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Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Monday, September 2, 2013

JimKKKins: The Saga of Jimmy Moore and David Duke

Random Replay:


I had just recently updated this post to put the summary and links but didn't think it was necessary to bump.  As far as I was concerned, this whole sad saga was in the past, and the members of the paleo and low carb communities spoke with their actions, for better or worse.  Newbies will find it pinned on the sidebar as the most popular post here ... not exactly sure what that means in the end.  I still can't for the life of me figure out why people continue to promote this guy, but to each their own.    Just they can't say they didn't know ... and Jimmy can't claim to be wrongfully accused ... and I still think the Paleo community could learn a thing or two from the Paula Deen story ... 

But then this past week,  Jimmy Moore is at it again bringing up this issue.  Why I have no idea, because one would think he would rather this faded away into the archives.  But in a really strange turn of events, Joe Salama of The Paleo Movement interviewed Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse:  Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse discuss controversy within the Paleo community.  

This is quite odd in and of itself (as I noted in the comments there that Joe graciously published) although they were not interviewed together.  But last I checked there weren't many who even acknowledge Kruse was ever in the paleo community let alone still a part of it.  But put him with Jimmy after the LC Cruise 2012 debacle?  Seriously?  If anyone doesn't know by now, Jack was denied passage on the cruise because someone named "Lance" emailed or called Carnival to alert them of a suspicious spoof tweet about a bioterrorism attack.  Kruse went on television and threatened me with the FBI when it is obvious in retrospect that his version of events was a culmination of many lies.  You can read that whole sorted saga beginning here and chronologically newer posts.  It also ties us to the other controversy with Robb Wolf, who lied repeatedly about me and our relationship such as it was.  This post may be worth a read.

But beyond putting Jack and Jimmy together again, the interview elicited this bizarre response from Jimmy in response to the question "What role does controversy have in the Paleo Movement?" ...
Controversy is the cancer that can tear apart any emerging movement faster than anything else. Most of the “controversy” that I’ve seen in the paleo community in the past few years is just plain petty. We’ve got a world chock full of people who are being given horrific dietary and lifestyle advice from the mainstream authorities on health and we’re debating things like whether Jimmy Moore is a neo-Nazi because he did an interview about his story on a radio show by a guy he’d never even heard of before…? Come on people, we’re better than this. I get that some people hate me for whatever their reasons, but they are the great minority.
Jimmy has now kicked it up a notch to having never heard of David Duke?  Sorry, that dog won't hunt or whatever cliche you want to use.  Nobody hates you.  Nobody has mentioned this in a while, so you bring it up again now to divert attention from your continual lying.  I do not use that term lightly.  It simply is.  He has lied repeatedly over the past year or so ... about how his weight just crept back on 15 lbs or so a year.  How he hadn't weighed under 250 lbs for 5 years when he had weighed less than that, however briefly as recently as Spring 2011.  And most recently when he repeatedly told McDougall that he was at his lowest weight in his adult life (when he has weighed as little as 215 for around a month or so at least twice since Atkins).  About his cholesterol levels in his book even!

So since he mentioned the David Duke stuff, yeah, in light of his continued lies about his health and weight (why I don't know, since it is all a matter of public record on his blog) ... I think this was worth a bump.

And for the record, JimKKKins is a perfectly apt play on words type nickname incorporating both the Kimkins and David Duke references.  Nobody is too busy to do a Google search before going on someone's radio program.  Nobody.  And nobody is too busy not to read the About page on a website they are linking to from their blog.  Or they shouldn't be linking.  In a pinch his wife Christine could have done that legwork for him.  NO EXCUSES.



Summary: (August 2013)

I want to keep this post pinned as it contains the most information.  At this point it reads in quite disjointed fashion.  So I'm summing this up and feel free to wade through the rest.  Please forgive that there is some repetition of images and content.

On Dec. 7, 2012, Jimmy Moore knowingly appeared as a guest on the David Duke radio program.  He announced this on Facebook 
 
There is absolutely no doubt that Jimmy Moore knew who David Duke is/was ... the "infamous" former KKK Grand Wizard.  There is no other "infamous" David Duke.  On Dec. 22, 2012, Jimmy Moore included a link to David Duke's blog in his "36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012".  He was challenged in his comments section about this: (saved from feed)

by Rian Yyrkah
Jimmy Moore removed David Duke from his list of “36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012,” but the internet remembers. It makes his meek proclamations that “All we talked about was high-fat, low-carb eating and people think I’m associating with this guy’s political views. I don’t get it.” seem pathetic given that he was sending people to a site that endorses racist anti semitic views.
image from Paleodrama

You’re a fan of David Duke?
by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.
by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.

Then the web community caught wind, and Jimmy Moore rushed to delete the incriminating evidence.  By Dec. 29th, Jimmy fired back with a post entitled "If I’m A Neo-Nazi, Then I Guess Dr. William Davis And Dr. Doug McGuff Are Too?" referring to early 2012 appearances by the aforementioned docs on Duke's radio program.    The fact that he had exchanged emails and visited Duke's site and reviewed some of the material there make his situation different than these other two.  I have written separately about this in The REAL JimKKKins Scandal: Dr. William Davis, Dr. Doug McGuff and "Dr." David Duke , The JimKKKins Trio: What did they know, When did they know it, and Does it Matter? , and William "Wheat Belly" Davis agreed to interview with David Duke personally.   I leave it to anyone reading any of this to draw their own conclusions and conduct their business and personal affairs as they see fit.  Just don't claim that you were uninformed, because the information is out there.    Some of this was summarized by someone who was intimately involved in outing Jimmy's prior connections to a scandalous character named Heidi Diaz, aka Kimmer of the Kimkins diet and website.  You might be interested in reading When You Lie in Plain Sight.

In his point-the-finger at others non-apology, Jimmy claimed to not even know what a neo-Nazi was, and yet he accused those of us who were bringing the information to the public of engaging in "Gestapo tactics (ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s) ".  When realizing this conflicted with his Sargent Shultz impersonation Jimmy quickly scrubbed that from his website as well.

This is Jimmy's modus operandi.  Censor, delete, lie and blame others.  He did it in 2007 with the Kimkins debacle and he repeated it five years later with the David Duke fiasco.    I shared some dust-settled-a-bit thoughts in:  More thoughts on the KKKonfederacy of Dunces




Last updated 12/31/12
QUICK UPDATE:  If I've missed anything (Twitter, FB, blogs, etc.), feel free to post in comments here or email me:  carbsane at gmail dot com.  Remember if it's on the web, save it!  Screenshots are a wonderful thing, I like to get the URL in the frame.  

Update Log:  I plan to add to this post to keep as many things in one place as I can.  I also apologize in advance for not getting to as many comments as I'd like.  I'll put a little log up here and a character string you can search on to skip to the new content.   Original publish date/time 12/29/12  6:44am EST

  • Added 12/31  Changing Apologies (search on that)
  • Audio Part 1 added ~9pm 12/31  (search on Audio)
******************************

I am planning to do an audio about this, because I don't think this translates with full impact in the written form.  However I'm throwing together a post to put a bunch of things in the same place as concerns Jimmy Moore and his defense and cover-up concerning his appearance on the radio show of one notorious white supremacist, David Duke.  I will not call him Doctor.

I realize that David Duke is a bit of a has-been in US politics, but he's far from an unknown character.  I'd absolve the younger crowd and international readers from recognizing that one straight away, but there are enough American readers/listeners/participants at Jimmy's various outlets to recognize a true hater when they see the name.  At right is a screenshot of a quick Google search, and here's his Wiki page.  {I'm putting all images in "small", you can click on them to view full size}


All one really needs to know about Duke is that he is a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.   Jimmy Moore refers to him as Dr. David Duke, which in nutritional circles might lead his readers/listeners to believe he's an MD or PhD in a related field.  You can read about Duke's PhD here, with the thesis title: Zionism as a Form of Ethnic Supremacism.  Once rebuffed by the electorate, Duke has spent more recent years spreading the "good word" about the global Jewish conspiracy involving the media, Hollywood, and, well, pretty much anyone and anything not white.  

David Duke has apparently listened to a podcast or two of the LLVLC show.  Not enough to know the truth about his invited guest, but enough to realize that the show had a following and it would be good for his show to get a bunch of hits from Jimmy's vast listenership.  So he invited Jimmy on.  I don't know if by email or phone, matters not.  Jimmy Moore turned 41 the other day.  That's old enough to have heard of David Duke, especially living in the South as he does.  He knew damn well the background and beliefs of the host of the show he went on.  

On Dec. 7 (Pearl Harbor day, ironically) , Jimmy was the guest of David Duke.  He announced this on his discussion forum (dead link) and on Facebook.  I've uploaded a PDF printout of the now-deleted discussion.  What is most troubling to me, however is that neither of these announcements generated much if any response at the time.  As of this post, the FB post remains, though the conversation on the discussion forum has been expunged.  Just in case,  the screenshots are below.


I've C&P's this part of the FB exchange full-size because this will be important later.

So Jimmy offers a flippant "Yep" ... no big deal ... and it would be five days before another response.  This is Jimmy Moore's FB which tells me one of two things.  Either a lot of people don't bother following him on FB despite the numbers, or his circle there is so blinded by ketones to even register all that's wrong here!  Even now, I'm with last commenter Joe there.  Here we were just over 2 weeks since the appearance before anyone really caught on to this when Jimmy Moore linked to David Duke's website in his 36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012.  Don't bother going to the link now, he's removed it.    Here's the PDF Printout.  Yes, he's stealthily, replaced #14 with a different blog.  Where's Lustig with his phweeeeeet noises for sweeping things away?   Ahh, but it's been saved by far too many people for Jimmy to hide from this.  

I am going to admit that when I first saw the name I didn't think much, other than what an unfortunate name for a paleo or LC peep to have.  Then I thought ... naaah ... surely if there was such a person they would know their name association and name their blog differently.  Nope, it's "the infamous" one alright.  Jimmy then published and responded to two comments inquiring about the link before deleting them.  
by Rian Yyrkah
You’re a fan of David Duke?
Jimmy Moore removed David Duke from his list of “36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012,” but the internet remembers. It makes his meek proclamations that “All we talked about was high-fat, low-carb eating and people think I’m associating with this guy’s political views. I don’t get it.” seem pathetic given that he was sending people to a site that endorses racist anti semitic views.
image from Paleodrama
by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.
by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.
That last response was the first I'd heard of the radio show appearance ... little did I know it had been a long done deal.   Below are screenshots of Duke's website yesterday.  Oh yeah, there's an article about Vitamin D the LLVLKarb audience might be interested in.  

  

 

It would have been bad enough for Jimmy to link to a nutrition page on this hate-site, but none exists.  So this was the content Jimmy was recommending to his readers.

UPDATE:  Apparently cached links do indeed to to a nutrition page on the hate-site.  My recollection is that when mousing over the David Duke link it was only to his website, no category.  So I stand corrected that Jimmy didn't link to the front page.  Phew.  That takes him off the hook?  Not so fast.  Below are screenshots of what one would have seen yesterday if they followed his link.


 


As you can see, the header and sidebar linking to Duke's hatespew remain intact.  So I see this as a distinction without a difference.  It's not a "clean" nutrition page.  And there's this "nutrition" story (screenshot upper right):  The Great Porn Experiment - One More Devastating Jewish Globalist Influence and How to Overcome It!   Yeah, it's only one, towards the top of the page.  Jimmy didn't see that one, right?   {end UPDATE}

This goes beyond his usual lack of vetting for linked blogs.  Some months he's linked to long defunct blogs, and yours truly once made the list ;-)  .  But one wonders why on earth he would send readers to this website?  So then he resorted to playing dumb on FB and Twitter.

paleodrama image link

What, who me?  And now, he's claiming he had no idea who David Duke was.  Really.  Loathe as I am to link to FTA, link I must, because Nikoley has weighed in to set us "hand wringers" straight:
Jimmy is guilty of one thing: being successful enough in what he does as nearly a one man show—without staff to vet everything, so he never gets pwned—that he's perfectly susceptible to this sort of thing. I myself have given a bunch of written and podcast interviews. I've checked peripherally to see who was requesting, but not very thoroughly. This could have happened to me, had I not already known who that guy is.
It gets better:
Incidentally, I have direct confirmation from Jimmy that he had no idea who that guy was, what he was all about. He also sent me the link he had linked up—but has since taken down—and except for one questionable title in about a dozen or so, all titles of posts are what you would see in any typical Paleo or LC blog.
Yeah, it's not like Nikoley hasn't been duped before.  Oh but he sees nothing out of the ordinary at the Duke website.  Ha.   Jimmy had no idea who the guy was?  

Look, Jimmy has a huge audience and with that audience comes some responsibility.  If (and not being a gullible person I don't for a minute) one believes Jimmy didn't know who he was dealing with, that doesn't get him off the hook.  He should have by the time people asked.  From a simple Google search.  Actually, he knew what he was all about from his own conversations with him on the radio program.   I know many don't want to listen, I myself have only made it about two-thirds of the way through it.  But here is a link to the MP3 that won't give Duke any hits, and here are four minutes I will be including in my audio on this issue.  Duke begins his program with a monologue and discusses his beliefs in the interview with Jimmy.  Jimmy is not that stupid folks.  He knew full well all along who David Duke was, is and forever shall be.  

Screenshot from Google Images
original image link
How ironic Jimmy and his followers call me a hater.  Amy Dungan even made them the tee shirts!  Who would have thought Jimmy was talking about David Duke!

For the record, I don't believe Jimmy is a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or any of that.  I don't think he was doing any recruiting or anything like that by going on Duke's show or linking to his blog.  There's a reason for that.  Duke is the kiss of death.  And for good reason.  So we're left asking ourselves "what was he thinking?"

Jimmy doesn't get a pass on this one.  These pictures say it all.   He's a public figure.  Even right wing political bloggers won't link to David Duke or go on his show.  Those who do are the pariahs of polite society that Duke himself is.  You can't just ignore the essence of David Duke because his "nutrition info" is spot on.  For crying out loud he can't even repeat words like phytoestrogens (he called them photoestrogens) or pronounce ecstacy correctly.   The podcast wasn't much about low carb and getting the message out.   Look at this another way.  What benefit to the low carb he claims to love would having David Duke as an advocate be?  What benefit to society would there be in improving the health of  his listeners/followers?  This was wrong to do, but Jimmy did it anyway.  You have to ask yourself why?

But it's not even about that anymore, it's about Jimmy being Jimmy in response to this.  What matters (yet again) is that he got caught.  Just like when he finally got caught after promoting Heidi Diaz' Kimkins scam and wrote a mea culpa.  Jimmy walked away with thousands of dirty dollars from that one.  He's up to the same tricks now, and he has been at it for a good long time.  He needs to come out and publicly denounce David Duke.  This is hard to do because this time he can't expunge the most damning evidence -- his own words on a recording he has no control over the distribution of.  When Duke inserted politics into the discussion Jimmy doesn't even sound uncomfortable, let alone challenge him or try to steer the conversation off media politics.  He also told a few more whoppers, but heck, what's a few lies when you're already destroying your credibility by yucking it up with a Grand Wizard while he's describing you as somewhat of a wizard yourself?!

And what is up with the low carb community?  What?  Nothing about this from his friends?  From other low carbers?  I mean so what if this man is a vile neo-Nazi, right?  Nutrition transcends politics and religion?  Really?  So what other low carbing radicals are out there?  Louis Farakhan?   I thought a lot of you were Christians, I read about it all the time on your blogs and such.   Is it all OK because you wouldn't want to hurt the movement?  You'll give Jimmy a pass on this?  Wake up!  If he was truly in the dark about Duke, the 5 minutes or so leading in should have had Duke met with a dial tone.  That Jimmy is digging in his heels while playing dumb tells us this was not an honest mistake.  He did it for a reason, I just don't think it's that he's a sympathizer.

I think the time for a sincere denouncement of Duke has passed.  Jimmy's first reaction was as it always is.  Delete, distract and hope it disappears.   What he's left with now is a VERY narrow window of escape if he's unequivocal enough in denouncing David Duke.  I don't think he should be let out of that window, but that's not for me to decide.   

Jimmy Moore will be ramping up a new season of Ask the LC Experts come January.  Will he have experts?  There will be Low Carb Conversations ... will he have a co-host?  Guests?  There will be future LLVLC Shows to record.  Will folks be willing?  Will anyone be asking Jimmy to take their name off the blogroll?  Who will be on board when the LC Cruise sails in May?  Will Jimmy's blog remain on the blogrolls of others? Will people sell their products on his sites?  The response to this will be pivotal in terms of the credibility of this community moving forward.

It's kind of a no-brainer what should happen when someone purposefully chooses to associate with someone like David Duke.  Let's see if it does.  Hopefully this JimKKKins scandal only claims one victim.   That would be a vast improvement on all of those he duped into the Kimkins scam.  Only the community can determine if it claims more.  


Changing Apologies

There have been some excellent comments on the nature of Jimmy Moore's excusefest.  You think he'd learn by now that a simple apology where one accepts responsibility and moves on with the promise not to make the mistake again.  But this isn't what Jimmy did, he instead started blaming others, myself included, for his woes.  I'm still working on an audio.  It didn't help that I was recording a recipe thing for non-drama purposes here yesterday when my laptop battery fell out and I lost the whole thing before it auto-saved.  Ah well, such is life.  It was brought to my attention that -- in his usual fashion -- Jimmy Moore has updated his apology w/o acknowledging it.  Good thing I saved the original.  

The original paragraph:
So I’ve gotta ask one simple question: if there is guilt by association as has been heaped upon me heavily this week for daring to appear on the radio show of someone being described as a neo-Nazi, then I guess using that exact same logic would require you to believe that both Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff are neo-Nazis too? Surely you jest. None of these people has said a peep over the past ten months since both of them were interviewed on that exact same program and this simply exposes the bigger agenda at play here. The primary objective of the people spreading these lies about me is to try to make me look bad, create this distorted image of me in the low-carb and Paleo communities, call for a boycott of my podcast and other such Gestapo tactics (ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s) as a means of preventing me from continuing to blog, do podcasts, write books and all the other work I do helping others get quality information about weight loss and health.
Has been replaced by:
So I’ve gotta ask one simple question: if there is guilt by association as has been heaped upon me heavily this week for daring to appear on the radio show of someone being described as a neo-Nazi, then I guess using that exact same logic would require you to believe that both Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff are neo-Nazis too? Surely you jest. None of these people has said a peep over the past ten months since both of them were interviewed on that exact same program and this simply exposes the bigger agenda at play here. The primary objective of the people spreading these lies about me is to try to make me look bad, create this distorted image of me in the low-carb and Paleo communities, call for a boycott of my podcast as a means of preventing me from continuing to blog, do podcasts, write books and all the other work I do helping others get quality information about weight loss and health.
For a self-described mental midget, Jimmy sure is a quick study on all the Nazi lingo fit to smear with. What's next Jimmy?  Brown shirt references?  

screenshot link
The only one lying about Jimmy Moore is the person he sees in the reflection on his computer screen.  Yes, for months now he has repeatedly lied about himself to his audience.  And funny he should mention distorted images ;-)   I don't know why he would lie to people about his weight, but he does.  In Australia he described his weight gains over the years as slow and steady.  For months now he's been repeating the claim that he hasn't weighed less than 250 in five years.  Yet on April 20, 2011, he weighed 248.2.  

But whatever ....

At right is a funny Twitter exchange I cobbled together for you from screenshots I received.  The witchhunt nonsense is precious.  

Here's the interesting part.  Many are upset at Jimmy for throwing Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff under the bus for also appearing on David Duke's radio program.  It seems that McGuff was truly duped.  I'm copying from comments to the root post, a comment he left on FTA.


"Here is how it went down with me. My manager at Ultimate Exercise was contacted multiple times asking me for an interview. Dr. Duke described himself as a history professor at the American University in England. He stated that he conducted interviews that were used as content at various high quality websites and blogs. He billed himself as a supplier of content for news sites, and blogs and that he focused on cutting-edge content relating to politics, science and economics. I told my manager that I would not give an interview until I could see examples of his work. He provided links to a few interviews and articles at various websites that gave no indication of anything untoward. I agreed to do the interview. I did not find out I had granted an interview with THE Dr. David Duke until a few weeks later when someone I had done a consult with about a year prior, left a voicemail saying how much he enjoyed the interview and gave the name of the website. My wife and I were on the way to pick the kids up from school when I got this phone call. My wife was driving, so I looked up the website on my i-Phone. When I figured out what had happened, I felt like I was going to puke.
Oddly, he was one of the best interviewers I have ever encountered, and the interview went very well. When the interview actually appeared, it was preceded by an introduction where Dr. Duke stated that the interview was done without me actually knowing his full identity. He said this was done so as not to bias my answers or make me uncomfortable. That may have been his intent, but had I had full knowledge of who he was, I would have declined the interview.
However, the responsibility of due diligence is mine, and I must accept responsibility for this screw-up. If my being interviewed by this man has offended anyone, I deeply apologize. I apologize to my co-author John Little, I apologize to my wife and children, and all others who have affiliated with me or supported me along the way."
I would note that there was no such preamble in Jimmy's interview. They also discussed some politics during his interview.  I would be curious what front websites Duke sent McGuff to to dupe him.  I await Davis' denouncement of Duke as well as his full explanation for his appearance on the program.   Something doesn't sit right here with me about McGuff's explanation, but he's owning to his mistakes and deserves kudos for that.  He apparently knew who THE David Duke was, but did an interview with A David Duke given apparently nebulous background.  Is this guy a low carber?  If so, I'm beginning to think we have to add spontaneous transient mental malfunctions to the list of negative side effects of the diet.  

I've got to copy this comment from Jimmy's excusology.  This woman needs a clue!

Elenor Snow  
"I just figured you did not see a problem"
Why-oh-why is it a "problem" to be interviewed by ANYone about nutrition? Geez, all these folks screaming and ranting -- it was an interview ABOUT LOW CARB! There was *nothing else* discussed. If all you Christians ACTUALLY believe in "love the sinner, hate the sin" (or whatever other platitudes you pretend to live your lives by), then whoEVER on the globe interviews Jimmie about low carb -- Jimmie is perfectly FINE giving an interview to! I'm ... disgusted... by all the sturm-und-drang about this. (I'm dismayed at Jimmie having to or choosing to 'crawl' about "oooh, I made a mistake!" No dammit -- it is (or it should be in America!) *perfectly* acceptable for anyone to speak to anyone about low carb and health.) 
Dr. Oz has probably actually, physically, harmed way more folks with HIS views than David Duke has, no matter how distasteful! Don't see anyone screaming about Oz!





Umm ... Elenor, you should actually listen to the interview before you make claims. Plenty more was discussed besides low carb. And even on that nutrition page, there is enough to know there's something not right about this man. As of this posting, Jimmy can't be bothered to respond to this.  It is apparently fine with him that someone suggested on his site that Oz is a more harmful man than Duke.  Sickening.




Audio

OK gang, I had some other plans in mind for sharing this, etc.  It's kind of "raw", and if I had a lot of time I'd break this up into parts and organize it a bit better.  But this is a serious issue and timely dissemination of facts is more important than polish.   I'll do my best to get video up and screenshots on a "podcast blog", but for now I hope this will do.  I'm not entirely happy with how agitated I sound in parts, but fuck it.  Yeah that's right, I cursed.  This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.  Jimmy Moore is lying to save his butt and there are people thinking that it's OK to go on David Duke's program so long as you are spreading the good word.  It is all so wrong on so many levels I can't even express it.  The memes and other funny stuff make the disgusting events just a little more tolerable but not much.  So, without further delay, here's Part I.  More to follow ...  {Note:  as things progressed, it just didn't seem worth my time to pursue this project, so there never was a video or any other followup.  Listen if you want to there's nothing really different here, it's just my delightful voice ;-)  }



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269 comments:

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Chris said...

Thanks for your work in pulling this together. Patronising Duke is unacceptable and needs to be challenged.

SimonM said...

Yes, well done to you and Melissa for keeping on with this.

I remember when Emily Deans took Paul Jaminet's blog down from her blog roll due to his appearance on a Joseph Mercola podcast and I considered it a bit of an over-reaction -- caveat lector and all that.

I did then consider what I would think was truly beyond the pale (pun intended) -- and it would be something like sharing nutritional info with Nazis. Little did I think this would actually happen.

No surprise to see Richard Nikoley clambering onto the barricades to defend Jimmy Moore on this. Pitiful.

Princess Dieter said...

I have no problem with folks interviewing with, talking or debating with, appearing on a stage with folks who have a crazy-ass agenda, because that's part of the open square of a free society. I can think David Duke has a disgusting view, but still debate or discuss with him.

I do think that linking up to or supporting this man should pose an ethical issue for a Christian. Our Lord Jesus Christ was and is a Jew. Our holy book was written by Jews. The promises and law were preserved by Jews. We owe a debt to them if we are people of the faith (and even NOT of the faith, as we owe a debt for our culture). To support a person who despises Jews and who despises blacks and etc, whose life agenda includes hatred of that sort--that MUST pose a big issue for someone who follows a Lord who says love and make peace.

Jimmy may support the low carb aspects of Duke's work, but Jimmy should decry the bigotry and NOT link up to this man. Heaven knows there are plenty of low carb gurus to support. One doesn't really have to cozy up to Duke.

Well, I say that as assuming Duke has not distanced himself/repented of his bigotry. I dunno. Maybe he has. I don't keep up with the life of former KKK folks. But I know people can change, set aside former views, repent, etc.

Princess Dieter said...

BTW, who is the lady with the "haters" tee alonside Jimmy? She kinda looks like Kenlie (of the airline issue from some years back), but not sure.

lc4me said...

Christine Moore (his wife) on her facebook this morning, For those of you following Jimmy's stuff, you may see or hear some things on the Internet that have been very ugly towards Jimmy. These things are being said by people who hate Jimmy for whatever reason and they are trying to hurt Jimmy in any way they can. These things they are saying are not true. If you hear or see anything, don't get involved. Jimmy is writing a response and it will be up later today. It's hard going through these things but in my Bible reading plan this morning, God gave me Psalm 37.

Larry Eshelman said...

Great post! This is a very balanced summary of the state of affairs. I agree that Jimmy is unlikely to have a hidden agenda (support of Duke's views). Even if he were somewhat sympathetic to those views, any half-way intelligent person would realize that linking to Duke is the kiss of death. My conclusion is that Jimmy is stupid, and this just confirms the impression that I get when I listen to his interviews -- which I can never do without cringing at his comments. Jimmy's success is mainly a result of luck -- getting involved at the right time with a very compelling story (at that time). He has been given a free pass by the low-carb and paleo community for so long that it was only a matter of time before he did something so stupid that no one (with a few exceptions!) can over look it.

Diana said...

Oh man, the fact that he appeared on Duke's show on December 7th makes it all worse. One of the chief beliefs of the white nationalist extremists is that WWII was a product of the Jewish-Zionist-British Imperialist warmongers. Little Adolph was just a nice nationalist who didn't want to hurt a fly, just get back the territory Germany lost in WWI. (Which was, of course, a cooperative venture of Jewish/Zionist/British Imperialist warmongers....)

They live in a very strange world. Bear with me. Because they adore Hitler, and despise anything and anyone who opposed him, their public enemy No. 1 was....drum roll, Churchill! Proceeding from this, they think that WWII vets were chumps.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, but that Jimmy appeared on Duke's podcast on Dec. 7 makes it reek even more.

Of course the idea that he didn't know who Duke is is bullshit. Because he didn't say so at first. When Ryan and I queried him on his website, he said that Duke's message didn't bother him. He didn't say he didn't know what it was. He blurted out the truth. He said, in effect, he'd go on the devil's podcast, if the devil ate meat and fat and not grains.

He cannot unsay what he has said.

BenSix said...

Richard Nikoley writes:

...except for one questionable title in about a dozen or so...

That "questionable title" was "The Great Porn Experiment — One More Devastating Jewish Globalist Influence". Tell me - is that really "questionable"? What, exactly, is the question? I can only think of one reasonable response to it and it is an assertion: that it's naked bigotry.

(It's true that trends within secular Judaism have been influential on the pornographic industry and one could justifiably discuss them. But, then, so have the French - where erotic film was pioneered - the Italians - Guccione set up Penthouse; Damiano made Deep Throat and the Mafia made it big - and pure-bred Americans from Larry Flynt to Hugh Hefner.)

I doubt that Moore is a white supremacist, by the way. I'll bet it has a lot to do with spending too much time inside a culture where the mainstream is scorned as a matter of course and its alternatives are honoured by their very nature. That goes for 90% of health outlets on the Internet and not just low-carbers.

Princess Dieter said...

It's an excellent psalm, and one David Duke should read. More than once.
And the psalm was written, of course, by ... a Jew. :D But I suspect that Christine meant that "evildoers" include CarbSane and those speaking out about Jimmy's blase seeming support of Duke.

I don't for a second think/believe Jimmy is a supremacist/separatist/NeoNazi/etc. Not at all. I think his love of low-carb blinded him. Happens. I hope when he writes his response, he takes responsibility, and it isn't at all about throwing stones at those who were disgusted by his casual support of Duke.

If Lucifer himself were a low-carb boy wonder, I would hope one wouldn't want to link up to him just cause the food aspect got the thumbs up...

log said...

If you check the Free The Animal post about this topic you'll see that quite a few of the comments are at least somewhat sympathetic to David Duke. Frankly, that scares me, I never realized what a cesspool the paleo/low-carb world has become.

Sanjeev said...

Barrie Wilson's idea is that many historical Christian anti Jewish sentiments, acts and incidents happened BECAUSE they are the predecessors

http://www.barriewilson.com/hjbc.html

(FASCINATING book - just offering a link, I'm offline a lot these days so this is not meant to start a discussion, I can't do that @ the moment)

Diana said...

The comments on FTA are a hoot. I love it. Just keep talking, jerks.

@Evelyn & everyone: I hope I don't sound like a snob, but what the idiots on FTA think - and what you and I think - don't matter. We're just "the masses."

Tell you who and what matters: Taubes, Lustig, Eades, Feinman, etc. There may be other names, but those are the big ones that jump out to me. Jimmy has had them all on his show. These names give him what prestige he has.

Three of the four are doctors, Taubes is, well, Taubes. I think that when they find out that Jimmy was on "Dr." David Duke's podcast, they will drop him like a hot....potato. A hot carbalicious potato.

That's the way the world works. Tough, but true. It's the top boys who make the rules.

Nicoley doesn't matter, he's nobody. The guys with the mainstream creds matter. They should know about this.

Sanjeev said...

What RN is likely to do IFF his audience tries to hold him accountable

1. self justify with invalid anecdotes about expat anti-Jew brits
1a (in other words, RN thought DD's anti-Jew stance was meant as affection)
2. declare war ... on somebody, for SOMEthing WAR I TELL YOU, WAR !!!!!
I will fight them on the beaches, I will fight them in the air
BRING IT ON !!!
2a RETREAT !!!! RETREAT !!!! RETREAT !!!! RETREAT !!!!

Chris said...

Indeed it is a bit scary. The idea of having an open mind about holocaust denial?

fiero-flash said...

Evelyn,

I think what Jimmy did is beyond despicable, and I'm actually not cutting him as much slack as you are (maybe he is a white supremacist; I don't know anymore).

I do think you should make a clarification/correction. You said this:

"It would have been bad enough for Jimmy to link to a nutrition page on this hate-site, but none exists."

Even though Jimmy labeled the link simply "davidduke.com", when you clicked through it went to "http://www.davidduke.com/?cat=320". This shows only the David Duke articles tagged "Health/Fitness". Of course the header links on that page to things like "Jewish Extremism" are still there, so you're only a click away from Duke's bile.

But even so, I don't think it's completely accurate to say that David Duke doesn't have a nutrition section and so Jimmy couldn't link to that. He has one (at least one auto-created by category) and Jimmy did in fact link to it.

fiero-flash said...

Minor correction: The link label was "DAVID DUKE" (not "davidduke.com"). The target of the link was as I said above, "http://www.davidduke.com/?cat=320".

This can currently still be seen in Google's cache:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_FCg9Wi_0P8J:livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Diana said...

Maybe it depends on the browser but when I clicked on the link, it sent me to "Dr." Duke's home page. I remember this distinctly. However, when I entered the link you gave - for research purposes only - it did indeed link to Duke's health page. If you scroll down you'll see that there is on this page an article about how the Jooz control the porn industry. Somehow I don't think that Larry Flynt enters into this story.

In any case, Jimmy's original stance was to blow off those of us who questioned him. He said he didn't care what Duke's other messages were, his nutrition advice was "spot on."

LeonRover said...

The names Feinmann, Eberstein, Berkowitz are obvious middle European names and they appear in Moore's list. He has used Richard Bernstein's books as gifts.

It will be up to these names - particularly if any of their recent ancestors migrated to the melting pot post WW2 - to decide if they wish to be associated even at one remove, with DDD of KKK.

If that did not occur to Jimmy before he did the podcast he is a fool, if the thought did occur, then he is knave.

fiero-flash said...

Princess Dieter, it's one thing to go on an extremist's show to debate them. Many people couldn't even justify that, but others could rationalize that if they debate well they have a chance of changing some listeners' minds and therefore accomplishing something good.

But to just go on the show as if the guy is perfectly fine? Why would Jimmy help an extremist in his goal of making him seem more normal so he can more effectively push his views?

You'd hope Jimmy would have realized the mistake he made by the time Duke, a former KKK Grand Wizard, gave Jimmy the title of "Low Carb Wizard" on the show. But, no, after the show he went on to promote his appearance there, as if he were proud! When someone asked him if this was the infamous David Duke, he just answered, "Yep". That's the kind of answer you'd give if you thought you were being cute and pushing the limits a bit. That's not the kind of answer you'd give if you belatedly realized you were giving aid to a vicious antisemite who writes of people of African descent as if they're animals.

This is why I'm not jumping to say that I'm sure Jimmy's not a racist, that this was simply poor judgment, etc., etc. Because I'm not sure. I don't see how you associate with this guy so easily if you find his views as repugnant as most people do. And I don't see what money was in it for Jimmy anyway. Is Duke really going to bring him that many more page views or whatever?

I think you could even make a contrary case that Jimmy went in wanting to help Duke out and agrees with Duke enough that he was willing to risk a financial hit to himself.

praguestepchild said...

Indeed Chris, everyone seems to be embracing holocaust denial there. It is incredibly stunning. I couldn't help myself, I ended up embracing holocaust denial myself, just sort of fell into the echo chamber. I admire everyone here on this blog and their heroic ability to not engage in groupthink. Most of all, I admire anyone who has the moral fiber to take a stand against Nazis in this day and age.

Harry's Acolyte said...

I see that Moore's wife has commented on the FTA post. She is definitely foreshadowing his defense: he didn't know who Duke was, etc.

Euclid Flomm said...

Diana is right-the only thing that matters is how the experts who have lent credibility to Moore react to his foray into Livin' La Vida Nazi. I suspect that most will flee from any further association. Also, these days everyone knows that one atrocious decision can haunt you forever on the internet. People can and probably will keep track of who continues to associate with Moore even after this mess. It's hard to believe that any MD would want a future Google search of his/her name to come back with hits linking to David Duke!

fiero-flash said...

Here's the actual HTML from Google's cached page (replacing angled brackets with square brackets so I don't actually make a link):

[a href=http://www.davidduke.com/?cat=320]DAVID DUKE[/a]

That would go to the page I indicated.

It's possible that Jimmy initially linked to Duke's front page but then one of his first efforts to put out the fire was to switch it to link to the health category, and that's the version Google has cached.

anotherdeadletter said...

Blinded by the [potential] exposure is my guess and is surrounded by a group that largely are at best indifferent to Duke's sentiments. It doesn't appear anyone gave a damn until it became known outside the LC community.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, whether the Gurus shun him. I'd like to think the LC community at large would be offended by it, but I don't know. Truth is, I've never understood why a guy as unhealthy-looking as he does has a nutritional following to begin with.

Javeux said...

Everything everyone says is a lie - it's all a big conspiracy! Maybe that's why Jimmy got involved with Duke. He must know a thing or two about insane conspiracy theories and mental gymnastics. Referring to the bible while you're attempting to deceive and cheat people is pretty low though, even given what passes for Christianity nowadays.

Chris said...

stunning sarcasm.

I was referring to a comment on the blog where the commenter was urging an open mind about Duke's positions.

Javeux said...

It seems to be more of a big enabling (in the psychological sense) cult than a legitimate weight-loss endeavour. To disregard valid criticism of the cult leader so offhandedly makes it clear it was never about science or results. The followers seem more interested in playing the victim and making excuses for their eating disorders than opening their eyes to their deteriorating health and the cult leader's own unremarkable results.

As someone who isn't religious, I don't understand it at all, but this sort of mentality has existed for thousands of years. It's why people still see validity in the bible, and it's why somebody with woeful body composition is able to exploit, deceive and cheat people under the guise of a nutrition guru.

praguestepchild said...

Did you also happen to notice the sarcasm inflicted upon this commenter? Or is your fine sense of detecting stunning sarcasm only active when it is directed at yourself?

Chris said...

I noticed Sean.

lc4me said...

Christine admits on her facebook that Jimmy is releasing a statement to save his ass. Notice she doesn't say he did anything wrong, just that people hate him.

"This situation could possibly hurt Jimmy's character if a response of some sort is not given. People who don't know Jimmy could believe these lies that are being said if a response by Jimmy is not given. After Jimmy makes his response, we'll leave it at that and people can believe what they want. At least by Jimmy responding, the other side is out there for people to read."

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I think Jackie Eberstein will be amused (NOT) to learn that Jimmy thinks she should be shot! (totally unrelated to JimKKKins).

Harry's Acolyte said...

Sean, you DO realize that your boy Nikoley is taking the stance that will attract the most controversy, right? That drives his "belief system," such as it is, on these matters more than any other single thing.

In other words, he's following his predictable pattern: trolling all of the people who follow his blog with yet another contrived contrarian stance on a hot topic, which allows him to eventually keep bragging to these same followers about how he knows how to blog and how hard he has worked to create a following, so that he can keep telling himself that he's a good guy and that people like him.

You're nothing more than one of those followers.

I point this out here so that you'll hopefully come to realize that this is how you're viewed whenever you post somewhere.

Harry's Acolyte said...

Yeah, well, he better be careful with how he chooses to slam Duke. It wouldn't surprise me if Duke has been informed of these goings-on and is preparing for Moore to claim that he didn't know who he (Duke) was. ;)

Duke MIGHT have saved correspondence with Moore that could be instructive on the issue of what Moore knew or didn't know.

praguestepchild said...

Harry, if it helps you to dismiss me as some sort of Nikoley follower instead of engaging with me directly, I understand. It's an easy out and allows you to feel smug and superior without using pesky logic or anything.

I admit to using sarcasm as a blunt weapon, but I don't resort to cheap shots, personal attacks or intellectual dishonesty. I point this out so you might realize how pathetic you are being with your patronizing schtick.

Harry's Acolyte said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Harry's Acolyte said...

.... said the Nikoley stooge.

At any rate, I have no interest in discussing anything with you. You have virtually nothing of merit to offer and I probably have less.

Keep fighting those internet battles, you crazy diamond!

Lighthouse keeper said...

Excellent point LeonRover

praguestepchild said...

Stay classy Harry.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Amy Dungan.

anotherdeadletter said...

That scene does seem to have more of an anti-establishment feel to it than anything. That's probably why it's called Low-Carb instead of what it really is: High-Fat.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I agree with paragraph 1 -- If one takes a contrarian view. If you listen to the interview, Jimmy is clearly not doing that. He doesn't even skip a beat feeling ill at ease. This is truly disturbing. Though I still don't believe him to be a sympathizer.

Diana said...

If I'm not mistaken, when I was browsing thru WHY WE GET FAT, Taubes dedicated the book to Jimmy (amongst other people). "To Jimmy, for just being Jimmy."

This latest debacle is....just Jimmy being Jimmy!

So yeah, from now on, when you google "Dr. Robert Lustig"...David Duke will be on page two of your google search!

SimonM said...

Apparently Doug McGuff and William Davis did it, so it's OK.

Thank God that's sorted out then.

log said...

Wow just wow, I never realized both Doug McGuff and Wheat Belly appeared on David Duke's show, but I just googled it and you're absolutely right. I have no idea of Willian Davis' politics, but Doug McGuff is a right wing Libertarian and has talked about it on his blog.

I'm starting to see why maybe Jimmie didn't think this would be a big deal. Apparently in the insular and mostly (but not always) right leaning low-carb blogosphere, appearing on a Neo Nazi's talk show is somehow normal. I've said it before, but again, to me that's just scary.

Chris said...

no, not Doug?

Lighthouse keeper said...

On his website he has just accused those rallying against him on this matter of using " Gestapo" tactics. Not a very good move here if turning the tables on his critics is the intention, rather like trying to dig your way out of a hole

SimonM said...

I honestly would like to know if there is anyone Jimmy wouldn't accept an invitation from seeing as it's only the nutritional views that are important.

I guess if you have stuff to flog then all other considerations go out the window.

And if there's one thing the internet has more of than low carb bloggers, it's racists. Whole untapped market there -- who knows, maybe coconut milk by the gallon can clear up those pesky knuckle dragging scars?

Also furtive masturbators. I'm looking forward to seeing the LLVLC Girls Gone Wild special.

Christ, actually, no I'm not.

Jeff said...

I'm only 20 seconds in to reading Jimmy's statement, and he's already dropped this gem: "In fact, I didn’t even know what a neo-Nazi was before all of this drama unfolded online " (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

This is a 41 year old, educated adult?



SimonM said...

VE HAFF VAYS OF MAKING YOU PORK (fried in butter generally).

an3drew said...

THAT is your response, Jimmy Moore?

I don't think that you are a neo-Nazi. I'm guessing that many others likewise don't think that you're a neo-Nazi.

I'm saying that you knowingly associated with a neo-Nazi and promoted it knowing full well what you had done, all in an effort to promote yourself.

I'm saying that you're a weight loss fraud and failure, and that you have somehow managed to fool people into following you and buying in to your failed ideas and advice. Guys like you bother the hell out of me.

an3drew said...

Classy? Are you the guy who is all over FreeTheAnimal posting what I'll call the c-word (four letter word, starting with C and ending with NT)? We all have differing standards but by my standard you show no class at all and have no standing to discuss anyone's class.

If that's you, you've even posted it on the latest FreeTheAnimal article. Very nice, Prague.

[If you're not the guy dropping the c-word all over FreeTheAnimal then I apologize and retract this comment.]

oboereedgal said...

So Jimmy claims he is too busy and needs an assistant and that he didn't know who Duke was. UMMM.....there is this thing called the internet and google. It takes several SECONDS to type a name into the little search box and click enter. Not to even mention that his website should have said it all. The main page of tabs said enough about the guy without doing any other digging. So instead he plays the victim and puts most of the blame on his "haters" and that he just didn't know. If you don't know then look it up! Today's technology has made it super easy...there's just no excuse for not knowing. That's a bunch of bullcarbs!!!

Sue Staltari said...

They won't drop him. jimmy will get a pass.

an3drew said...

Yeah, and it's a nice touch to point out how the EVIL HATERS have caused his wife to bawl her eyes out.

Steven Vanderbill said...

So Mr. Moore accuses his critics of using "Gestapo tactics" which he says are "ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s." I wonder how he became such an expert on the history of Nazi Germany while at the same time claiming he has "didn’t even know what a neo-Nazi was" prior this incident?

Sue Staltari said...

If he truthfully didn't know beforehand about Duke why not just say it on twitter rather than playing dumb.

Kade Storm said...

Kinda' like what I said on Woo's blog.

At this stage, he's either a profound ignoramus--to the point of being socially crippled--or a wilful hypocrite and liar who tends to support the 'hypocritical religious person' stereotype with the modus operandi of placing his wallet before his supposed values of piety.

I guess most would be inclined to lean towards the second, but then again, he thinks protein is chocolate cake, so perhaps he is that damned naive and ignorant.

Sue Staltari said...

And he probably sent her over to FTA to make comments on his behalf.

Unknown said...

Mostly this stuff appeals to cranks so I can see why the gurus would be eager to appeal on Duke's show, Duke has been making money off the cranks for several decades now

eulerandothers said...

?

Wait a minute. Could Jimmy Moore possibly have known what Nazism was and not know what neo-Nazism is? Is that possible? Does knowledge of the former imply knowledge of the latter?
Discuss amongst yourselves...

gunther gatherer said...

News Flash: Plant Positive is back, and has completely unloaded on Jimmy, Taubes and Eenfeldt. They are formally toast.

Ouch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc8e49i9N68

Steven Vanderbill said...

I should add that it seems Mr. Moore's intention here is to accuse his critics of being the real Neo-Nazis while at the same time characterizing David Duke only as somebody "described as a neo-Nazi" and that's after originally saying that he didn't care about Duke's views apart from those on nutrition. This man is a disgrace and he has compounded the original injury with these scurrilous accusations. I cannot imagine a more disingenuous apology.

Lighthouse keeper said...

Yes it is surprising he could not put two and two together, given that he knew what a Nazi was - the prefix neo should pose no problem to someone steeped in discussions on the Paelolithic versus the Neolithic

{assuming he knows what these words mean}

Diana said...

Maybe the little fish won't drop him, but the big guys will.

Diana said...

"Harry, if it helps you to dismiss me as some sort of Nikoley follower instead of engaging with me directly, I understand."

Huh? What have you said that anyone can engage with? What ARE you saying? Just stop the sarcastic bullshit and be upfront and direct. I'll be happy to engage with you! Say what you mean, mean what you say, and be honest.

Lowcarb team member said...

In my opinion it was a mistake, a big mistake. Evelyn Kocur knows this and states on this blog “For the record, I don't believe Jimmy is a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or any of that. I don't think he was doing any recruiting or anything like that by going on Duke's show or linking to his blog” so why all the excitement and Evelyn’s wet dream ? Because she is a failure. She can’t control her weight or her mouth. She stands for nothing, very much like my nemesis Carbophile. Jimmy is liked because he is a human being that talks openly about his success and failures. He is far from perfect, just like the rest of us. Our money is on Jimmy, he is an open and honest guy. What you see is what you get ! What is Evelyn ? Why is she dedicating her life to the rubbishing of Jimmy and others ? Why can’t she get to a healthy weight ? That’s easy, lack of self discipline and she eats too much ! She can certainly talk the talk, but she can’t walk the walk !

Eddie

an3drew said...

What's your point, "Eddie"? Why have you posted here?

"Why is she dedicating her life to the rubbishing of Jimmy and others ?"

I believe that this is a mis-characterization. I do not believe that she has dedicated her life as you describe. Can you point to a single shred of evidence to back up this claim?

Diana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Diana said...

I am reading Jimmy's response on his website and I am aghast. First, no one knew about the two other guys who were interviewed and now everyone will. Second, his response is beyond incoherent, the babblings of a man who has cracked under the pressure.

Unknown said...

I doubt any of us is willing to devote our lives or even 10 minutes to it but it would be interesting to know if any of these interviews were subsequently licensed for re-broadcast to groups such as StormFront which are certifiable Neo-Nazi sites.

Once you climb in be with those people who knows where you will wind up.

an3drew said...

"Before I share with you the whole story about the specifics of this nonsensical meme, let me tell you what all of this is REALLY about–believe it or not, there are people in this world who hate me and everything I stand for and would like nothing more than to bring an end to the online presence of Jimmy Moore and “Livin’ La Vida Low-Carb.”"

-Jimmy Moore

That is pathetic.

Unknown said...

Yes I was amazed by that it has to make you think about the entire subject and whether you want to be associated with it at all, how many of these people are sympatico with the hate groups?

Galina L. said...

I think Jimmy is very unlucky as well. No one noticed that Dr.Davis went to the same "Dr."Duke without anyone making a peep. Probably because Dr.Davis went basically everywhere. Moral of the story - if you want to do something questionable, move with tornado speed. Or you will have to tell the story how tame-consuming is to google people on the web.
I am not his hater at all, I don't want him to go to dogs, I don't think he is a Nazi, but I really dislike what that Duke stands for. I think JM will take better care of his reputation in a future because of that story.

Galina L. said...

Fortunately or not, but you can claim ignorance of any proportion if you didn't kill anyone by mistake.

Euclid Flomm said...

Moore's post was a repellent wallow in self-pity and paranoia. He just finished off his own reputation.
Nice of him to out the other two MD's, Davis and McGuff, as Duke guests! Guess he figured if he has to wear this so should they. And why are two prominent MD's with bestsellers flogging their books on David Duke's radio show? Is there really a significant market for health and fitness books among the Stormfront set? This whole scene just gets more sordid by the day.

Galina L. said...

Came on, Ganther,just be realistic. Who would pay attention to Plant Positive except people who already agree with him in advance? His nickname suggests having a distinct agenda which is an invitation for like-minded people but a repellent for everybody else (except opposite-thinking trolls).

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Feel better? Jimmy is digging his own grave here. Needs no help from me apparently.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

It is beyond words Diana. I agree. And Euclid, yes, it was helpful of him to let us know there are others so judgmentally challenged as he to associate with this scum.

Anyone buying his "I didn't know, aw shucks y'all, and stop making my wife cry" act needs to check into a real asylum. Pathetic.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Why won't he name one of those people? Since he's such a name dropper. LOL. It would be funny if this wasn't such a serious topic.

lc4me said...

It's because he's not talking about you, he's talking about his friends whom have been outspoken against what he did. You're not the focus of what he's saying, although you're probably part of it, it's the friends he thinks betrayed him by being outspoken about this. Like Steve Cooksey, Jamie Van Eaton, Erica Joslin, Linda Duffy, Regina Wilshire, etc. Your criticism he expects, theirs he would not, expect maybe for one of them. These are people he holds as friends and their reaction shocked him because he did screw up royally and they haven't backed off it because his apology was not one.

lc4me said...

Yes he is, because anyone with half a brain would realize he knew and still linked to him later, after he was questioned about the radio show. He chose to ignore those who challenged him and did what he wanted to sell books or whatever else he has on his site. Just think logically, wouldn't he at least check when he was challenged? Wouldn't he just link to Duke's front page and not go down the site tree deeper to avoid the front page? How could he compare his critics to gestapo if he had no idea what a neo-Nazi was? Come on. He thinks we're all stupid and will just go along to get along and just shut up.

Galina L. said...

Just to be more clear, I don't think JM has reasonable excuses, but usually after people admit their mistakes, there is nothing could be done about what was done, because then conversation will go in circles, like "You did wrong so a and so", "I know I was wrong, sorry about it", "But what you did was really, really wrong", "It is true, but I already said I was sorry".

BenSix said...

If you ignore his opinions because he's a vegan why would you read low-carbers who enjoy animal products? I've been watching his video on dietary cholesterol, for example, and I'm totally biased against it because I really enjoy my morning eggs.

But, still, he could be right. There are no impartial investigators here. It's the science that matters.

Galina L. said...

I don't think he is a sympathizer, more likely the guy whose style is to try to be nice to everyone. May be it qualified him to be moderater during discussions.

Galina L. said...

Is it a good argument to shut anyone up because that person had a joking exchange about an "c" world ONE YEAR AGO and commented about the fact that brits used it in a different contest? How convenient.

Galina L. said...

There is an extend to question personal biases because some are based on own life experiences. I tried limiting animal products and saturated fats in my diet after listening to some health gurus, it resulted in the worsening of my health,so I have been enjoying eating eggs , meat and butter daily together with vegetables for last 5+ years. I feel like I have a good excuse for my pre-judgement against vegetarian propaganda because it contradict my life experience.
I tried to listen that vegan advocate out of sense of fairness, but couldn't finish. I always suspected vegans have animals interests closer to their hearts than my own.
I read LC advocates who praise animal products as a hymn to the food that keeps me healthy. In return I do a public service - warn in comments people that overeating of butter, meat and cream is still overeating which is wrong with any food, and not a way to loose weight.JM is a good and convenient example to prove my point.

michael Grankey said...

Jimmy's not too smart, he says that his wife was "balling" her eyes out.

Craig said...

I don't know who Doug McGruff is and I don't much care but Dr. Davis is palling around with racists now too? Unbelievable!

Princess Dieter said...

I'm kinda aghast here. I have no idea who McGruff is, but Dr Davis had so many promotional venues, even Woman's World (a magazine known to lead folks to buy diet books in large numbers, and the magazine responsible for making Heidi "kimkins" a big wad of cash). Why did he go to Duke's venue? It's pretty disgusting to me. He's a doctor. He's not poor, being a cardiologist and all, plus selling the book, plus selling the heart kit. Come on, did he really have to sit with Duke to sell some copies? Wow. Again, I"m big on sharing the public square, all sides and all, but this kinda just boggles my mind. At the very least, if I were to show up in such a place, I'd say, "I think the anti-semitic and racist vileness this guy propagates is stinky crap that needs to be flushed down a toilet and never heard from again, and I fully disassociate from it...okay, that cleared up, let's talk low carb." I'm guessing no such preamble?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

In comments Jimmy is saying that the lack of outcry against Davis & McGruff is evidence that he's being targeted b/c of some personal vendetta. Sheez. Had I known Davis was on Duke's show it would have been blogged on. I don't get it either. Jimmy is also saying he's too busy to check out media venues he might appear in. Don't worry all, he's looking into hiring someone to do that! I have just the person Jimmy! How about Christine! In any case, Davis surely has "people" doing these things for him. Now either Rodale was involved in booking the appearance on DD, or it was done on the side by Davis himself. As I can't imagine a mainstream publisher like Rodale would go within a million miles of Duke, I'd have to conclude the former.

McGuff is the author of Body by Science, near as I can tell the original exercise 5 seconds per week guy.

I really cannot believe my eyes that these two would go on Duke's program.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Where can I find public criticism of Jimmy's appearance on the David Duke program from any of those names? Even Regina has criticized other aspects of Jimmy's latest antics and allowed comments about this fiasco, but not addressed it publicly that I've seen. FB maybe? I'd appreciate links to something I'm missing.

Nah ... He's talking about me. It's all he's got left. Try to discredit the source of the information and hope nobody notices idiotic claims like "In fact, I didn’t even know what a neo-Nazi was before all of this drama unfolded online over the past few days with the really disgusting and unwarranted memes being created with my photo on them that you see in this blog post."

BTW, the first meme was not made by me, I got it from a private FB page so didn't give credit. The second one I can only presume he created himself as he offers no credit on that one.

Sue Staltari said...

From David Duke on his site:
"Note: My radio programs interview a wide range of experts in many areas of life, politics, finance, health, science, and the fact that I interview them obviously does not mean I necessarily agree with every position they may represent, and certainly does not necessarily mean the individual agrees with every position that I hold. I endeavor to engage the personalities I interview in a low key, almost anonymous manner, so as not to affect the interview by issues extraneous to the subject at hand.
I don’t want my other viewpoints to influence the candid response of the person that I interview on the subjects at hand. There is such an intellectual suppression going today, that the new inquisitors against free speech want to make some subjects and some personalities off limits. I will interview and engage in discussion with anyone in regard to any subject I find valuable to the well-being of my own nation and people and indeed all nations and peoples around the world."
http://www.davidduke.com/?p=26766

BenSix said...

With the respect, the fact that you are feeling good - while excellent to hear! - does not mean they are healthy. I feel great after eating eggs. Heck, I feel pretty good after a nice cigarette. Yet this does not mean they can't be doing damage that I'll feel twenty years down the line.

This is not to say that eggs and meat are damaging - still less that they're as damaging as cigarettes! - or that you do not have the perfect right to eat as you prefer. But it seems unfair to vocally dismiss the guy without grounds on which to do so.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Oh the intellectual suppression! That 4 minute clip is smack dab in the middle of the interview.

I'm not surprised Nikoley is supporting him on this. Calling it an inquisition.

Galina L. said...

Greatly improved health and health markers after 5 years of eating two eggs a day plus minimizing all vegetable proteins is more that just feeling good.

BenSix said...

Fair enough. I'm sorry if I sounded presumptuous.

But the point remains that his biases nor your experiences are fair grounds on which to openly dismiss as a propagandist. Sure, he has an agenda. Everyone has an agenda. But that is not proof that he or anybody else are letting their biases dictate their arguments.

Franziska said...

Hi Evelyen,

As a not-very-prominent low-carb blogger who appeared on Jimmy Moore's Low Carb Conversations a little over a year ago, as well as the proud wife of a wonderful Jewish-American man, I will publicly express my disappointment at Jimmy's appearance on David Duke's radio program and subsequent link to his blog. I know Jimmy visits your site and will no longer promote me as a low-carb friendly dietitian after seeing this, but I honestly don't care. I'm only five years older than Jimmy and have known about David Duke and his message of hate for over 20 years. He ran for president in 1992, and the media made a huge deal about this former KKK Grand Wizard; coverage of his campaign and primary results were routinely covered on the nightly news and various newspapers and magazines. Impossible not to know who David Duke was prior to December of this year, sorry. And a brief glance at the content on his website or Wikipedia -- "David Ernest Duke (born July 1, 1950) is a former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan" -- would have refreshed Jimmy's memory had he somehow forgotten that name. I do agree with the majority of commenters that Jimmy is not a racist or Holocaust denier.

I've been periodically reading your blog, Jimmy's, and a few others for months and haven't commented because I've really been trying to stay out of all the controversy and craziness, but I finally decided I had to speak out about my feelings on this. I follow a low-carb diet for blood sugar control and will continue to promote it for people with diabetes who are interested, but as of right now being part of the online Low Carb/Paleo world is really leaving me cold. Thank goodness I have a wonderful full-time position helping our nation's veterans learn how to nutritionally manage a variety of health conditions. Truly feel I have the best job in the world :)

Anyway, thanks for your blog, Evelyn. I don't agree with you on everything but always appreciate your candor, attention to detail, and sharp wit. Happy New Year! :)

Franziska

anotherdeadletter said...

Fantastic. Let's take your anecdotal experience and use it to re-landscape the nutritional world.

People are different. What works for me, or you, or evelyn doesn't work for everyone. A person is not biased if what works for them doesn't work for you or vice-versa. Saying you can't abide another person's bias because of your own, while at least being honest about it, doesn't make your own argument any stronger. Finding potential flaws in science is one thing, but there's no point to even paying attention if you're just going stick the fingers in your ears.

river rance said...

Somewhere Dr.Kurt Harris could be thinking, "I told you so about Krause and Moore". However,I don't believe he's that kinda guy and wouldn't say anything like that, but was DKH ever correct. A lot of commenters are saying, "I don't think Jimmy is a racist or a neo-nazi" nobody really knows, I don't and you don't. But one thing is crystal clear, Jimmy Moore is a liar. He knew/knows full well who Duke was/is. Type his name in Google. And if anyone, for a minute thinks JM didn't do a search, then you also probably see nothing wrong with his appearance on a radio show that promotes racism,hatred, and is hosted by a Holocaust denier, even traveling to Iran and Syria for conferences to deny same(the whole notion of Holocaust denial is repugnant). No, Jimmy Moore saw potential new "unique visitors" to his site. Moore figured he could skirt the bigger issue of what Duke stands for by saying, "I'm discussing about nutrition" and could fly under the radar and pick up some sales from his e-commerce site. He was dead wrong. Most people don't care what criminals (Duke convicted felon) or hate mongers eat or their opinions on food. Moore's response at one point in the interview was; "as you stated so eloquently!" Jimmy Moore is also an idiot for thinking every person that disagrees with JM hates JM. Most people including myself call him out for being a liar, a huckster, and a serial dieter. That's not hating.
He is making the LC/Paleo movement appear to be chocked full of kooks and wing nuts, why not, the powers to be continue to support him(Robb Wolf speaker on the LCC) and even let a failed low carber moderate discussions at conferences. Leaves some people scratching their heads and asking "why?" To make matters worse for JM and his "paleo peeps". The headline of his supposedly explanation, was nothing but a lie while throwing Dr's Davis and McGuff under the bus as he tries to drag them down with him, "hey they did so I thought it was OK". Who knows, maybe "wheat belly" said "you ain't gonna believe the hits and sales boost if you go on Duke's radio show!" I'm sure don't know if they conversed before hand but, I'm sure of this; LLV_C just his a LOW point and it's only because people hate Jimmy Moore? Bollocks!!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Happy New Year to you too Franziska! It's nice to "see" you, I wish it wasn't under these circumstances. You know, it is so very odd. I still feel that low carb should have a significant place in dietary intervention and even as a lifestyle (not the extremes!), but the longer I knock around in this community the more I get turned off to it. I don't think these folks realize just how much of a turn off that really is and how counterproductive.

ANY association with David Duke is just unacceptable. Period. If any mainstream health or fitness person went on his show they would be shunned if this were exposed. That any in this community are defending this on any level makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.

Diana said...

Galina, what is your point? Who is shutting anyone up here?

Diana said...

@Harry: "Duke MIGHT have saved correspondence with Moore that could be instructive on the issue of what Moore knew or didn't know."

Yep.

Diana said...

The comments at The Asylum would not be complete without Galina telling us about her personal experiences, regardless of the subject at hand.

Diana said...

He was definitely referring to Evelyn. Don't ask me to go back over there and re-read his swill, but at one point I said to myself, "this is about Evelyn." As for Regina, she has not said a peep about him. I put comments on one of her posts about this. She allowed the comment to go through but did not respond to it. I understand that she's taken down her link to him but she hasn't explicitly said why.

I think that Regina began to turn off on Jimmy when Jimmy began to turn off on her favorite macronutrient, protein, and become a fat-a-holic. That's the source of the rift.

It gets crazier by the day.

fiero-flash said...

Evelyn,

Maybe my previous post slipped through the cracks during all the hullabaloo, but if you could address this, I would appreciate it.

As I noted above, I don't think this sentence is accurate: "It would have been bad enough for Jimmy to link to a nutrition page on this hate-site, but none exists."

When I first looked at Jimmy's site, the link was to here: "http://www.davidduke.com/?cat=320". That page shows only the David Duke articles tagged "Health/Fitness", so it is in essence a nutrition page.

The Google cache of the page backs up my recollection:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_FCg9Wi_0P8J:livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

As does the Bing cache:

http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22jimmy+moore%22+%22david+duke%22&d=4933977645646049&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=tnNJXf86UhfDtotxIeYp6gPOZfl-GWD8

As does the Yahoo cache:

http://72.30.186.176/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=%22jimmy+moore%22+%22david+duke%22&fr=yfp-t-701&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22jimmy+moore%22+%22david+duke%22&d=4933977647022314&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=8CgCqwjmfmPDtotxIeYp6gPOZfl-GWD8&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=2Dzmlpuiw7QuOEUCp6AmOA--

Again, I think what Jimmy did was vile, and I think he knew all along what Duke stood for and for whatever reason it didn't matter to him, so I'm not defending him. Even the page he linked to has header links to topics such as "Jewish Extremism", so Jimmy has no excuse.

I just think in the interest of complete accuracy you should amend your statement that Jimmy linked to Duke's front page and that Duke has no nutrition page. Even though Diana's recollection is that that is where the link went, and perhaps that is your recollection as well, I don't think overall the evidence supports that.

Thanks for looking into this.

Kade Storm said...

Galina,

You have a reason to be biased. It coincides well with your own life experiences.

So why would you tell Gunther to be realistic when his experience coincides with PlantPositive?

Why do you get to tell him to be realistic, but he doesn't get to tell you to be realistic and the matter's square?

Cheers.

Kade Storm said...

Amongst guys, in Britain, it is fine and dandy. Sometimes it is used as a joke and sometimes it is used in criticism. However, it is never used on women in that very context, which is where RN is dead wrong about English culture.

gunther gatherer said...

Thanks for the support Kade. We all have our own version of "realistic", I guess.

Galina, you obviously have your own bias or you wouldn't disparage clips you haven't even seen yet.

PP happens to be a vegan, but that doesn't disqualify his findings and facts with regards to Taubes, Jimmy and the other LC gurus. He does this on his own time, without a 500,000 dollar publisher's advance to support him, and I'm sure it takes much longer to find and check all the guru's "facts" than it does for these idiots to casually write them.

Diana said...

@rr - fantastic, but I think that McGuff and Davis deserve to be thrown under the bus, or rather - called out as Jimmy has been called out.

Sheesh, the only reason McGuff and Davis weren't called out is because no one knew that they had been on Duke's podcast. McGuff is a bit player, Davis rather more well-known but not a star. Jimmy is a star in the LC/Paleo world. He WANTS to be, he has worked for this, relentlessly and furiously.

An analogy would be to Hollywood. If Brad Pitt were caught in a gay tryst, it would be all over the Internet in a viral second. No one cares about Travolta anymore. No one would care about a bit player. But when you are a leading man, you've got an audience to answer to.

And Jimmy wasn't caught, he promoted it! Now he's squealing because people noticed what he did. Sheesh again! Isn't that what he's all about?

If he had an ounce of maturity, he'd have sucked it up and issued a simple apology. He could have said that he didn't know who Duke was, but he's sincerely sorry that in his zeal to promote the wonders of low carb to as vast an audience as possible, he did something ill-advised and in haste. He could have said that he deserves to be called out but that he meant no offense.

That would have been a lie, but it would have been smart and consistent.

But no, he didn't do that. He buried an apology in the middle of a self-pitying rant, lashing out at the people who merely called attention to what he did. If he had been smart, he would have THANKED them.

Again, I don't think Jimmy is in terms of raw IQ, stupid. I think he's so deluded, and so caught in the web of his food obsessions that he has absolutely no judgement and is therefore functionally stupid. His emotions look awfully like his eating habits, don't they? Maybe there is a lesson in that for all of us.

Jane said...

Evelyn, have you come across an interview with William Davis in which he agrees with the interviewer that there is a conspiracy to get everybody eating wheat so they'll all drop dead and solve the population problem? The conspiracy apparently involves Bill Gates. I haven't read Wheat Belly but according to Chris Masterjohn it's full of um, questionable science. Somehow I'm not that surprised to hear Davis likes Duke.

river rance said...

We concur.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I've fixed this, thanks for bringing it to my attention. My recollection is that when I moused over the link it went to the home page. But as I said in my update, his header and sidebar of links to hate remain, in addition to the inflammatory post said nutrition page that should have given the Jimster a hint. That was written Oct 30, 2012, and is only the third story down the page. It would have been the second one down the page until 12/21.

Diana said...

Kade: I meant no one is trying to shut Sean up because he used the C word where-ever. I am saying that Sean is a piece of shit provocateur who is contributing nothing to this discussion. I'm not surprised he's a regular contributor to Nikoley's website. The guy is a dime store slime-bucket.

Gadfly said...

"He got caught".

Hidden in plain sight. Good thing we have such sharp-eyed detectives on the case.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I've never heard a Davis interview. This man is a parody of himself, and the fact that he has any mainstream following is an abomination. Battery acid in my oatmeal. Sheesh. But there's more to this Duke thing. This man has a mainstream publisher and made the mainstream media rounds which means an agent and bookings done for him. I don't imagine that outfit would be so STUPID as to book him an interview by a neo-Nazi former KKK Wizard, so how did that happen? SICKENING.

river rance said...

I just commented on the "Wheat Belly" site and asked if he knew that Jimmy Moore "outed him" as having gone on David Duke's radio show. I also asked WB if he knows who David Duke is? Mentioned that JM denied knowing who Duke was. I also asked did his book publisher know and/or approve of him associating with Duke? Took a screen shot…not sure if it will get published, waiting on moderation

an3drew said...

I also posted on the "Wheat Belly" site virtually the same thing. My comment didn't survive moderation.

Stephen Ferguson said...

I've never heard of David Duke, but then learning the name of every American racist would take a very long time. I agree that Jimmy was duped (even Jimmy admits he was duped) but so what?

Just because I'm commenting on this blog, doesn't mean I endorse any of Evelyn's ideas.

Harry's Acolyte said...

Being a virtually anonymous commenter, as you are here, is in no way comparable to Jimmy, an American of a certain age, appearing on Duke's show. Duke is known to virtually all educated people of a certain age.

I understand how you, a non-American, might not be familiar with Duke.

I don't know of a good Brit analogy for you, but he's way more well-known, even today, than Graham Norton.

greensleeves said...

Oh dear, you have to realize that all these far-right libertarian types are in fact tinfoil hat racists. This includes Robb Wolf, Masterjohn, Moore, Davis, McGuff, Attia, Eenfeldt, Dayspring and Taubes. The libertarian sentiment has always been that racism is a personal choice (remember the dustup when Rand Paul said there was no problem with businesses refusing to serve black people?) and that the gold standard is the way to go. This craziness is just their baseline. Even Eenfeldt posted the pro-low-carb video made by that friend of Glen Beck's who sold gold bullion on his show, as well a piece by Pat Robertson recently. Jimmy's world begins at Pat Robertson's racist "university" where they didn't until recently allow inter-racial dating. Due to his southern born-again environment, that's just where he starts. These views are nothing new to Moore or to his libertarian nut-case pals. Do you hear anyone except the far-right libertarians talking about low-carb? It has truly become a fringe belief.

Stephen Ferguson said...

Kinda shocked to discover Graham Norton is a neo-Nazi facist!

Harry's Acolyte said...

You've now commented twice here, which means that you endorse all of Evelyn's ideas.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Harry's is right. How old are you? Jimmy knew. Or he should have known. QED. It's not like Duke hides it.

anotherdeadletter said...


Duped? He admitting to knowing exactly who Duke was and what he stood for.

I'm beginning to think people no longer understand what the word means.

eulerandothers said...

'Duke is known to virtually all educated people of a certain age.'

I didn't know anything about Duke. Now I do. I also found out he was elected to be a State Representative in Louisiana. Now, I'm learning more - this is publicity for the guy!

And I AM of a 'certain age.'

Harry's Acolyte said...

I certainly don't doubt you, but I stand by what I said. A quick Google search of "How well-known is David Duke" reveals that many, including the Anti-Defamation League site, consider him "perhaps America's most well-known racist and anti-Semite." (To quote the ADL site)

Stephen Ferguson said...

How is Jimmy admitting to knowing who Duke is?:
"Honestly, I’d never even heard of this guy before but I clicked through to some of the links my listener provided and saw some superb articles about why we need Vitamin D for optimal health, the dangers of consuming wheat, how cutting carbs can improve health and weight and so much more."

I'm 40 and English. We tend not to elect racists here (or at least not people who are vocally racist).

Stephen Ferguson said...

American's most well-known racist? Some pretty stiff competition for that job.

Stephen Ferguson said...

You duped me! I'd better get some carbs down my throat.

anotherdeadletter said...


Uh, did you miss the part where he was asked if it was the *infamous* Duke and he said yes? How is that not a confirmation of knowing who the guy was? It's right there on your screen if you scroll up.

I really couldn't care less how old you are or where you're from. Age or nationality doesn't make someone more informed or less ignorant, as you express with each post.

Harry's Acolyte said...

The guy tweeting him literally spelled out "KKK" and talked about Duke's site, so both your question about the infamous Duke and that guy's tweets more than spelled it all out. No question whatsoever. Each of you, separately and independently, spelled it out.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

@euler, I've known you from comments here for a goodly long time and take your word for this. I don't know how politically active you are, but it does seem odd that anyone Jimmy's age or older had never heard of the man because as Franziska mentioned the media went nuts when he ran in 1992 (primaries). But here's the rub. Duke doesn't hide his beliefs behind a facade (he used to, I remember reading a site of his someone linked to a decade or so ago where he was drawing seemingly rational parallels between black, gay, etc. power/pride and white power/pride ... there was no tell it like he really feels stuff on that website ... I believe it was when he was running for office ... governer of LA?). Even that nutrition page had unsettling stuff on it on its face.

Diana said...

Stephen,

In comments on the post which originally contained the link to Duke's blog, I and another commenter asked him about his appearance on Duke's show. He flippantly blew us off, saying that Duke's opinions were of no consequence to him, as long as he was OK about nutrition. He scrubbed the comments. He wrote the same on his forum blog, where I questioned him about this.

Evelyn has written about this and put up screenshots of the scrubbed comments. Please do some reading before you mouth off.

Regarding British superiority over Americans on race relations, I realize I am a lot older than you, but when I was an intrepid world traveler (30 years ago) and visited Britain 25 years ago, I heard enough "nigger" and "Jewboy" to last a lifetime.

Get off your high horse. Why is it whenever there is an exchange between a Brit and an American, you insufferable pricks have to boast about your moral superiority?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Brits tend not to elect racists? ROFLMAO.

Please Stephen. Jimmy KNEW who David Duke was.

Ducky Quacks said...

I hope someone got screen shots of that "apology" the Jimikins just apparently revised it.

Ducky Quacks said...

He revised the paragraph about the "gestapo" tactics as continuously hammered at by Erica Joslin. He made no reference to the change, by way of noting the update, nor did he apologize for how he characterized those criticizing him. For shame. Quack.

Stephen Ferguson said...

"Regarding British superiority over Americans on race relations, I realize I am a lot older than you, but when I was an intrepid world traveler (30 years ago) and visited Britain 25 years ago, I heard enough "nigger" and "Jewboy" to last a lifetime."

Yeah dude, if we're playing the "n=1" you should try walking through America (California and NY excepted) in 2012 as a white guy with a black wife. Nobody uses the word "nigger" here anymore. When did you stop segregating your schools?

Stephen Ferguson said...

And seriously man, in 1988 the people of Louisiana elected this "former grand wizard of the KKK" to the house of Representatives. I think you have much bigger problems than Jimmy Moore accidentally appearing on a racist's podcast.

river rance said...

With respect sir; I'll make it simple for you Stephen Ferguson; Google David Duke. Jimmy was not duped, he grew up in the south and very well knows who David Duke is.

Ducky Quacks said...

And if one has not noticed, Jimmy is still driving web traffic over to David Duke's website with links in his so called apology. Not only to his own interview (self serving), but also to the interviews with Davis and McGuff (why do I think of the kids dog cartoon with that name?)

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

So let's see Stephen -- there are still racists so Jimmy should get a pass? There are no racists in your country? LOL. There are racists everywhere, and I'd like to think Jimmy isn't one, but his actions are supporting a notorious one. KNOWINGLY.

Stephen Ferguson said...

Maybe he voted for him too?

anotherdeadletter said...


You're disrespecting your country with this lame trolling. Put an effort in. Britain has spawned some of the best wind-up artists on the web and I think you can do better.

Harry's Acolyte said...

Can you prove he didn't, Stephen?

Galina L. said...

As a person who has a bias I asked Ganther to be realistic about potential impact of the video he provided on people with an opposite point of view, not to be realistic about what that vegan said. He though that the video was very convincing for everyone. I honestly tried to watch the video, but couldn't finish. I didn't try to encourage Ganther to start eating animals or to change how he thinks or eats or question his experiences. I think I am realistic enough.

Diana said...

"When did you stop segregating your schools?"

Never had it in NYC or in fact, most of the 50 states. Did you know we have 50 states?

"And seriously man, in 1988 the people of Louisiana elected this "former grand wizard of the KKK" to the house of Representatives."

That's why we don't believe Jimmy never heard of the guy.

More to the point, did you read this post? I mean, the one on this page. I don't think you did, man, so I'm gonna cut and paste for ya:

"by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me"

Read that? That's not, I don't know anything about his racist beliefs, it's, I don't give a shit.

How brain dead are you? And look, I'm not the one who is turning this into a duel between the US and the UK, you are.

If you are going to slam us for segregation, can we blame you for starting slavery in your New World colonies in the first place? How many colonies did Britain have in the New World? How many of them had slavery?

Diana said...

"Yeah dude, if we're playing the "n=1" you should try walking through America (California and NY excepted) in 2012 as a white guy with a black wife."

Yeah right. They were coming at ya in Massachusetts and Minnesota with the white sheets and the nooses. You are a bullshit artist.

eulerandothers said...

Some people just don't follow 'the races' and I'm one of those people. I'm not politically active - at all. I'm not saying that the name 'Duke' hasn't floated by as part of the political flotsam and jetsam and registered as such, for me, but as to any particular meaning, no, the name has none.

But now, I actually visited the guy's website... how much attention you're giving Jimmy and this guy may be paying off in ways you don't appreciate yet. I never would have, had this topic not come up. And I NEVER look at LLVLC and wanted to stay far away from Taubes' 'non-profit' until so much discussion prompted me to go check it out.

I read Arianna Huffington's website (The Huffington Post) but I'd be hard pressed to tell you what exactly AH believes at any time, despite looking there from time to time at articles about fashion, health, etc. Could Duke's website have nutrition opinions or blogs? I wouldn't know. But checking them out, I might not pay attention to the rest of the site. I wouldn't necessarily be interested - and, as far as I can tell, AH is far more stylish, more polished, more attractive, than Duke!

Kade Storm said...

Hey Diana,

That was a response to Galina's post, which I think was in reference to something Nickoley posted. I remember reading Nikoley's defensive comment about how it is okay to use the word since he sees other guys use it on each other. He then evolved that defence a step further by stating that it is part and parcel of English custom and can be used in jest against women, which I consider to be a false claim because that is absolutely not the case and any dude caught doing that over here would likely get a very hostile reaction from others, men and women.

Stephen Ferguson said...

No Evelyn, what I'm saying is this:

Jimmy is pretty dumb for not doing his due dilligence, but this whole "contributing to a racist's site makes you a racist" thing is a slippery slope. After all, you've contributed to Jimmy's podcast, does that make you a neo-Nazi facist too? The fact that you didn't know that Jimmy was a racist at the time obviously just means that you didn't do enough research.

The same argument means that everyone that has ever contributed to Fox News is a right wing, homophobic, racist religious loony too.

Accidently posting on a racist's site doesn't make you a racist. Being to be a ignorant, hateful, bigot does. Like everyone else (apart from me), Jimmy has lots of faults, but he's never struck me as anything apart from a decent, respectful, christian man. I really don't think he's capable of what some of you are accusing him of.

Night night.

S

Stephen Ferguson said...

+1 on the whole Huffington Post thing.

Kade Storm said...

I see, Galina. So you were basically telling him, "Give me a break. You think I'm going to buy into this? Get real."

Well, as someone who'd rather minimise the cholesterol scare based on his own bias, I cannot help but give PlantPositive credit with at least offering a more thorough look into the evidence that I found has been selectively picked in Taubes' book. He seems to put more of an effort into making his case as opposed to the trivialised approach found in the opposition. If you gave it a shot and it didn't convince you then good. At least you tried to hear the argument, some people don't even go that far.

Also, for someone doing this free, he's a heck of a lot more thorough than people selling books. Then again, I personally know what kind of an insidious effect the editing and marketing process can have on the integrity of a book's content.


Anyway, I take the cholesterol topic a bit more seriously than others and here's what I've found. Even within low-carb circles, as it stands, the cholesterol question seems like a vague gamble and I don't think anyone should be celebrating a very high LDL count. Most of the success stories involve an improvement in lipid profile and general metabolic markers.

I think this is where PlantPositive isn't entirely in the wrong. Fact is that eating all those foods, my markers are exceptionally good, from lipids (high HDL; low LDL; low triglyceride - a trim total cholesterol count) to glucose tolerance. I also know that others who eat similarly to myself have far worse markers and have issues in the LDL and fasting glucose departments, which doesn't seem to improve with age until and unless it comes with weight loss, which is not everyone's goal.

anotherdeadletter said...


The only thing Evelyn has accusing him of is being dishonest. Did...did you scroll up and look that he knew exactly who the guy was? Of course not since you can't argue that he didn't know when he admitted he did. Then he said he didn't. That? Is dishonesty. Are you saying it isn't?

The fact that you'd actually equate critiquing someone on the internet with going on their show and promoting them is hilarious and kinda scraping the bottom of the intellectual barrel. I guess Dawkins has actually been promoting religion all these years to your mind?

"decent, respectful, christian man"

He's a liar. Address that. Go ahead. Don't skirt around it and dream up absurd parallels to try to deflect it.

Diana said...

@adl - Ferguson is a troll. I'm sorry I engaged with him. No use in rehearsing what has already been written clearly more than one time. Never mind that Evelyn has said more than once that Jimmy isn't a racist or a neo-Nazi or a sympathizer. You could say that 1000 times and the troll would feel he is entitled to paraphrase slanderously.

Jimmy's behavior here is part of a pattern of pathological lies and smearing anyone who dares disagree with him as a "hater."

Galina L. said...

I wish PlantPositive will represent his thoughts on the subject in the form suitable for a reading, it would be easier to go through it.
@Diana,
One of main reasons I am here because I want to compare experiences. Ganther's experience let me to realize that for some people vegetarianism works. He found it with try and error. I remember reading his comments from long time ago.You recent comment that you actually feel great on any diet,unless you sometimes eat whole loaf of bread with butter and only then gain some fat was actually eyes-opening for me. I thought that mostly people with metabolic disturbances (and acquired from that health issues) have real trouble to stay thin. It also allowed me to understand why you are so much against so called "LC dogma" - because for you it doesn't make any sense, doesn't produce any difference; neither you , nor Evelin need to be in ketosis.

Ducky Quacks said...

And if you think Jimmy doesn’t know exactly who I am, ask him about Jimmy Moore: Good Gone Wrong and then once that was done, what happened next with Kimkins Exposed.

Here is what he wrote: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/top-10-low-carb-movers-shakers-of-2007/2103

Finally, I couldn’t let this list of the year’s most influential movers & shakers go by without recognizing and honoring the impact of a collective group of people who helped bring awareness and concern about one of the biggest scams to ever hit the low-carb community. Yes, even I was pulled in by it and later apologized to my readers for not knowing better sooner. But the members of the online forum called Low-Carb Friends did. The “Why the Fascination with Kimmer?” thread is chock full of the day-to-day soap opera that has surrounded what has been known as the Kimkins diet since early in the year. The egregiousness of this starvation/anorexic diet that has since caused some major health problems for the most ardent supporter spawned a whole boatload of anti-Kimkins blogs. The most famous one of them all is Kimkins Exposed by someone or a group of people calling themselves Just Ducky. The duck avatar soon became synonymous with those who didn’t want to see the good name of the low-carb lifestyle being drug down with this dangerous diet scheme from a woman named Heidi Kimberly Diaz, a weight loss fraud who never lost a pound and a well-known scam artist. The low-carb community owes Low-Carb Friends and the anti-Kimkins bloggers an appreciative THANKS for all the work they did to expose this before more people got hurt.

Ducky Quacks said...

Now where are my DUCKS?

Sanjeev said...

thanks for your work, quite enlightening. Around the time I got fed up with and was quitting dogmatic, extremist low carb Jimmy was doing this stuff with Kimkins.

> Now where are my DUCKS?

I don't know, PZ Meyers might (WARNING: NOT for the delicate)

or copy and paste this (WARNING: NOT for the delicate)
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/10/13/the-ducks-are-gonna-get-you/

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1277

I'm hoping that because of these links Jimmy will accuse me of betiality (duck rape).

gunther gatherer said...

Kade and Galina, remember I was VLC for several years, and LC/paleo for 2 years before that. My cholesterol markers were initially fine eating that way, but by the fourth year they were going through the roof. Peter at Hyperlipid said high LDL was nothing to worry about, while at that same time Kurt Harris was writing that "the best cholesterol is one left unchecked" or something like that.

So I let it go for as long as I could. Until I got 3 kidney stones in a row. Then I realized I had let these LC gurus think for me for way too long. It was time to do MY OWN research, not rely on theirs.

And what I found was that they had been twisting, convoluting and misinterpreting the facts, and sometimes just plain omitting stuff that didn't agree with their biases.

PP is a hero simply because he takes the time to check their facts and then tell you where they lied, got it wrong or failed to include info. This has nothing to do with his veganism. It's about being told the truth.

Lighthouse keeper said...

In my opinion the Plant Positive series is the best critique of the paleo and low carb diets available albeit coming from a vegan position which might turn off some readers here. The new series of videos covers much the same ground as this blog and would be good viewing for anyone contemplating a paleo/low carb regime or anyone on one and having serious doubts about continuing. Galina the first two series are available in written form at his website.

Kade Storm said...

I hear you, Gunther. Curious to know though. . . Did you get into all of this for the primary purpose of losing weight or improving a bad health marker?


I may come from a different nutritional leaning, but I do think that the PlantPositive puts good effort into his videos and presents a proper kind of challenge to the Low Carb Paleo paradigm as opposed to some of the more flimsy, flat-line arguments one hears from militant vegans who just babble the same "fat is bat, mayte," line, ad nauseum. PlantPositive actually takes the arguments of the other sides by way of studies and arguments and then deconstructs them rather than throwing just his own counter studies. In fact, going by his videos, I don't get the message that people should switch to vegetarianism or veganism, but that people shouldn't get too comfortable with hyperlipid diets if their numbers are worsening.


I also agree with the general view that he would be doing his work a greater degree of justice if he transcribed the content of his videos and loaded them on to a website for others to read along with the slides he presents.

gunther gatherer said...

I got into this to lose about 20 lbs. I never lost it on ad-lib VLC eating. In fact I gained weight that way. The only way I lost weight was by severely cutting calories. But even near my goal weight, I was feeling horrible with the usual VLC issues (fogginess, severe constipation, low libido, and then back pain and kidney pain).

That's no way to live, even if one does reach goal weight. Not to mention the potential dangers of eating that way long term, whether skinny or not.

Diana said...

Kade, I understand all that. I know British culture reasonably well for a Yank.

Having said that, I think that Sean is a Nikoley dittohead who is trolling here. People responded, and Galina, appeared to defend Sean - I questioned her on that. OK?

This misunderstanding is trivial in the context of the point of Evelyn's post about Jimmy and Duke. That's the important thing.

Galina L. said...

Come on, Diane, Kade gave you the right answer. For unknown reason sometimes I don't see all new comments, so I saw Kade's response first, then I found your answer.

Larry Eshelman said...

My story is somewhat similar to Gunther's (following Peter at Hyperlipid and eating a VLC Paleo diet) except that I got my kidney stones before my lipids went through the roof (TC topping at 461). However, in my case, I started following Paul Jaminet's advice and my Tc as of a little over a month ago was 210 (and HDL of 74).

Galina L. said...

Ganther,
as I told before, I remember well your story and respect your experience. My story is opposite. I had couple kidney stones too during the year when I tried Dr.A.Weil's diet and my health got generally worse. In mine mind when body gets generally sicker, kidney stones are another manifestation of a failing health.
I never had any cholesterol problems when I was much less healthy than I am now, regardless of how I feel , my doctor is always happy with my blood work, so I don't care about it. When I have less allergies, better resistant to infections, has fewer migraines and better mental state, it is all what counts. When weight is not creeping up, it is also a plus.
I think macro-nutrient-content of a diet doesn't represent the whole picture.Why my diet could be called any negative names like horrible or whatever, is I eat basically the same food as my husband does, but minus starchy parts and with more veggies on the side, and I don't snack? I don't cook separate food for myself, do not drink cream and my veggies are not swimming in a butter.

Kade Storm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kade Storm said...

"I know British culture reasonably well for a Yank."

Well, then you and I kinda' have something in common. Heh.

Again, the response was simply a clarification specifically for Galina who tends to frequent that website. Perhaps I should've addressed her by name in that post. Outside of that, I don't have any constructive statements to make in this particular thread.

Good day to you all.

Lowcarb team member said...

In a few weeks time this will have all blown over. Jimmy will still be where he is today, still spreading the word as he sees it. Gary Taubes will still be appreciated by many and still earning a good living, as will others featured here. They will still be appreciating how much free publicity blogs like this are giving them. There is no such thing as bad publicity, almost !

Eddie

Unknown said...

If I were Jack Kruse I would start promoting myself with "No verifiable links to Neo-Nazis!"

Kade Storm said...

LOL!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

And if that's true, it is why LC will never make it into the mainstream and no serious person will take it's advocates seriously.

Lowcarb team member said...

"Being a virtually anonymous commenter, as you are here"

Are you for real ? Stephen Ferguson is his real name complete with mug shot and you anons call him an anon. What meds are you people on ?

Eddie

Lighthouse keeper said...

Yes I KNOW exactly who you are, and I noticed your latest blog quoting the Daily Torygraph {sorry telegraph} sticking the boot into NHS workers again are we? This time half of all doctors and nurses are too fat to give advice on nutrition with any credibility are they? Never mind , thank god you have Jimmy Moore and Gary Taubes to turn to instead of all those qualified dunces. Strange how a few years ago nurses in the U.K. had near angel status and now thanks to the conservative government they are regarded as cold hearted bitches leaving people to starve and wallow in their own mess - If you can't see political propaganda when it rears it's ugly head I suggest you bugger of to Richard Nikoley's libertarian website.

Kade Storm said...

Haha! Daily Torygraph. Nice one.

Almost every person on ground, including sincere liberal market advocates who've seen the results, uniformly agree that NHS is getting screwed under this reform when all it needed was a mild management overhaul. This is not how you fix your problems by having a blatantly out of touch elite class pundits determining the struggles of those beneath their policies. Trust the 'anarchists in civil cloaks' to quote their libertarian dogma and decimate any sense of civic order. Oh! But it's fine so long as their chums can exploit the consumer culture to acquire ostensible level of wealth, which somehow resolved the problem at the cost of making everyone else irrelevant.

Lowcarb team member said...

Hi Lighthouse keeper

The success rate for diabetics getting to a truly safe HbA1c is pitiful in the UK, for type ones less than five percent. Somewhat better for type two’s, but still extremely poor. For five years I have been asking medics and dietitions and anti lowcarbers, how do I hold non diabetic HbA1c numbers on two Metformin a day other than lowcarb ? From diabetes Nurses to Endocrinologists never an answer.

As for non diabetics who are obese, the answer is out there. But strict self discipline is required. For us diabetics we have a damn good incentive. We want to keep our limbs, kidneys and eye sight. Weight loss was of secondary importance.

Kind regards Eddie

anotherdeadletter said...

Wow, nice to see someone admit what it's all about! Not helping people lose weight or bettering their lives, but to provide Moore, Taubes and company with an income.

I mean, we all knew that just from the phoney science and half-assed theories, but it's nice to see it confirmed on the screen.

Sue Staltari said...

Weight loss, regardless how usually improves diabetes. For some the thought of lost limbs not enough incentive to lose weight.

Sue Staltari said...

As a small band of low carb diabetics admirably trying to help folks with diabetes how has following your advice impacted on your own diabetes? Out of curiosity have you all managed to lose weight if needed and has diabetes improved and is manageable?

Lowcarb team member said...

To Sue Staltari

Thank you for your questions/comments.

“As a small band of low carb diabetics admirably trying to help folks with diabetes how has following your advice impacted on your own diabetes? Out of curiosity have you all managed to lose weight if needed and has diabetes improved and is manageable?”

Sue of our group I am a heavy meds user at two metformin tabs a day. The rest have been meds free for almost five years. Some of my friends have HbA1c in the fours. I have not achieved this level. But apart from diagnosis all my numbers have been in the fives. I am 63 years of age at that will do for me. Almost all of us needed to lose weight, in my case I was 50lbs over weight at diagnosis. We have all kept the weight off. Two weeks after diagnosis I buried my Father, riddled with diabetic complications. It focused my attention.

“Weight loss, regardless how usually improves diabetes. For some the thought of lost limbs not enough incentive to lose weight.”

Sue I am a photographer, not much work for a blind photographer.

Happy New year. The very best of luck and health to all.

Eddie

Diana said...

@Sue,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19386029

" In clinical trials in individuals with type 2 diabetes, low-fat vegan diets improve glycemic control to a greater extent than conventional diabetes diets. Although this effect is primarily attributable to greater weight loss...."

I am not a vegan. Just saying.

And this:

http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf

"Conclusion: Normalisation of both beta cell function and hepatic insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetes was achieved by dietary energy restriction alone. This was associated with decreased pancreatic and liver triacylglycerol stores. The abnormalities underlying type 2 diabetes are reversible by reducing dietary energy intake."

Happy New Year and good health to everyone!

Lowcarb team member said...

Results for England. The National Diabetes Audit 2010-2011
Percentage of registered Type 1patients in England
HbA1c >= 6.5% (48 mmol/mol) = 92.6%
HbA1c > 7.5% (58 mmol/mol) = 71.3%
HbA1c > 10.0% (86 mmol/mol) = 18.1%

Percentage of registered Type 2 patients in England
HbA1c >= 6.5% (48 mmol/mol = 72.5%
HbA1c > 7.5% (58 mmol/mol) = 32.6%
HbA1c >10.0% (86 mmol/mol) = 6.8%

Eddie

Diana said...

Left out most important part of 2nd study: "After the baseline measurements, individuals with type 2 diabetes started the diet, which consisted of a liquid diet formula (46.4% carbohydrate, 32.5% protein and 20.1% fat; vitamins, minerals and trace elements; 2.1 MJ/day
[510 kcal/day]; Optifast; Nestlé Nutrition, Croydon, UK). This was supplemented with three portions of non-starchy vegetables such that total energy intake was about 2.5 MJ (600 kcal)/day. Participants were provided with suggestions of vegetable recipes to enhance compliance by varying daily eating."

Happy New Year & Good Health to everyone!

Stephen Ferguson said...

The mainstream will never take Low Carb seriously because Jimmy appeared on a racist's podcast?

Eh?

Stephen Ferguson said...

I eat <25g a day, I've lost 70lbs, and my HbA1c is 4.9%, which is better than most non-diabetics.

Stephen Ferguson said...

@Diana - Roy Taylor's Newcastle diet is by definition a low-carb diet (70g of carbs per day). Some people do show dramatic improvements on it, but it's a hard slog, and obviously not sustainable.

Not aware of anyone that has "normalised" their HbA1c using the Newcastle diet to a HbA1c of less than 5%.

Stephen Ferguson said...

@Sue - I agree that weight loss is helpful in controlling T2 diabetes, but it isn't entirely necessary. I had mine licked inside a month (on a VLC diet) without losing any significant weight. Although if you maintain good BG control most people find that their weight drops naturally (which is not surprising, because both are symptoms of metabolic derangement).

Stephen Ferguson said...

@adl

Why is making money a bad thing? Everyone has to feed their kids? Do you get paid for your job?

What car do you reckon Dean Ornish drives?

Stephen Ferguson said...

...on diet only. I don't take any drugs.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Eddie, I am very happy that you and others are achieving great success managing your diabetes with low carb.

I have at least one diabetic here that is managing their's with the DASH diet with an HbA1c in the 4's if I recall correctly. So part of what I do here is try to get out information that dispels the myth that LC is the ONLY way to treat diabetes. I've discussed many studies, including early insulin treatment, where diabetes has been reversed. By that I mean the person can eat normal amounts of carbs and process them.

The single biggest lie in the LC community is that carb consumption and using your pancreas will wear it out and cause diabetes. Poppycock.

LC dogma and scare mongering has non-diabetics obsessing over normal blood glucose fluctuations thinking they are going to become diabetic or lose a limb or whatnot. Meanwhile there are many obese diabetics who are so anti-med from the LC message who try, but cannot adhere, to evermore extreme dietary protocols, who should just get some insulin therapy!!

So Gary Taubes is a menace to the diabetic community. He ultimately really is, because he doesn't understand basic human physiology and doesn't care to delve into the vast body of diabetic research. Jimmy Moore? An ass clown at this point. Let's be blunt. He has made a circus of all of this and it shouldn't be allowed to continue. I don't know what is up with THREE people in this community getting "suckered" to go on Duke's program but that is NOT GOOD. I hope this will not blow over.

This is bigger than the livelihoods of a few people. And if you think LCHF-Paleo = the new Hitler Youth sounds inflammatory, that is where this is headed if the supposedly upstanding members don't speak up and speak out for once and for all!

anotherdeadletter said...


Do you have some sort of comprehension problem or do you just deliberately ignore the context of comments and discussions? Or is it just a reading problem? Did you actually scroll up yet? See where your boy lied?

Where do you get "people don't have a right to make money" out of a comment about passing off faux-science in order to bilk people out of money? Oh, I forgot, it's called "spreading the message".

Really, try harder with the trolling. You're letting your countrymen, some of the best windup-artists on the web, down in all kinds of ways.

Diana said...

Who gets to define low carb? It's a very low calorie diet, of which the majority of its tiny caloric allowance is carbohydrate. Of course the net carb gram is quite low - carbs are the largest macronutrient of very little. Zero percent of zero is zero. You are lying with statistics by saying it's low carb.

I agree that no one can live on it forever. It's a radical intervention for sick people. It's plant-based. Some vegans also boast of controlling their diabetes.

Good health in the New Year!

Stephen Ferguson said...

I know several raw food vegans that do a great job of controlling their diabetes on relatively high carb diets. But in general, like Stephan Guyenet says "when carbs are poison you're better off eating fat".

70g of carbohydrate a day is not a "statistic" it's an absolute number. Very few T2 diabetics would get hyperglycemic eat 70g a day, which is, by almost any reasonable definiton "low-carb". (It's also "low-fat" and "low-protein" and so by defintion "low-calorie".)

Who gets to define Low-Carb? For me Bernstein, Dahlqvist, Feinman, Volek, Phinney, Westman (et al) http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/9 Which is also pretty much consistent with the defintion that Jaminet and Harris come up with (<<150g a day).

Stephen Ferguson said...

Oh dear. More ad hominem attacks. I apologise sincerely. I got confused by the bit where you said:

"Wow, nice to see someone admit what it's all about! Not helping people lose weight or bettering their lives, but to provide Moore, Taubes and company with an income."

How very stupid of me. I presume passing off "faux science" for free is OK then? It's just the money thing you object to.

I see where Jimmy was stupid. I don't see where he was lying.



Lowcarb team member said...

Evelyn

I have nothing to sell. I am a man of rudimentary education, but I am not a fool. I truly believe and have proved to myself lowcarbing has been my salvation. I have lost count of the people I know who are in the same boat as myself. Carbs for me equates to dangerously high blood glucose numbers. Many type two medications have proved to be ineffective or highly dangerous and banned.

On 50 carbs per day and around 2500 calories per day I find it very easy to get what I need re nutrients and fulfilment. How anyone controls their diabetes or weight is cool with me, for myself, and my friends, we know no other way. I do not forget we are diabetics, and lack of control can lead to very serious and life threatening complications. Apart from around 5 of my 63 years, weight was never a problem for me. 32” waist and 150lbs max was my average before diabetes. Diabetes has effected four generations of my family, I hope we can change this. My five grandchildren are all lowcarbers, under medical supervision. I cannot believe a diet based on carbs/sugar is good for anyone.

Kind regards Eddie

Stephen Ferguson said...

There are lots of ways of controlling T2 diabetes. I doubt any are as consistently successful as LC though. Like Guyenet says (in relation to T2D) "When carbs are poison you're better off eating fat".

I don't think that low-carb is for everyone, but I do think that Taubes, Feinman, Phinney, Volek and especially Richard K Bernstein have done immeasurable good to the diabetic community. I owe them my toes and my non-bleeding eyeballs.

Stephen Ferguson said...

"This is bigger than the livelihoods of a few people. And if you think LCHF-Paleo = the new Hitler Youth sounds inflammatory, that is where this is headed if the supposedly upstanding members don't speak up and speak out for once and for all!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

C'mon. I've been to Auschwitz. This stuff isn't funny.

MissusF said...

News is getting around

http://www.the-sidebar.com/2012/12/two-prominent-physicianauthors-one-ny.html?spref=tw

Diana said...

"70g of carbohydrate a day is not a "statistic" it's an absolute number."

It's both. In this case, 70G carbohydrates = the majority of their caloric intake. Low carbs net, high carb percentagewise. That's why I said you lied with statistics.

I used to fool myself this way, too. I can't eat when I get the flu. I'd lose weight, and I'd say to myself, "It's because I didn't eat carbs." Nope. It's because I didn't eat calories. Duh!

I think you are either misquoting Guyenet, or using his quotation out of context. In any case, I have no idea what that quotation means. I do agree that some vegans can control their blood sugars - as can some carnivores.

Diana said...

"This stuff isn't funny."

Tell that to David Duke. He's a Holocaust-denier.

Do us a favor, instead of trying to sell LC dogma here, go to Nikoley's website and argue with the wretched woman who posted a link to a Holocaust-denier - and Nikoley didn't remove her comment.

If you think we are indulging in Godwin's law here, then scram. Aren't you above us? What are you doing here? Oh, defending your hero, Jimmy Moore, who wrote, to me: "He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me."

Which he then scrubbed from his site. He wrote that. We didn't make it up.

David Duke's Holocaust denial doesn't matter to Jimmy Moore.

Got that?

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