear with. What's next Jimmy?  Brown shirt references?  

screenshot link

The only one lying about Jimmy Moore is the person he sees in the reflection on his computer screen.  Yes, for months now he has repeatedly lied about himself to his audience.  And funny he should mention distorted images ;-)   I don't know why he would lie to people about his weight, but he does.  In Australia he described his weight gains over the years as slow and steady.  For months now he's been repeating the claim that he hasn't weighed less than 250 in five years.  Yet on April 20, 2011, he weighed 248.2.  

But whatever ....

At right is a funny Twitter exchange I cobbled together for you from screenshots I received.  The witchhunt nonsense is precious.  

Here's the interesting part.  Many are upset at Jimmy for throwing Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff under the bus for also appearing on David Duke's radio program.  It seems that McGuff was truly duped.  I'm copying from comments to the root post, a comment he left on FTA.

"Here is how it went down with me. My manager at Ultimate Exercise was contacted multiple times asking me for an interview. Dr. Duke described himself as a history professor at the American University in England. He stated that he conducted interviews that were used as content at various high quality websites and blogs. He billed himself as a supplier of content for news sites, and blogs and that he focused on cutting-edge content relating to politics, science and economics. I told my manager that I would not give an interview until I could see examples of his work. He provided links to a few interviews and articles at various websites that gave no indication of anything untoward. I agreed to do the interview. I did not find out I had granted an interview with THE Dr. David Duke until a few weeks later when someone I had done a consult with about a year prior, left a voicemail saying how much he enjoyed the interview and gave the name of the website. My wife and I were on the way to pick the kids up from school when I got this phone call. My wife was driving, so I looked up the website on my i-Phone. When I figured out what had happened, I felt like I was going to puke.

Oddly, he was one of the best interviewers I have ever encountered, and the interview went very well. When the interview actually appeared, it was preceded by an introduction where Dr. Duke stated that the interview was done without me actually knowing his full identity. He said this was done so as not to bias my answers or make me uncomfortable. That may have been his intent, but had I had full knowledge of who he was, I would have declined the interview.

However, the responsibility of due diligence is mine, and I must accept responsibility for this screw-up. If my being interviewed by this man has offended anyone, I deeply apologize. I apologize to my co-author John Little, I apologize to my wife and children, and all others who have affiliated with me or supported me along the way."

I would note that there was no such preamble in Jimmy's interview. They also discussed some politics during his interview.  I would be curious what front websites Duke sent McGuff to to dupe him.  I await Davis' denouncement of Duke as well as his full explanation for his appearance on the program.   Something doesn't sit right here with me about McGuff's explanation, but he's owning to his mistakes and deserves kudos for that.  He apparently knew who THE David Duke was, but did an interview with A David Duke given apparently nebulous background.  Is this guy a low carber?  If so, I'm beginning to think we have to add spontaneous transient mental malfunctions to the list of negative side effects of the diet.  

I've got to copy this comment from Jimmy's excusology.  This woman needs a clue!

Elenor Snow  

"I just figured you did not see a problem"

Why-oh-why is it a "problem" to be interviewed by ANYone about nutrition? Geez, all these folks screaming and ranting -- it was an interview ABOUT LOW CARB! There was *nothing else* discussed. If all you Christians ACTUALLY believe in "love the sinner, hate the sin" (or whatever other platitudes you pretend to live your lives by), then whoEVER on the globe interviews Jimmie about low carb -- Jimmie is perfectly FINE giving an interview to! I'm ... disgusted... by all the sturm-und-drang about this. (I'm dismayed at Jimmie having to or choosing to 'crawl' about "oooh, I made a mistake!" No dammit -- it is (or it should be in America!) *perfectly* acceptable for anyone to speak to anyone about low carb and health.) 

Dr. Oz has probably actually, physically, harmed way more folks with HIS views than David Duke has, no matter how distasteful! Don't see anyone screaming about Oz!

Umm ... Elenor, you should actually listen to the interview before you make claims. Plenty more was discussed besides low carb. And even on that nutrition page, there is enough to know there's something not right about this man. As of this posting, Jimmy can't be bothered to respond to this.  It is apparently fine with him that someone suggested on his site that Oz is a more harmful man than Duke.  Sickening.

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Audio

OK gang, I had some other plans in mind for sharing this, etc.  It's kind of "raw", and if I had a lot of time I'd break this up into parts and organize it a bit better.  But this is a serious issue and timely dissemination of facts is more important than polish.   I'll do my best to get video up and screenshots on a "podcast blog", but for now I hope this will do.  I'm not entirely happy with how agitated I sound in parts, but fuck it.  Yeah that's right, I cursed.  This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.  Jimmy Moore is lying to save his butt and there are people thinking that it's OK to go on David Duke's program so long as you are spreading the good word.  It is all so wrong on so many levels I can't even express it.  The memes and other funny stuff make the disgusting events just a little more tolerable but not much.  So, without further delay, here's Part I.  More to follow ...  {Note:  as things progressed, it just didn't seem worth my time to pursue this project, so there never was a video or any other followup.  Listen if you want to there's nothing really different here, it's just my delightful voice ;-)  }

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