las

Welcome all seeking refuge from low carb dogma!

“To kill an error is as good a service as, and sometimes even better than, the establishing of a new truth or fact”
~ Charles Darwin (it's evolutionary baybeee!)

Monday, December 24, 2012

Ketosis and Burning Body Fat

Alternate Title:  Picture Worth More Than 1000 Words.  In speeches and interviews lately, Jimmy Moore has become fond of mentioning a few things (well, in addition to name dropping Robb Wolf)
  • Nutritional Ketosis as being somehow unique from run-of-the-mill, what, biochemical ketosis.  NK requires blood ketone testing as this is more accurate.  And,
  • Ketosis is evidence of burning body fat which he wasn't doing prior to this experiment.
  • Ketones and blood glucose being reciprocal
Tis true that measuring blood ketone levels is more accurate than urine ketones.  For one thing, urine levels vary widely with fluid intake, frequency of urination, etc.  Urine ketones are also "spill-over".  This is why nobody is ever busted for DUI on the basis of a urine test.  But just because urine levels are not necessarily representative of one's ketogenic production doesn't mean a person is, or is not, in NuttyK.  But let's presume that to be truly NuttyK one must also be a prick-er.  

On the right sidebar are Jimmy's NuttyK experiment results from Days 180-209.  Top to bottom we have AM glucose, AM ketones, PM ketones,  and body weight.  Do YOU notice any correlation?   Here's what I see:








  1. Looking at the top two graphs, there's no reciprocal correlation between glucose and ketones.  This should be no surprise as fasting glucose won't be below a certain level (unless your dead), and below a certain level of carb consumption is not related to nutritional state.  His blood glucose varied from 71 to 94 -- max reading is only 32% higher than the minimum (or 132% of min).  Ketones OTOH, varied from 0.4 to 5.3 -- that's a max reading of 1325% of minimum.  But there are stretches when ketones are relatively stable and lower where BG was up and down and vice versa.  No discernible correlation.
  2. Ketones in general are erratic, vary from morning to night (and presumably throughout the day). If anyone out there is considering measuring their blood ketones but isn't quite the prick-er Jimmy is, they might want to consider that this reading is going to be pretty useless to them.  For example, on the day Jimmy fell out of NuttyK (less than 0.5) with a 0.4 morning reading, he posted a respectable 2.0 in the evening.  Now imagine you are going to test every third morning, or imagine you don't have a bunch of money you want to literally throw away on testing so you only test once a week.  What Jimmy's n=1 is showing is that if you're going to be a prick-er, you need to do it frequently to get any sort of idea of whether or not you are NuttyK, and even in doing so, you pretty much are gathering useless information because ...
  3. There is NO correlation with weight loss.  Indeed in the first half of the month with pretty steady losses Jimmy's ketones, AM & PM, are on the low side, and when the trend started rising, Jimmy gained weight.  
Look folks, if you want to try this, don't bother with the blood meter unless you have money to waste. Even if that is the case, consider donating that money to a food bank this holiday season instead.  If you must,  pee on sticks.  It's what Jimmy did during his 2010 NuttyK eggsperiment.

March 16, 2010 Low Carb Menu:  Fat intake has been close to 85% by design with protein around 15% and minimal carbohydrate. Other than the calories being around 2,000 daily, this diet closely mimics the diet used to control seizures and prevent cancer. I suppose if I had issues losing weight eating this way, then I'd keep the same 84/15/1 ratio of fat to protein to carbohydrate and simply lower calories slightly. But this is working pretty well right now and I physically feel smaller than I did when I started this last Friday. That's a good sign and it's those kind of intangibles that I'll be using to measure my progress on this plan.
March 17, 2010 Low Carb Menu, One thing is for certain, my body is definitely back into ketosis and it's so awesome to see that happening on the Ketostix.  That's what eating a high-fat, adequate protein, low-carbohydrate diet will do for you!
{Note:  Yes, I know those links won't work, but this is what Jimmy wrote in his now scrubbed-from-the-internet menus blog about his eggfest in 2010.} 

I will revisit the eggfest after the holidays, there are some gems in that fiasco from which we learn a few things worth highlighting.  But for now I will remind folks that this was Jimmy's response to (then) hitting the 289 lb mark after LC Cruise 2010.  He lost over 20 lbs in the first two weeks, and almost 30 lbs in a month eating nothing but eggs, cheese and butter.  So, we've been here before folks, and if comments on Regina Wilshire's latest post on good old fashioned ketosis vs. NuttyK are any indication, the tide is a turning in regards to the spectrum of reactions (as opposed to his heavily censored comment section) to these whacky weight loss schemes.

And now, it's Christmas Eve day!  That means cooking for moi.  Only for 4, but it's a traditional feast so it takes a while ... well, pretty much all day!   I'll probably pop in here in between toiling and boiling and whatnot.   Merry Christmas to all who celebrate!

77 comments:

markgillespie said...

"Ketosis is evidence of burning body fat which he wasn't doing prior to this experiment"

Always amazes me how LCers always assume that ketones mean they are burning BODYfat, completely forgetting about the scads of dietary fat they are eating every day.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Nevermind the over-the-top consumption of coconut oil and MCT's. The reason these fats don't "promote body fat" is that the MCT's are almost obligatorily (is that a word?) metabolized by the liver. Too short for adipose uptake/storage, too long to feed into other pathways (GNG/GlyNG). We don't have much of a FA elongation apparatus at that chain length so they must be "burnt" and since that happens so fast, the bolus acetyl-CoA is converted to ketones. No body fat needed 8)

marksuave25 said...

Did Jimmy ever post his cholesterol numbers from eggfest? I was curious to see if his cholesterol went up a little or a lot or not at all. AT an earlier time,I wouldn't of blinked from a high cholesterol number, now I am a little worried. should we only worry about cholesterol or all the other risk factors? Have a merry Christmas!

pbo said...

Yup. I guess MCT's are useful in the opposite sense. They are great for providing you with an energy that your body won't store as fat. Hmm sounds similar to the fate of dietary carbs. I guess MCT is a low carb dieter's faux carb. Which once again brings me back to why not just eat carbs in the first place? Oh that's right, insulin is evil :)

Rad Warrier said...

First, Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to Evelyn and all others on this site!

"And now, it's Christmas Eve day! That means cooking for moi. Only for 4, but it's a traditional feast so it takes a while ... well, pretty much all day!"

The holidays have just begun and already we have been inundated with food. My son and wife are here for the holidays, we had guests for lunch the other day and will have more guests in the coming days, so my wife has been full time in the kitchen preparing delicious HCHF (high carb high fat) feasts. I think my leptin response is quite good :) because I not only had full-fledged satiety but a minor stomach discomfort that pushed me towards the zone of mild food revulsion. So much so that I began researching on fasting (intermittent and full-fledged.) Old history lessons came up in mind including the story of the mighty Chandragupta Maurya who could stand against Alexander, defeat his governor Seleucus and in return receive Diodora, the daughter of Seleucus in marriage! This mighty emperor became fed up with worldly life at the young age of 42 and decided to take a religious fast unto death, giving the throne to his son. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_Maurya . Food, unfortunately turned poisonous in the case of his wife Durdhara (Diodora ?) http://www.ensyklopedia.com/2011/10/15/durdhara-diodora-wife-of-chandragupta-maurya-mother-of-bindusara-340-bc-320-bc/.

Well, I have neither an empire to manage and nor am I fed up with food or worldly life yet, but plan to do a little fasting (missing a lunch or dinner) once the holidays are over :)

Regards,
Rad

Andrew Kim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Christmas is strongly associated with the spiking of glucose and is therefore responsible for more deaths than Josef Stalin

Gabriella Kadar said...

Well, hallelujah for the ketones information. For an otherwise healthy person (not any variant of diabetes) Ketostix are another waste of money. I don't read/watch any of this guy's, what's his name, Jimmy's productions. But based on the information to which you refer, this dude is potentially causing some serious damage to himself. From what I have learned, any major change is a stressor on the body and can result in catastrophe. Possibly he's still got enough adaptive reserve at this time to play around the way he is doing but eventually he'll exhaust it.

Lesley Scott said...

"And now, it's Christmas Eve day! That means cooking for moi." Me too! I'm the only dedicated cook in the house where I live so I walked the 1/2 mile to Albertsons today as I usually do, bought the feast for the house & the various rotating cast of characters that seems to drop by on such occasions (especially if there's home cooked food) & then humped it back, laden down with groceries. My giant sack of stuff plus puffer jacket I had on I'm sure made me look like some kind of hipster-grunge Santa Claus. Getting my Move-More out of the way before tomorrow's Eat-More. Cranberry sauce just made (with actual sugar) and cooling & turkey thawing. I won't be de-sugaring or de-fatting any recipes this time; instead, I figure I'll have a side of Grandma wisdom with my meal: moderation & enough of everything to not feel deprived. Happy holidays & thanks again for your dedicated blogging and ongoing insights. :)

Galina L. said...

From my little n=1 I can tell that the weight-loss is not the main benefit of ketosis (it does wonders for mental state and to the stability of energy level, it takes care of hot flashes), and not even always among benefits at all. However, when I first started ketosis, it indeed moved me from one of several weight-loss plateaus. Keeping own body surprised is the rule of a weight-loss game . Ketosis has benefits, it has a downside, so,it is a remedy which has to fit your purpose and to be used intelligently.

It indeed kills appetite, and it looks like Jemmy Moore needs it. Probably, ketosticks are useful for guys who can't figure out without such devise they eat too much meat. There is no way I would waist my money on it.

BigWhiskey said...

As a lay-reader, I detected a restrained but clearly a foreboding tone about ketosis in the entire blog post in Hyperlidpid on FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2009, entitled "A Brief Discussion of Ketosis", as the writer summarized in the last paragraph, " So I have some respect for the potential complications of ketosis, especially sudden onset. There are undoubtedly many plus sides, but nothing is ever completely problem free."

I thought I heard a Four-Alarm Bell about ketosis.........

Peace To Us All.

Jozef Varhaník said...

IMHO that guy is just plain stupid. The explanation can be found by searching Google for "Jimmy Moore". Why he ain't ignored already? Enough of him, please...

eulerandothers said...

Merry Xmas...
'God bless us, every one!' - Timothy Cratchit (A Christmas Carol)

Galina L. said...

pbo,
people who are in ketosis physically and mentally feel differently then when they eat a regular diet.

Diana said...

I checked out the train wreck of the site that is Livin' La Vida Low Carb. He gives 36 shiny new links to "LC, Paleo and Health blogs."

No. 14 is neo-Nazi David Duke. (No links, you'll just have to look it up yourself.)

Someone called him on it in the post. Moore responded that the nutritional info was "spot on."

I'm wondering whether there isn't something REALLY wrong with this guy. That is one seriously effed up answer.

Kade Storm said...

Well, Hitler was a 'spot-on' statistician, so I guess that means. . . Oh, crap. Reductio ad Hitlerum. I've failed hard.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Galina, I've been in deep ketosis for extended periods. I don't feel differently. Never had the LC flu either.

@pbo -- perhaps that explains the CO addiction {evil grin} of some of these folks. It's the closest thing to carbs for them!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

He posted a partial scan of them on his menus blog. His LDL was screamin'!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Thanks for the always interesting post! Sounds like you had a great time with family which is the most important part.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Atkins had folks pee on stix because that was a way to know if his diet was working. He peddled the notion that you were peeing out massive amounts of calories when in ketosis.

I am actually surprised at how resilient Jimmy's metabolism has been to his various schemes.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Ahh the hipster grunge Santa look! :D I had to do a power thaw on my turkey yesterday. Came out quite good and nobody got sick from bacteria ;)

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Judging from comments on Regina's site, many more are moving in that direction. Problem is, he's touring around lying to audiences about what has been going on, etc. So I think it's important to keep the light shining on stupidity!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I'll have to check that out!

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

It was a blessed one. Forgot to mention we had a bit of snow Christmas Eve. Just enough for a white Christmas w/o having to shovel :D

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

What I don't get is that he published two comments about the Duke linking, responded, then deleted it.

by Rian Yyrkah
You’re a fan of David Duke?

by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.

by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.

Jimmy Moore on Duke's radio show? Wowza

Primal Woman said...

This is what Jimmy ate for his Christmas dinner.

2 oz Ham, sliced, extra lean 60.7
2 large Egg, whole, cooked, hard-boiled 155
2 tbsp Salad dressing, mayonnaise type, regular, with salt 114.7
1 cup (1" pieces) Cauliflower, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 28.5
3 oz Cream, fluid, heavy whipping 293.4
5 oz Butter, salted 1016.3
2 oz Cheese, cream 193.9
4 oz Chicken, broilers or fryers, breast, meat only, cooked, rotisserie, original seasoning 167.8

Energy: 2030 calories

Protein 13% 65g
Fat 84% 192g
Carbs 4% 18g

That was in ONE meal and is based on estimates from the picture of his plate. Today he says he ate too much protein. He can't wrap his head around almost a stick of butter being problematic.

Kade Storm said...

Doesn't matter to him? Does this man have even a modicum of social awareness? Yeah, because it's fine to hang out with someone who is part of a much more serious and socially maligning movement so long as he agrees with one's own views of something so--relatively speaking--trivial as nutrition. There is a time and a place to judge someone by the kind of company they keep.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

If he's eating like this once a day, then he'll continue losing weight for a bit. But that kind of fat bolus? {{shudder}} Meanwhile he said he's eating less fat and more veggies these days. If that's less fat ...

Diana said...

Sharp eye, Carbsane! I put my comment on, took a screen shot, when it was still in the moderation queue. Next time I went back to see if he had the guts to post it, both my and Ryan's questions were deleted. Oddly, on the main page there is still a reference at the bottom of the post to 16 comments, but when you click on the comments it says, 12 comments.

Check his blog and you'll see what I mean.

@Kade - I guess he doesn't have "even a modicum of social awareness." And I don't think neo-Nazism is a "socially maligning movement" they are out and out exterminationists who admire Hitler, despise the West for it's "decadent liberalism" in their words.

I'm not going to pollute Evelyn's website with links. Do a little googling and you'll see what I mean. And yes, judging Jimmy by this is not guilt by association. Some things are beyond the pale.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Is there a Butterholics Anonymous chapter in Spartanburg?

Galina L. said...

Evelyn,
May be feeling no mental or mood difference while in ketosis is the manifestation of your good emotional health. I suspected long time ago that many LCarbers are self-selected group of people who feel much better in ketogenic state, thous who could relate to Emily Dean's "Your brain in ketosis" post. Ketosis is a tool to fix things.
I didn't have any keto-flue as well, just better energy and calmer, more relaxed mood right away.

Lesley Scott said...

"nobody got sick from bacteria" I am glad you didn't poison any of your dinner guests. I do hate it so when that happens. :)

Kade Storm said...

I know, Diana. I am actually quite an opinionated individual on this topic and I intentionally made a very conservative statement so as to avoid polluting the blog. I have been aware of this guy since his speech in Syria, and the Jimmy Moore reference reignited the interest.

Alex said...

I tried going VLC a couple times, and I just couldn't get past the brain-splitting headaches. I was trying to lose the last 12 pounds, and I thought all I needed was the right magical macronutrient ratio. After following the suggestion to keep a food diary for a week, I discovered that my ad libitum eating habits had me eating 200-300 calories per day more than I should, and 10 weeks of calorie counting on fitday.com took the weight right off, at a rate of 1-2 pounds per week. My diet varied, but it was generally 10-20% protein and 50-60% fat, with carbs restricted by not eating starch... not truly low-carb, but low enough in carbs to prevent the gnawing hunger that eating starch causes.

Diana said...

Kade, Gotcha. It's not an easy subject to talk about, esp. in this form, on the Internet, which is rather like a series of emails.

I won't elaborate because I think you and I are on the same page and it is a diversion from the subject matter of this blog - but I am not letting Jimmy off the hook on this one. I am going to denounce him in every forum I can. This is indicative of Jimmy's entire "schtick" - which is self-aggrandizement, attention-seeking and a desperate search for validation. Not weight loss or helping the obese.

log said...

That's unbelievable that Jimmy would not only link to Neo-Nazi David Duke's blog, but also appear on his radio show. I realize there is a right wing slant to a lot of low carb and paleo blogs, but this is truly a new low.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Jimmy Moore did go on Duke's radio show :( http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=9495

He refers to him as Dr. David Duke. The man has a PhD from some private Ukrainian university, this thesis was: "Zionism as a Form of Ethnic Supremacism."

http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_america_updates/individuals/david_duke/david_duke_20051103.htm

Nutrition does not transcend beliefs. We all know there's a line there, and in my view Jimmy has crossed it. Why? Why would you go on David Duke's radio program?

Diana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Diana said...

I learned about the above thread after I had posted to your site. I've challenged him there, and predictably, he has his numbskull dittoheads.

I have to laugh at "Dr." Duke's thesis!!! Do you think this Ukrainian university is one of the world's top 100?

I am going to write to Feinman and Taubes about this. I wonder if they think that "Dr." Duke is OK, as long as he agrees that sat fat is good and carbs are bad, it's OK to gas people to death, and then lie about it afterwards.

Timthetaco said...

Okay then. I had a reply typed out about my experience with the white nationalist community and the similarities between them and the low carb community but lost it. Either way, I think it's beyond hilarious that aw-shucks, nice-guy Jimmy Moore is the one link between the two.

Although I don't think the white nationalist community will be adopting an anti-wheat or paleo stance any time soon, since their ideology of white superiority depends entirely on the agricultural achievements of Europeans. Grok is nothing but a savage mud to them.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Ukraine is a hotbed of antisemitism, BTW. I always found that odd because both the Jews and the Ukes were victims of genocide at the hands of Stalin. (http://www.ukemonde.com/genocide/margolisholocaust.html) Near as I can figure, the Ukrainians seem bothered by the fact that the Jews have had this recognized, but it is virtually unknown about the Ukes. It is to the point where there are lots of Holocaust deniers in Ukraine. I'm not sure which descendants this reporter talked to, however, in the US & Canada. The second and third generation communities are quite tight knit and preserve the culture. They all know about this.

Galina L. said...

VLC is not the perfect diet for everyone, and self-experimentation is the only way to figure out you own best ratio.
It took me several really bad headaches to be adopted to fast for more than 4 hours during daytime.

Galina L. said...

Ukraine and Russia are horrible places when it comes to nationalism, chauvinism, tolerance to other nations, religions ans sexual orientation. Jewish pogroms even before revolution in Kiev were legendary, Russian Orthodox church historically has been very antisemitic, so such set of mind was firmly present in Easter European societies way before Hitler. There are nowadays occurrences in Moscow in St.Petersburg when skinhead mobs attack foreigners with black skin. Many people in Russia were outraged because US choose Barack Obama.

I didn't try to investigate the pattern, just from my brief impression it seems to me that a LC message more often comes from conservative and Republican side(interview with Dr.Davis on Fox), while PBS and NPR are more anty-fat and vegetarian. I am not a Fox fan, more PBS, but I am not with them when it comes to nutrition. I recently was participating in the exchange of opinions about our gun situation on another nutrition blog I frequent. We found out we were all over the place when it concerns politic, while having similar opinion about nutrition.

@Timphetako,
"white nationalist community and the similarities between them and the low carb community" - Wow! What a remark! I feel like I wish I could slam the door. Am I suppose to have similarities with KKK while eating a LC diet?

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Sorry about the comment loss Tim.

@Galina, I think Wheat Belly has been all over the various press outlets, left, right and in between. I'm not sure there's a higher prevalence of left or right in vegan and paleo respectively, just perhaps a few outspoken people. I was not aware, for example, that Robb Wolf posted a lot about Ron Paul. And of course there's the obvious social commenator.

Christopher said...

I know... Can't believe a bigger deal isn't being made about it. Associating with the likes of Heidi Diaz is small potatoes compared to this.

Kade Storm said...

I think that any alternative dietary movement will attract political extremists. I have met Neo Nazis who are pro-vegetarianism and the exact opposite. Hell, I have met Neo Nazis who stumble over their own anti-socialist lines by insisting that they're anti-socialist, but that they endorse welfare for the 'locals'. It really is all over the place and as I commented on another blog, this should not implicate low-carb and plaeo or vegetarianism or veganism or whatever; these re just nutritional paths and nothing to wage crusades over. There's certainly moderate and civic minded people representing on many of these alternative fronts as well and there's no reason why there shouldn't be such individuals. It's just that when you have alternative movements, they often also attract a lot of politically outspoken 'rebels' who join in for all the wrong reasons and are often the loudest voice in the community, which can foster the wrong impression for the onlookers.


The haphazard history of antisemitism does create a lot of confusion. One would certainly expect cultures that have suffered persecution alongside those of Jewish ancestry to be a bit more sympathetic. Hell, one would expect those 'impressed' Syrians who David Duke patronised many years back, to take pause and consider his in-bred racially separatistic outlook and what that really means to the people of a region that is in fact, multi ethnic, regardless of religion. This all goes back to the political morass that spawned from the conflict of monotheism back in the dark ages and has been reignited by more political galvanisation in recent times. Of course, that's a whole lexicon of historical babble not suitable for a comments section.

Jozef Varhaník said...

A laser would be better in this situation. :) I'm sorry if I sound too offensive, but somehow my bullshit detector went bonkers after 5 minutes spent on Moore's site and that was 3 years ago when I was "discovering paleo" and too was sucked in by stuff like keto magic even though I wasn't practicing it. My point is he was, he is and always will be a guy interested in making cash, that's it. Everything is a tool to him, including his own health, reputation, etc. Not seeing through this charade is just a mark of dull thinking in my opinion. He got himself stuck in such a ridiculous self-fueling, backwards, no-way-out situation that in order for him to "redeem himself" he would have to reinvent himself again and finally just say sorry, I was an ass and made a bunch of huge mistakes. But no, an indoctrinatrix dogmatic mind is incapable of that and therefore it just won't happen. Rant over, and watch out for mr. Moore. :D

Diana said...

Quickie reply:

1. What Kade said.

2. I do not, for the record, think that Jimmy is an anti-Semite or racist. Quite the opposite in fact. I remember noticing that he went to a high school reunion and put up some pics of him with black former schoolmates. Jimmy being phony? I don't think so. A true racist, Southern nationalist, would never do that. I just think he's a fanatic and a damn fool when it comes to "nutrition." He has an eating disorder, and his thought on eating are utterly disordered.

3. @Galina, notwithstanding what Kade Storm said, there is a strain of LC that is definitely right wing. I would call them pseudo-conservative. (Long story short, I am a conservative, and these people embarrass me.) A better word for them would be "reactionary." (Eades is a good example of this.) I know of several people, all guys, all reactionaries, who became low carb dogmatists because they had to lose a few, adopted some LC principles, lost the weight, and lost whatever marbles they had. Their basic stance is that the female-dominated, effeminate, castrating nutritional establishment demonized fats and meat because that's what females and shemales do to red-blooded American guys like them. Sigh.

4. And then there's the deep green people, like the bonkers Lierre Keith, who used to be a vegan, and who is now a carnivore. These guys are beyond batshit.

I guess that wasn't so short after all. Upshot: whole lotta crazy out there in the weight loss/nutrition world!!

anotherdeadletter said...

@diana

Reactionary is a good word. A fairly large portion of my friends in the Survivalist communities are LCers (yes, the irony is lost on them). They do so not really because of any dietary principle, but more or less because the USDA advocates grains. Therefore, grains are evil.

Galina L. said...

Choosing diet that fits any political agenda was never among my motives, and I don't think it could be a valid reason.It is one thing to avoid grains because body and brain feel better,but do it because grains are "evil"- another. However, it is a common for many religions to require particular diet limitations and practices.

Diana, I don't know for sure am I conservative or liberal, I agree and disagree with some issues on both sides. Probably, I support mostly liberal issues, but not all.

Diana said...

@Galina, maybe it didn't come thru properly but I was agreeing with this: "I didn't try to investigate the pattern, just from my brief impression it seems to me that a LC message more often comes from conservative and Republican side(interview with Dr.Davis on Fox), while PBS and NPR are more anty-fat and vegetarian."

On the whole, I have found this to be the case.

Then (per Kade Storm) you get your whacko extremists, and they meet there in whackoland, right and left. I think that the "deep green" fanatics and "Dr." David Duke agree on more than they disagree.

Harry's Acolyte said...

http://paleodrama.tumblr.com/post/38995544116/doesnt-matter-if-you-are-a-neo-nazi-as-long-as-you

Galina L. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Galina L. said...

@Diana,
I feel like I should investigate on my own who is that David Duke. So far it looks like I will find nothing good.

I remember a while ago(when I was watching his show) O'Raily talking about eating a lot of stakes, some other prominent figures on Fox eating LC, while on PBS every show about eating healthy, improving memory, curing diabetes includes low fat,minimal meat,fruits/veggies with Dr. Neil Bernard and Dr.Joel Fuhrman.

Diana said...

Jimmy has removed the link & scrubbed his website. But he can't unsay what he said on the radio show. Nor has he apologized for linking to him, and initially defending his decision.

river rance said...

Jimbo Moore's recent interaction with David Duke, reveals a couple interesting points. One, by linking to DD, and DD returning the favor, lots of visits from Duke's site to Moore's creates a ton of? You guessed it…."unique visitors" and because they are new, lots of page views, etc., so it boosts his site…good for revenue producing.
But the irony is "the great champion" against Haters gonna Hate, that being Jimbo…is using one of my generations greatest and most disgusting "haters" to further his own $$machine, shame on you Moore…if anyone, ya listening Wolf.Eades.Naughton, and other Moore lovers?This is pretty good evidence that Moore is completely off the rails. IMHO

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I'm not done with this one!

And Amy Dungan (who bought the Haters tees) listen up too!

If anyone wants to listen to the mp3 w/o pinging Duke, I've put it on my Google drive where it shall remain unless and until asked to remove it by none other than Duke himself. Jimmy & KKK Duke

Here are 4 minutes of Jimmy chatting up politics/media/conspiracy stuff with "Doctor" Duke. KKK Wizard and LC Wizard just innocently talking nutrition.

His responses on FB, attempts to scrub the record, etc. All typical Jimmy. It shall be documented thoroughly.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

I'm on it Harry! This is over the top and should not be glossed over, swept under the rug, minimized or whatever cliche you want to use.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

Suggestion to readers: If you want to listen to Duke & Moore, it is less revolting at higher speed when they sound like the Chipmunks. I did it in Audacity (free) or if you have any other program that allows for it, highly recommended. No offense to chipmunks.

river rance said...

Jimmy Moore was just "jobbed" by David Duke. Shame on anyone(esp. his "paleo peeps") defending either of these two…it tells me Moore is not capable of making thoughtful decisions and therefore all of his "pontificating" (his words) is just worthless. This thread not the real place for a Duke discussion but a link for those who don't know him then or now from the Souther Poverty Law Center web site…if it Ok with you Evelyn? http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/david-duke

Galina L. said...

OMG,
Just checked Duke's webpage,and I still can't believe my eyes! After living in Russia, the US environment looks for me like completely non-antisemitic. Everybody talks about Judea-Christian values like there is no difference nowadays which church or synagog to attend, just worship somewhere and not be an atheist.
I am afraid now to find out there are a human-flesh-eating groups somewhere here. It may be somebodies ancestral tradition of a healthy eating as well. It could pass JM criteria of food being enough LC.

an3drew said...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-C8BoH6Ntffc/UNrrFHvhFfI/AAAAAAAAARs/3mZpVDwdcxs/s1600/davidduekomg.jpg

fiero-flash said...

Evelyn,

As much as you are accused of unfairly bashing Jimmy, I think you are being far too reserved on this issue. This should be a top-line item on your front page, a standalone post, not a discussion buried in the comments of a "Ketosis and Burning Body Fat" post. People should know this about Jimmy.

I previously told you that I hadn't personally seen enough evidence that Jimmy Moore wasn't a nice guy. I said it was possible, but from what I knew so was him being a nice guy with some misguided opinions.

I retract that now. No nice guy would ever associate with David Duke. And Jimmy didn't just stumble across a health story on Duke's site and link to it without realizing what it was. He actually went on the guy's podcast show. Though he linked to the nutrition area of Duke's blog, other topics listed in large letters at the top, such as "Jewish Extremism", give a hint as to what kind of bile is just a few clicks away.

How did Jimmy link up with David Duke in the first place? He's not saying. Was he a fan of Duke's other writing and saw he was also low-carb, and he got in touch with him? Or was Duke a fan of Jimmy's, and he contacted Jimmy, and Jimmy skimmed Duke's site and saw nothing objectionable?

Or, worse, did Jimmy think he could help a bit in mainstreaming David Duke? That is often a tactic these types use. Try to seem nonthreatening and interesting on most topics, then try to slip in the extreme stuff after people have been conditioned to think of them as a normal, fun, reasonable person.

I am not only disgusted by Jimmy actually doing this, but also by him attempting to ride it out. He first debated it in comments, then he deleted those comments but left the link. Then in Twitter conversations he acted puzzled about what the controversy was, suggested people questioning him had an agenda. Then he finally quietly replaced the link without saying anything. These actions made it clear that he knew all along what Duke stood for and was fine with it until he realized it could hurt his reputation.

Has anybody listened to the show (I know, repulsive idea)? I wonder if Duke sticks to diet issues or if he engages Jimmy in his favorite topics.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

OK by me!

Many internationals don't know of Duke ... he's a bit of a has been here in US too. But that nobody really made a peep for over two weeks from FB or his forum? Shame!

fiero-flash said...

Sorry, I thought I had caught up on all the comments, but I missed some of the newer ones that were nested. Good to hear that you're on the case and are going to be covering it more. And thanks for making the show available to those of us that don't want to give Duke extra hits.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

What was is what was. Let's see what comes of it. Duke is very far from mainstream American thinking and even conservative political thinking. Apparently he's not far from Jimmy's thinking OR Jimmy is blinded by $$.

Evelyn aka CarbSane said...

It will be headlining a new venture for me. In fact I'm rushing it out the door hopefully by Sunday because this is THAT IMPORTANT.

fiero-flash said...

Maybe in the meantime you could do a "Jimmy Moore / David Duke Open Thread" post here with a brief summary of what happened, just so people know what's going on and have a more fitting place to comment before you do the big launch on Sunday?

I'm guessing many of your regular readers are missing this entirely because it's buried in a thread about ketosis.

Or not. It's your blog. ;-)

fiero-flash said...

@river rance:

You said: "But the irony is 'the great champion' against Haters gonna Hate, that being Jimbo…is using one of my generations greatest and most disgusting "haters" to further his own $$machine, shame on you Moore…"

The shirts said "Haters Make Me FAMOUS!" Perhaps we just misinterpreted what he meant by that. Perhaps it was a coy reference to his upcoming appearance on the David Duke show.

Evelyn in the past has suggested Jimmy get a marketing job. Honestly, could anyone have a better resume than someone who was morbidly obese for years while being accepted as a health expert by so many? Selling ice to eskimos seems simple compared to that feat.

Euclid Flomm said...

To my knowledge, Jimmy Moore has yet to renounce or even distance himself from David Duke's ideology. Instead, he has censored comments on his blog and is apparently trying to bury the matter. Associating with Duke in any way is an express ticket to pariah-ville -- and properly so.

Moore needs to be shunned. This isn't debatable. Associating with America's most prominent white supremacist/Nazi is the end of anyone's reputation. Moore is finished and so is anyone who gets next to him after this.

I sincerely hope that the medical experts who have participated in Moore's interviews will now shun him once they are made aware of this matter.

This is important and I look forward to Evelyn's item. I encourage her to explain the sequence of events so that the medical experts and the public can understand what has taken place.

Sue Staltari said...

Moore to be shunned by the paleo gurus we'll see!!

Lighthouse keeper said...

It will be interesting to see if any of his near future guests retract from his podcasts, he has some upcoming encore presentations but most likely recorded in the last week or so. Harking back a little to the discussion regarding left/ right political orientation as far as the paleo versus vegan diet is concerned, one would stake one's life savings on the fact that the percentage of vegans/vegetarians is much, much higher in the occupy wall street movement than in NRA or tea party.

Lowcarb team member said...

In my opinion it was a mistake, a big mistake. Evelyn Kocur knows this and states on her blog “For the record, I don't believe Jimmy is a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or any of that. I don't think he was doing any recruiting or anything like that by going on Duke's show or linking to his blog” so why all the excitement and Evelyn’s wet dream ? Because she is a failure. She can’t control her weight or her mouth. She stands for nothing, very much like my nemesis Carbophile. Jimmy is liked because he is a human being that talks openly about his success and failures. He is far from perfect, just like the rest of us. Our money is on Jimmy, he is an open and honest guy. What you see is what you get ! What is Evelyn ? Why is she dedicating her life to the rubbishing of Jimmy and others ? Why can’t she get to a healthy weight ? That’s easy, lack of self discipline and she eats too much ! She can certainly talk the talk, but she can’t walk the walk !

Eddie

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