The JimKKKins Trio: What did they know, When did they know it, and Does it Matter?

Since no other names have popped up over the past few days, it appears that only three people in the greater low-carb/paleo community were ensnared by the cunning "Dr." David Duke.  I've now listened to all three interviews on Duke's radio program.  Coupled with the stories/explanations each have provided, there are three different sets of circumstances for those trying to decide for themselves what appearances by these individuals on this notorious racist's show mean to them.    In order of their appearances on the show:

Dr. William "Wheat Belly" Davis:  Appeared 2/10/12 (rebroadcast in March)

• The program begins with an audio announcement by Duke explaining that Davis does not know who he is.  Paraphrase:  "He doesn't want to get Davis in trouble"
• Duke pretends to be somewhere in Central Europe at one point in the interview.
• Duke mentions that he's a history professor
• When introduced Davis responds with thanks or pleasure to be here or somesuch, but does not acknowledge the interviewer by name.
• They discuss manufacturers and the word globalism of globalists comes up but of the three interviews there is the least mention of politics and most science talk.
• There is no linking to this interview on the Wheat Belly blog.
• When his appearance was revealed by Jimmy Moore and  asked about this on his blog, Davis responds : 

• It was a mistake to go on his show.
• He honored a request for a rather long interview from a Dr. Duke in Europe at a time when he was being swamped with 4-20 requests per day.
• His appearance does not reflect at all on his views
• Davis gives no indication as to when it was he discovered he'd been duped.  In other words we don't know when he realized he'd appeared on the radio program of a known racist.
• At this time, Davis gives no indication that he has taken any action to have the interview removed from Duke's website as a result of the false pretenses under which he agreed to be interviewe.
• It is unknown whether or not his publisher was involved in setting up the interview.

Some Commentary:  Davis' response here is very strange.  This is a serious issue that he appears not to be taking seriously as he accuses others of trying to make something out of this.  Ummm.  Dr. Davis, you granted an interview, whether knowingly or not, to a notorious neo-Nazi former Grand Wizard of the KKK.  This man supposedly went to considerable lengths to conceal his true identity and location to con you into coming onto his program.  Are you not just a little more outraged that this "mistake" has resulted in a large bolded font headed blog post on the pretty-popular LLVLC blog connecting your name to the term neo-Nazi??  Would it not be prudent to formally disavow any association?  Have you or will you take any action, legal or otherwise, to have the interview removed from Duke's website/archives on the basis of his misrepresenting his identity?  How, at a time when you claim 4-20 media appearance requests a day, does a shady history professor somewhere in Central Europe somehow make the cut for a rather lengthy interview?  How was the interview conducted?  Did you call him, he call you, etc.etc.   It is definitely relevant and needs to be known whether or not Rodale had any knowledge of and/or participated in arranging this interview.  My take is that this response also raises more questions than it answers.   While Duke's verbiage is the most tame in this interview of the three, he still throws out mentions of his and/or his listeners' beliefs.  I don't consider myself the most worldly person of my age (which Davis looks to be at least that), but I've been around the block enough to recognize code words and the like.  So my question to Davis is this:  Did at any point in the interview you become the least bit curious as to the beliefs and activities of your interviewer?  Or was the whole "he didn't know who I was" known to you to cover your butt?  

Dr. Doug McGuff co-author of Body by Science.  

Appeared in a two part interview Feb 24, 25 2012

• The interview also appears to have been pre-recorded with commercials etc. inserted afterwards.  It also appears to have been taped in one very long session.  
• At one point you hear a buzzer and Duke says 'we need to go to break'.  One can probably presume McGuff was not hearing/listening to commercials.  While there's nothing nefarious in the commercials, Duke's mention of his videos and views and such would at least rate a curious inquiry.
• There's an accompanying web page with David Duke Commentary containing this disclaimer:   My radio programs interview a wide range of experts in many areas of life, politics, finance, health, science, and the fact that I interview them obviously does not mean I necessarily agree with every position they may represent, and certainly does not necessarily mean the individual agrees with every position that I hold. I endeavor to engage the personalities I interview in a low key, almost anonymous manner, so as not to affect the interview by issues extraneous to the subject at hand.  I don’t want my other viewpoints to influence the candid response of the person that I interview on the subjects at hand. There is such an intellectual suppression going today, that the new inquisitors against free speech want to make some subjects and some personalities off limits. I will interview and engage in discussion with anyone in regard to any subject I find valuable to the well-being of my own nation and people and indeed all nations and peoples around the world.
• Upon introduction McGuff responds with thanks or pleasure to be here or something like that (I will not relisten!) but addresses him by name: Dr. Duke.  
• At about the 33:45 mark (I clipped out commercial break) Duke mentions that a lot of his listenership is very scientific minded and are anti-globalist.  McGuff responds in stride.  Listen for yourselves:

Hosted by Kiwi6 file hosting.

• When outed on Jimmy Moore's blog, McGuff responded.  Screenshot at right, click to view full size.  Summary:
• Duke contacted his manager on multiple occasions
• McGuff requested examples of his work which Duke provided, and there were no red flags in that material
• "Dr. Duke" represented himself as a history professor at American University in England.
• McGuff didn't know it was *THE* Dr. David Duke until a client/Duke radio listener left him a voicemail about his appearance.
• McGuff wanted to puke
• McGuff or his peeps did not do due diligence in vetting Duke and if he'd known about his full true identity he would not have done the interview.
• There is no reference to this interview on the BBS website/blog, disavowing this.  
• McGuff waited roughly nine months to speak out about this only after Jimmy Moore "outed" him.
• It certainly does not appear that McGuff took any action in these intervening nine months since he admits to being aware that he had indeed granted a long interview with *the* David Duke.  
• It would appear that his Ultimate Exercise (corrected from Ultimate Science) "gig" was the route by which this interview was arranged, but we do not know whether or not McGraw Hill, his publisher, is aware of this and/or had anything to do with the interview.

Some Commentary:  Alongside many who have commented on this issue here at The Asylum, I share a certain disbelief in these stories based on the ho-hum nature of the response by McGuff.  As is Davis, McGuff is apparently a practicing physician first.  That may well not be either's main focus, or it may still be, I'm not sure.  But we are talking about an intelligent man here, whom we are to believe agreed to an interview with *a* "Dr. Duke" (first name David it would appear) and came to realize he'd been duped a long time ago.  Where was the outrage, moral or otherwise?    As he was doing the interview, when Duke started talking about his beliefs and that of his listeners and identified as an anti-globalist, did he not have the smallest of lingering thoughts/questions about who this guy he'd just chatted it up with for well over an hour?  I find that hard to believe.  

I am very much interested in the outcome of Peter Heimlich's  inquiry into the role, if any, of the publishers in these two matters.  My gut says that the PR peeps at these two mainstream publishers are far too media savvy to fall for something like this.  This therefore raises more serious questions as to the personal involvement in the decision-making and arrangement processes ... as well as the fall-out and inadequate response to date.  And then there's 

Jimmy Moore of Livin La Vida Low Carb blog, Appears Dec. 7, 2012.

• For some reason or another, there is no blog post on Duke's website announcing this interview to his readers. 
• There is no "disclaimer", either written or verbal setting up Jimmy's appearance, indicating that "Dr. Duke" engaged in any manner of hiding his full true identity to protect Jimmy or obtain unbiased answers.

The remainder of this comes from piecing together from Jimmy's response and his accompanying comments and responses.

• He knew him as Dr. David Duke pretty much from first contact but claims he didn't know of "THE" Dr. Duke.
• In October, a reader sent him links to nutrition articles on Duke's site and urged him to get Duke on his LLVLC podcast.
• Jimmy followed those links to the website claiming to be unaware of who David Duke was and was impressed by the low-carb-message-friendly nature of the various articles. 
• No mention of if he clicked on the "About" tab to see who he was dealing with, or any of the other more potentially inflammatory topics adorning the header of the website on each and every page.
• Jimmy contacts Duke to appear on LLVLC podcast.
• Duke says he'd like to, but invites Jimmy to come on his Fitness Fridays segment first.
• Dec. 7 Jimmy appears -- LIVE. This is an important distinction compared with the Drs. Duped, because he is interrupted by commercial music and it is a reasonable assumption that Jimmy listened to the non-interview content of the program.
• To repeat, there was no lead-in by Duke informing the audience of how he had to trick Jimmy in order to get him to appear on his show. Instead there's a 5+ minute political rant on unrelated topics such as Hollywood, the globalist media, and alcohol and all that jazz.  
• Later on Dec 7, Jimmy posts a link to the show on Facebook and his LLVLC Discussion board. 
• That same day, a FB friend asks if this is the "infamous" David Duke? Jimmy responds "Yep!"  Jimmy now claims he thought "infamous" meant his friend had heard of this new LC voice that had been taking the community by storm that everyone was talking about.  / sarcasm
• On Dec 12 another FB friend expresses his dismay that Jimmy would associate with someone of Duke's questionable character.  Jimmy does not respond.  
• On Dec 22 Jimmy links to David Duke in his latest roundup of 36 Paleo/LC/Health blogs to check out.  By this point the third nutrition story on that page is entitled:  The Great Porn Experiment - One More Devastating Jewish Globalist Influence and How to Overcome It! 
• In short order, he is asked on his blog if he's a fan of Duke by one commenter, and informed he's a neo-Nazi by another.  Jimmy responds that Duke's nutritional info is spot on and expands upon that stating Duke had invited him onto his radio program to the second  It doesn't matter to him what Duke's other beliefs might be.  Jimmy then deleted both comments and his responses.
• On LLVLC discussion forum thread some replies were finally made, a conversation ensued, but Jimmy removed that thread.  At some point he also deletes the link to Duke on his website.
• On Dec. 29 Jimmy writes his "response".  In doing research for that response, Jimmy discovered that Drs. McGuff and Davis had been on in February.  Jimmy puts this forth as evidence that he's being singled out because there was no blowback against the others.
• In comments, in response to McGuff, Jimmy describes the above scenario as "almost precisely" like what McGuff described happened to him.  This was despite the only similarity being that he'd been interviewd by Duke, and after having described in the post proper how he had just that day learned of the McGuff's and Davis' appearances (prompting his post title). 
• In the same comment response Jimmy claims that Duke had dropped the names of McGuff, Davis and others in order to convince him to come on the program.
• Jimmy accuses his critics of engaging in gestapo tactics as used by 1930's Nazi secret police while claiming multiple times he had never even heard the term neo-Nazi before in his 41 years of life.

Some Commentary:  First, I think it is important to break this into parts, beginning with distinguishing and evaluating what is going on here separately for each of the three individuals involved.  Each should be judged on their own circumstances and responses.  As such, while I'm left wanting from both doctor's responses, they should be given their own "fair shake" separate and apart from Jimmy Moore's unequivocally dishonest accounting of his experiences.

That said, Jimmy has clearly been caught engaging in highly questionable professional behavior.  He is a "professional podcaster", a journalist of sorts with three profitable podcasts airing 5 days a week as of earlier this year.  For the better part of almost two years (if not longer), Jimmy has been viewed more in this light and credited more for bringing lots of good information and making many experts accessible to the greater community, than for his weight loss success story.  So one of the somewhat overlooked aspects of his story is that he contacted Duke.  Imagine, if you will, that Duke had not started his "Fitness Fridays" segment on the radio show, so there would not have been a reason for him to turn the tables to invite Jimmy on his show.  I'm only going by what Jimmy tells us, which is that he invited Duke to come on his program.  This after  having viewed the materials at the davidduke dot com website.  So this is pretty darned damning of Jimmy's vetting/screening process as to who he brings on to his podcasts and ultimately what info they share, not to mention what expertise they have.  He clearly didn't even do the most cursory vetting of the man reading the  About page on the website, let alone the simplest of Google searches, if that reading left any doubt about the man.  Can you just imagine how that would have gone down?  A LLVLC podcast discussing his views, perhaps sponsored by the latest book slandering Calorie Wizards by Adam Kosloff.  ( don't think sponsors necessarily get to choose which episodes they sponsor -- my own was sponsored by Sisson and Kosloff. )  Perhaps Duke sticks only to nutrition, but Jimmy mentions his website and links to it in the show notes.   But that didn't happen, seemingly only because Jimmy went on Duke's show first.

As I mentioned in my audio commentary, what we have here is a situation where a not-untrivial "crime" was complicated considerably further by his "cover-up".   There are some claims open to interpretation or whether or not Jimmy Moore can be taken at his word.  There are other statements that are uniequivocally FALSE.  He cannot say he misspoke.  Duke injected non-nutrition views right smack in the middle of the interview with no response from Jimmy (either during or after).  Jimmy had visited and linked to THE official website of THE David Duke, even if we are to believe he had no clue because of his own lack of time to do miniscule poking about.  Jimmy had reason to at least investigate further after the Dec 12 FB message before linking to that blog on the 22nd.    It is not possible that Jimmy just learned on 12/29 of the Davis and McGuff appearances and that he was "conned" in "almost precisely" the same manner as the Drs  with Duke mentioning their earlier appearances.  Just not possible for these two "facts" to both be true.  Therefore at least one is a flat out lie.  Given just that FACT alone, there are any number of other inconsistencies for which one can no longer give Jimmy the benefit of the doubt -- some even less believable (I didn't know what a neo-Nazi was!) than the denials that came before (I never knew who David Duke was until some time after December 22, by "infamous" he thought his friend was referring to the non-existence of Duke being well known for his nutritional views).  Taken on their own, each of the latter claims can be explained away by a plausible, however improbable, statement.  Taken together?  

THE BOTTOM LINES

The Doctors: It seems to me that for McGuff and Davis, it is their association with David Duke in any manner that presents the most serious problem.  At the very least, we are now to believe they are both careless authors working with suboptimal intelligence when giving interviews.  This brings into question the level of intelligence and care that went into compiling the information in their books.  I have not read McGuff's, but Davis' certainly leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the science put forth.

Jimmy Moore:  In Jimmy's case, while his appearance on Duke's program is the most damning  due to its live nature and lack of any disclaimer put forth by Duke regarding any effort to conceal his full/true identity, the more problematic hole Jimmy finds himself in is the one he has dug by lying about it.  If this were the first instance of this man lying in the course of doing business as Less Of Moore More Or Less LLC, this might not be as big an issue.  But it's not.  His past professional malfeasance with his involvement with the Kimkins scam has been revisited here and elsewhere of late for good reason.  There are too many parallels to ignore.  The promises Jimmy Moore made in 2007 when he apologized and asked for forgiveness were broken in 2012.   If you have not read that apology yet,  now would be a good time to do so.    The many parallels are endless and worthy of a post of their own.  For now I'll leave you with the following (please do read the whole thing, I am not trying to change the meaning by crunching down a few paragraphs to make this point, if anyone feels I am please feel free to state your case in comments):

2007: .... my refusal to properly review and then hold Kimkins to the same standard as other plans and approaches I’ve praised and criticized was a glaring mistake of omission for which I regret. ... Call me stubborn, but for the life of me I could not see what the problem was; I truly believed I was indeed following K/E and honestly had not reviewed the other plans on the site. ... I regret that I allowed my excitement about my renewed commitment to losing those last few pounds I wanted to overwhelm me to the point I lost my good sense.

I hope sharing this with you today will help us all avoid making similar missteps in the future. 

and now 2012:

In my opinion, if the Paleo and LC communities learn anything from this, it's a lesson in who to trust to bring you all the "latest information".  You just never know what you're going to get, it might just be being sent to the website of the notorious racist David Duke ... because being a former Grand Wizard of the KKK doesn't matter when you're spreading the Good Word of Low Carb.  Only it sure as heck does ...