Ketosis and Burning Body Fat
Alternate Title: Picture Worth More Than 1000 Words. In speeches and interviews lately, Jimmy Moore has become fond of mentioning a few things (well, in addition to name dropping Robb Wolf)
- Nutritional Ketosis as being somehow unique from run-of-the-mill, what, biochemical ketosis. NK requires blood ketone testing as this is more accurate. And,
- Ketosis is evidence of burning body fat which he wasn't doing prior to this experiment.
- Ketones and blood glucose being reciprocal
Tis true that measuring blood ketone levels is more accurate than urine ketones. For one thing, urine levels vary widely with fluid intake, frequency of urination, etc. Urine ketones are also "spill-over". This is why nobody is ever busted for DUI on the basis of a urine test. But just because urine levels are not necessarily representative of one's ketogenic production doesn't mean a person is, or is not, in NuttyK. But let's presume that to be truly NuttyK one must also be a prick-er.
On the right sidebar are Jimmy's NuttyK experiment results from Days 180-209. Top to bottom we have AM glucose, AM ketones, PM ketones, and body weight. Do YOU notice any correlation? Here's what I see:
- Looking at the top two graphs, there's no reciprocal correlation between glucose and ketones. This should be no surprise as fasting glucose won't be below a certain level (unless your dead), and below a certain level of carb consumption is not related to nutritional state. His blood glucose varied from 71 to 94 -- max reading is only 32% higher than the minimum (or 132% of min). Ketones OTOH, varied from 0.4 to 5.3 -- that's a max reading of 1325% of minimum. But there are stretches when ketones are relatively stable and lower where BG was up and down and vice versa. No discernible correlation.
- Ketones in general are erratic, vary from morning to night (and presumably throughout the day). If anyone out there is considering measuring their blood ketones but isn't quite the prick-er Jimmy is, they might want to consider that this reading is going to be pretty useless to them. For example, on the day Jimmy fell out of NuttyK (less than 0.5) with a 0.4 morning reading, he posted a respectable 2.0 in the evening. Now imagine you are going to test every third morning, or imagine you don't have a bunch of money you want to literally throw away on testing so you only test once a week. What Jimmy's n=1 is showing is that if you're going to be a prick-er, you need to do it frequently to get any sort of idea of whether or not you are NuttyK, and even in doing so, you pretty much are gathering useless information because ...
- There is NO correlation with weight loss. Indeed in the first half of the month with pretty steady losses Jimmy's ketones, AM & PM, are on the low side, and when the trend started rising, Jimmy gained weight.
Look folks, if you want to try this, don't bother with the blood meter unless you have money to waste. Even if that is the case, consider donating that money to a food bank this holiday season instead. If you must, pee on sticks. It's what Jimmy did during his 2010 NuttyK eggsperiment.
I will revisit the eggfest after the holidays, there are some gems in that fiasco from which we learn a few things worth highlighting. But for now I will remind folks that this was Jimmy's response to (then) hitting the 289 lb mark after LC Cruise 2010. He lost over 20 lbs in the first two weeks, and almost 30 lbs in a month eating nothing but eggs, cheese and butter. So, we've been here before folks, and if comments on Regina Wilshire's latest post on good old fashioned ketosis vs. NuttyK are any indication, the tide is a turning in regards to the spectrum of reactions (as opposed to his heavily censored comment section) to these whacky weight loss schemes.
And now, it's Christmas Eve day! That means cooking for moi. Only for 4, but it's a traditional feast so it takes a while ... well, pretty much all day! I'll probably pop in here in between toiling and boiling and whatnot. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate!
March 16, 2010 Low Carb Menu: Fat intake has been close to 85% by design with protein around 15% and minimal carbohydrate. Other than the calories being around 2,000 daily, this diet closely mimics the diet used to control seizures and prevent cancer. I suppose if I had issues losing weight eating this way, then I'd keep the same 84/15/1 ratio of fat to protein to carbohydrate and simply lower calories slightly. But this is working pretty well right now and I physically feel smaller than I did when I started this last Friday. That's a good sign and it's those kind of intangibles that I'll be using to measure my progress on this plan.
March 17, 2010 Low Carb Menu, One thing is for certain, my body is definitely back into ketosis and it's so awesome to see that happening on the Ketostix. That's what eating a high-fat, adequate protein, low-carbohydrate diet will do for you!
{Note: Yes, I know those links won't work, but this is what Jimmy wrote in his now scrubbed-from-the-internet menus blog about his eggfest in 2010.}
I will revisit the eggfest after the holidays, there are some gems in that fiasco from which we learn a few things worth highlighting. But for now I will remind folks that this was Jimmy's response to (then) hitting the 289 lb mark after LC Cruise 2010. He lost over 20 lbs in the first two weeks, and almost 30 lbs in a month eating nothing but eggs, cheese and butter. So, we've been here before folks, and if comments on Regina Wilshire's latest post on good old fashioned ketosis vs. NuttyK are any indication, the tide is a turning in regards to the spectrum of reactions (as opposed to his heavily censored comment section) to these whacky weight loss schemes.
And now, it's Christmas Eve day! That means cooking for moi. Only for 4, but it's a traditional feast so it takes a while ... well, pretty much all day! I'll probably pop in here in between toiling and boiling and whatnot. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate!
Comments
Always amazes me how LCers always assume that ketones mean they are burning BODYfat, completely forgetting about the scads of dietary fat they are eating every day.
"And now, it's Christmas Eve day! That means cooking for moi. Only for 4, but it's a traditional feast so it takes a while ... well, pretty much all day!"
The holidays have just begun and already we have been inundated with food. My son and wife are here for the holidays, we had guests for lunch the other day and will have more guests in the coming days, so my wife has been full time in the kitchen preparing delicious HCHF (high carb high fat) feasts. I think my leptin response is quite good :) because I not only had full-fledged satiety but a minor stomach discomfort that pushed me towards the zone of mild food revulsion. So much so that I began researching on fasting (intermittent and full-fledged.) Old history lessons came up in mind including the story of the mighty Chandragupta Maurya who could stand against Alexander, defeat his governor Seleucus and in return receive Diodora, the daughter of Seleucus in marriage! This mighty emperor became fed up with worldly life at the young age of 42 and decided to take a religious fast unto death, giving the throne to his son. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_Maurya . Food, unfortunately turned poisonous in the case of his wife Durdhara (Diodora ?) http://www.ensyklopedia.com/2011/10/15/durdhara-diodora-wife-of-chandragupta-maurya-mother-of-bindusara-340-bc-320-bc/.
Well, I have neither an empire to manage and nor am I fed up with food or worldly life yet, but plan to do a little fasting (missing a lunch or dinner) once the holidays are over :)
Regards,
Rad
It indeed kills appetite, and it looks like Jemmy Moore needs it. Probably, ketosticks are useful for guys who can't figure out without such devise they eat too much meat. There is no way I would waist my money on it.
I thought I heard a Four-Alarm Bell about ketosis.........
Peace To Us All.
'God bless us, every one!' - Timothy Cratchit (A Christmas Carol)
people who are in ketosis physically and mentally feel differently then when they eat a regular diet.
No. 14 is neo-Nazi David Duke. (No links, you'll just have to look it up yourself.)
Someone called him on it in the post. Moore responded that the nutritional info was "spot on."
I'm wondering whether there isn't something REALLY wrong with this guy. That is one seriously effed up answer.
@pbo -- perhaps that explains the CO addiction {evil grin} of some of these folks. It's the closest thing to carbs for them!
I am actually surprised at how resilient Jimmy's metabolism has been to his various schemes.
by Rian Yyrkah
You’re a fan of David Duke?
by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.
by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?
by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.
Jimmy Moore on Duke's radio show? Wowza
2 oz Ham, sliced, extra lean 60.7
2 large Egg, whole, cooked, hard-boiled 155
2 tbsp Salad dressing, mayonnaise type, regular, with salt 114.7
1 cup (1" pieces) Cauliflower, cooked, boiled, drained, without salt 28.5
3 oz Cream, fluid, heavy whipping 293.4
5 oz Butter, salted 1016.3
2 oz Cheese, cream 193.9
4 oz Chicken, broilers or fryers, breast, meat only, cooked, rotisserie, original seasoning 167.8
Energy: 2030 calories
Protein 13% 65g
Fat 84% 192g
Carbs 4% 18g
That was in ONE meal and is based on estimates from the picture of his plate. Today he says he ate too much protein. He can't wrap his head around almost a stick of butter being problematic.
Check his blog and you'll see what I mean.
@Kade - I guess he doesn't have "even a modicum of social awareness." And I don't think neo-Nazism is a "socially maligning movement" they are out and out exterminationists who admire Hitler, despise the West for it's "decadent liberalism" in their words.
I'm not going to pollute Evelyn's website with links. Do a little googling and you'll see what I mean. And yes, judging Jimmy by this is not guilt by association. Some things are beyond the pale.
May be feeling no mental or mood difference while in ketosis is the manifestation of your good emotional health. I suspected long time ago that many LCarbers are self-selected group of people who feel much better in ketogenic state, thous who could relate to Emily Dean's "Your brain in ketosis" post. Ketosis is a tool to fix things.
I didn't have any keto-flue as well, just better energy and calmer, more relaxed mood right away.
I won't elaborate because I think you and I are on the same page and it is a diversion from the subject matter of this blog - but I am not letting Jimmy off the hook on this one. I am going to denounce him in every forum I can. This is indicative of Jimmy's entire "schtick" - which is self-aggrandizement, attention-seeking and a desperate search for validation. Not weight loss or helping the obese.
He refers to him as Dr. David Duke. The man has a PhD from some private Ukrainian university, this thesis was: "Zionism as a Form of Ethnic Supremacism."
http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_america_updates/individuals/david_duke/david_duke_20051103.htm
Nutrition does not transcend beliefs. We all know there's a line there, and in my view Jimmy has crossed it. Why? Why would you go on David Duke's radio program?
I have to laugh at "Dr." Duke's thesis!!! Do you think this Ukrainian university is one of the world's top 100?
I am going to write to Feinman and Taubes about this. I wonder if they think that "Dr." Duke is OK, as long as he agrees that sat fat is good and carbs are bad, it's OK to gas people to death, and then lie about it afterwards.
Although I don't think the white nationalist community will be adopting an anti-wheat or paleo stance any time soon, since their ideology of white superiority depends entirely on the agricultural achievements of Europeans. Grok is nothing but a savage mud to them.
It took me several really bad headaches to be adopted to fast for more than 4 hours during daytime.
I didn't try to investigate the pattern, just from my brief impression it seems to me that a LC message more often comes from conservative and Republican side(interview with Dr.Davis on Fox), while PBS and NPR are more anty-fat and vegetarian. I am not a Fox fan, more PBS, but I am not with them when it comes to nutrition. I recently was participating in the exchange of opinions about our gun situation on another nutrition blog I frequent. We found out we were all over the place when it concerns politic, while having similar opinion about nutrition.
@Timphetako,
"white nationalist community and the similarities between them and the low carb community" - Wow! What a remark! I feel like I wish I could slam the door. Am I suppose to have similarities with KKK while eating a LC diet?
@Galina, I think Wheat Belly has been all over the various press outlets, left, right and in between. I'm not sure there's a higher prevalence of left or right in vegan and paleo respectively, just perhaps a few outspoken people. I was not aware, for example, that Robb Wolf posted a lot about Ron Paul. And of course there's the obvious social commenator.
The haphazard history of antisemitism does create a lot of confusion. One would certainly expect cultures that have suffered persecution alongside those of Jewish ancestry to be a bit more sympathetic. Hell, one would expect those 'impressed' Syrians who David Duke patronised many years back, to take pause and consider his in-bred racially separatistic outlook and what that really means to the people of a region that is in fact, multi ethnic, regardless of religion. This all goes back to the political morass that spawned from the conflict of monotheism back in the dark ages and has been reignited by more political galvanisation in recent times. Of course, that's a whole lexicon of historical babble not suitable for a comments section.
1. What Kade said.
2. I do not, for the record, think that Jimmy is an anti-Semite or racist. Quite the opposite in fact. I remember noticing that he went to a high school reunion and put up some pics of him with black former schoolmates. Jimmy being phony? I don't think so. A true racist, Southern nationalist, would never do that. I just think he's a fanatic and a damn fool when it comes to "nutrition." He has an eating disorder, and his thought on eating are utterly disordered.
3. @Galina, notwithstanding what Kade Storm said, there is a strain of LC that is definitely right wing. I would call them pseudo-conservative. (Long story short, I am a conservative, and these people embarrass me.) A better word for them would be "reactionary." (Eades is a good example of this.) I know of several people, all guys, all reactionaries, who became low carb dogmatists because they had to lose a few, adopted some LC principles, lost the weight, and lost whatever marbles they had. Their basic stance is that the female-dominated, effeminate, castrating nutritional establishment demonized fats and meat because that's what females and shemales do to red-blooded American guys like them. Sigh.
4. And then there's the deep green people, like the bonkers Lierre Keith, who used to be a vegan, and who is now a carnivore. These guys are beyond batshit.
I guess that wasn't so short after all. Upshot: whole lotta crazy out there in the weight loss/nutrition world!!
Reactionary is a good word. A fairly large portion of my friends in the Survivalist communities are LCers (yes, the irony is lost on them). They do so not really because of any dietary principle, but more or less because the USDA advocates grains. Therefore, grains are evil.
Diana, I don't know for sure am I conservative or liberal, I agree and disagree with some issues on both sides. Probably, I support mostly liberal issues, but not all.
On the whole, I have found this to be the case.
Then (per Kade Storm) you get your whacko extremists, and they meet there in whackoland, right and left. I think that the "deep green" fanatics and "Dr." David Duke agree on more than they disagree.
I feel like I should investigate on my own who is that David Duke. So far it looks like I will find nothing good.
I remember a while ago(when I was watching his show) O'Raily talking about eating a lot of stakes, some other prominent figures on Fox eating LC, while on PBS every show about eating healthy, improving memory, curing diabetes includes low fat,minimal meat,fruits/veggies with Dr. Neil Bernard and Dr.Joel Fuhrman.
But the irony is "the great champion" against Haters gonna Hate, that being Jimbo…is using one of my generations greatest and most disgusting "haters" to further his own $$machine, shame on you Moore…if anyone, ya listening Wolf.Eades.Naughton, and other Moore lovers?This is pretty good evidence that Moore is completely off the rails. IMHO
And Amy Dungan (who bought the Haters tees) listen up too!
If anyone wants to listen to the mp3 w/o pinging Duke, I've put it on my Google drive where it shall remain unless and until asked to remove it by none other than Duke himself. Jimmy & KKK Duke
Here are 4 minutes of Jimmy chatting up politics/media/conspiracy stuff with "Doctor" Duke. KKK Wizard and LC Wizard just innocently talking nutrition.
His responses on FB, attempts to scrub the record, etc. All typical Jimmy. It shall be documented thoroughly.
Just checked Duke's webpage,and I still can't believe my eyes! After living in Russia, the US environment looks for me like completely non-antisemitic. Everybody talks about Judea-Christian values like there is no difference nowadays which church or synagog to attend, just worship somewhere and not be an atheist.
I am afraid now to find out there are a human-flesh-eating groups somewhere here. It may be somebodies ancestral tradition of a healthy eating as well. It could pass JM criteria of food being enough LC.
As much as you are accused of unfairly bashing Jimmy, I think you are being far too reserved on this issue. This should be a top-line item on your front page, a standalone post, not a discussion buried in the comments of a "Ketosis and Burning Body Fat" post. People should know this about Jimmy.
I previously told you that I hadn't personally seen enough evidence that Jimmy Moore wasn't a nice guy. I said it was possible, but from what I knew so was him being a nice guy with some misguided opinions.
I retract that now. No nice guy would ever associate with David Duke. And Jimmy didn't just stumble across a health story on Duke's site and link to it without realizing what it was. He actually went on the guy's podcast show. Though he linked to the nutrition area of Duke's blog, other topics listed in large letters at the top, such as "Jewish Extremism", give a hint as to what kind of bile is just a few clicks away.
How did Jimmy link up with David Duke in the first place? He's not saying. Was he a fan of Duke's other writing and saw he was also low-carb, and he got in touch with him? Or was Duke a fan of Jimmy's, and he contacted Jimmy, and Jimmy skimmed Duke's site and saw nothing objectionable?
Or, worse, did Jimmy think he could help a bit in mainstreaming David Duke? That is often a tactic these types use. Try to seem nonthreatening and interesting on most topics, then try to slip in the extreme stuff after people have been conditioned to think of them as a normal, fun, reasonable person.
I am not only disgusted by Jimmy actually doing this, but also by him attempting to ride it out. He first debated it in comments, then he deleted those comments but left the link. Then in Twitter conversations he acted puzzled about what the controversy was, suggested people questioning him had an agenda. Then he finally quietly replaced the link without saying anything. These actions made it clear that he knew all along what Duke stood for and was fine with it until he realized it could hurt his reputation.
Has anybody listened to the show (I know, repulsive idea)? I wonder if Duke sticks to diet issues or if he engages Jimmy in his favorite topics.
Many internationals don't know of Duke ... he's a bit of a has been here in US too. But that nobody really made a peep for over two weeks from FB or his forum? Shame!
I'm guessing many of your regular readers are missing this entirely because it's buried in a thread about ketosis.
Or not. It's your blog. ;-)
You said: "But the irony is 'the great champion' against Haters gonna Hate, that being Jimbo…is using one of my generations greatest and most disgusting "haters" to further his own $$machine, shame on you Moore…"
The shirts said "Haters Make Me FAMOUS!" Perhaps we just misinterpreted what he meant by that. Perhaps it was a coy reference to his upcoming appearance on the David Duke show.
Evelyn in the past has suggested Jimmy get a marketing job. Honestly, could anyone have a better resume than someone who was morbidly obese for years while being accepted as a health expert by so many? Selling ice to eskimos seems simple compared to that feat.
Moore needs to be shunned. This isn't debatable. Associating with America's most prominent white supremacist/Nazi is the end of anyone's reputation. Moore is finished and so is anyone who gets next to him after this.
I sincerely hope that the medical experts who have participated in Moore's interviews will now shun him once they are made aware of this matter.
This is important and I look forward to Evelyn's item. I encourage her to explain the sequence of events so that the medical experts and the public can understand what has taken place.
Eddie
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