Jimmy Moore's Presentation at 2014 Reversing Diabetes Knowledge Summit
Hey folks ...
I don't have the time to blog on this today, but I wanted to post Jimmy Moore's interview in what I'm calling the 2014 Reversing Diabetes ^ Knowledge Summit.
This video (audio) will only be live at this link until 10am EST tomorrow morning. Anyone who thinks I have been unfair or maligned Mr. Moore by spreading misinformation should listen to this.
UPDATED: Read these posts about Jimmy's "reactive hypoglycemia" You might find them enlightening.
Dealing With Possible Reactive Hypoglycemia--One Month Later
The LC Doc was ... drumroll ........ Dr. Eric Westman.
Post-Low-Carb Meal 5-Hour Glucose Tolerance Test Produces Rather Odd Results
That meal was like 1000 calories of several eggs, butter cheese and a Chick Fil A chicken breast. ← the obvious culprit in his metabolic woes!!!
The above are from mid 2008.
The above are from mid 2008.
Realize that everything -- EVERYTHING -- I have ever said about the man comes from his own "mouth". His blog, FB, podcasts, etc. And no, I don't follow him around, I subscribe to feeds and people send me stuff. Just how all of his many fans keep up with him (or used to), and exactly how he and others know what I have said around he internet. And it's what he has actually said, not what someone who hasn't really read or listened thinks he has.
He is -- as amazingly impossible as it is to believe -- considered an "expert", been given book deals, and international speaking engagements! It's crazy, I know. But this man's disinformation is dangerous. He is not promoting a diet that has any sort of long term track record.
This video is full of lies. From nothing else working (he lost 170 lbs in 1999 on a low fat diet), to no mention of massive weight swings since his 2004 weight loss, beginning at least in 2007, to not knowing his triglycerides before Atkins, to numerous health problems brought on by his diet and a failure to admit his cholesterol levels are astronomical. Food quality didn't matter to him until 2011.
As you listen, keep in mind that the sanctimonious interviewer is a chiropractor. If you listen to nothing else, listen to them go off on doctors at the 8:30 min mark. Do you REALLY think that doctors who SPECIALIZE in treating diabetics know less than a chiropractor? Than Jimmy Moore? Than half the "holistic nutritionists" out there with certificates from unaccredited "colleges". Or PhD's from defunct mail order companies? Also realize that his wife is visibly less healthy as he gets her more and more involved in his crazy schemes.
Jimmy says he's thriving. If prediabetic blood sugars w/o use of berberine, "nightmarish lipids" including LDL-C over 300, LDL-P over 3000, TC over 400, "mild risk" arterial flow, protein, mucus and crystals in his urine, high pH urine, reduced immunity, low T, accelerated aging, increasingly concentrated abdominal obesity, sarcopenia etc. is thriving, then he's your man.
Comments
Jimmy Moore diet (2007) 60-30-10 (fat/protein/carb)
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/dont-get-fooled-by-ridiculous-atkins-diet-blood-vessel-study/2114
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/05/jimmy-moore-pss.html
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/arent-you-going-to-respond-to-the-negative-attacks-against-you/14203
Diet Detective: What physical activity do you do to keep yourself in shape?
Jimmy:In addition to living a fairly active life (e.g., I park my car far away from the store that I shop at, I take the stairs at work, etc.), I also like to play basketball and volleyball at my church as well as daily workouts at my local YMCA on the elliptical machine. I can usually get in a good 45–60 minute workout while enjoying all the natural, stress–relieving endorphins that get released from doing so. If I knew exercising could be this pleasurable, then I would have been doing it a long time ago! Better late than never!
Jimmy Moore is one of the "stars" of the low-carb movement. In 2004 he followed Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution and took his weight from 410 down to 230 pounds.
In December 2007 he began to do resistance training. Long story short--in the process of building up strength and muscle mass, Jimmy gained 30 pounds and couldn't seem to get rid of it.
An Update (October 12, 2008)
Jimmy followed this regimen until the middle of August and took his weight down to about 255. He then joined Isabeau Miller's FitCamp for two weeks and began doing all sorts of vigorous exercise, which he has faithfully continued during the subsequent weeks. To avoid muscle weakness and exhaustion during workouts, Jimmy experimented with adding in healthy extra carbs. He also returned to eating his favorite low-carb products and began eating more often. Bottom line: On October 3 and again on October 11 Jimmy weighed in at 270 pounds.
SO - between 12/2007 and 8/2008 he lost a grand total of 5 lbs!!
In the following month and a half he gained 15 lbs!!
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarbblogs/a/jimmymoore_4.htm
Over the past few years, I convinced myself that maybe I needed to get down a little further and I was able to be as low as 213 at one point. However, I felt awful at that weight, became very weak with no energy whatsoever and experienced an unhealthy obsession with reaching a contrived number on the scale. While I don't think people who are carrying around loads of extra body weight is a good idea, it's also not prudent to try to force weight loss where it is unnecessary just to reach an artificial and arbitrary "goal weight."
How is the advice to "darn well better get as much fat as you can" with lean meat working out for him? He's fat (and still gaining), weak and looks at least 20 years older than he is. Who in the world is hoping for his results? I just don't get it.
13:38 JM goes off again about reactive hypoglycemia and insulin resistance. He understands neither and neither does the chiropractor. This is so sad. He's out chasing after an imaginary dragon, thinking he is reactively hypoglycemic.
JM used to be worse. If you listen to some of his older interviews, he used to berate and run guests out of his show for criticizing Atkins. He's toned down his act considerably.
I could not get over that part at 9:49 outburst.
"There is no such thing as a healthy whole grain." Gee, I guess somebody should mention that to the Okinawans. On the other hand, eating "fifteen packs of butter" with one meal is A-OK. Classic.
The phenomenon of JM is not really different on many levels from the phenomenon of established religion. Your blog, despite your best efforts will not convince or persuade anyone from falling off the cliff in his "keto church" other than those who are already inclined not to fall. You cannot save stupidity.
This will end badly for JM, probably sooner than later.
3. I must eat an egg no later than 30 minutes after waking.
4. The egg meals ideally should be eaten every 3 hours, but not more than every 5 hours.
5. I will follow this schedule even if I’m not hungry (I’ll have 1 egg when that happens).
I'm curious what their reaction would be. That's almost worthy of a Dr. Seuss book. Hey...he's DOCTOR Seuss after all right?
The books just boggle the mind. Self publishing is one thing. Victory Belt seems to publish any old thing. Cholesterol Clarity didn't do very well but I guess well enough. KC will flop b/c there really aren't that many people interested in that.
Yes, I know your intentions are admirable and I think your efforts elevate the level of the dialogue. Unfortunately, many of those "folks looking for answers" won't be able to do anything except "follow his lead." They will do so because that is who they are; their intellectual constitutions already guarantee that they will accommodate, embrace, and ultimately praise the promulgations of a salesman who criticizes the "science" in government nutrition policy and conventional medical practice and then goes to church to among other things denounce evolution. This theater, in its entirety, is largely, a matter of a fait accompli.
That said, I do think that there is a place for healthy semi low carb/paleo. Basing one's food pyramid on fruits and vegetables instead of fat is a good start. I reversed my own T2D on a high-raw regimen which included plenty of apples and grapefruit. Don't tell Dr. Bernstein!
knowledge, what education do you have to give ANYONE ANY kind of advice?"
It's so irritating that Moore and co all talk this nonsense with this sickening degree of pathological self-certitude and without the even the SLIGHTEST hint of doubt...
"The hermit will doubt whether behind every one of his caves there is not always another......" - Beyond Good and Evil
It's rather absurd
Here he's been brainwashed by naturopaths that the secret to thyroid is in the Ft3/Rt3 ratio. But why would Chrstine have thyroid issues unless she's been LCing like Jimmy?
Sometimes I wonder how people manage to believe him. With the sticks of butter for breakfast he manages to make even Rosedale look moderate.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152477327101320&id=91566951319
Joe Savant
I'm glad her's went down. My LDL-P is through the roof, my LDL-C is through the roof and my HDL hasn't raised at all. I'm limiting SFA and adding in more MUFA and PUFA. I'm still in ketosis, but if this P and C don't start trending down, then I'm going to have to try something else.
Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low-Carb
I don't necessarily think those things are as bad as they've been made out to be. But that's my choice to believe that, of course. I'm
monitoring for actual disease taking place and none is happening.
Joe Savant (Could this be JM's alter ego??)
That's awesome My particle count is over 3000, my apoB is 199 and my HDL is in the 40's. Total C is 318. I'm 43 years old. I noticed your's is pretty similar. So keep us informed on your CV health if you don't mind. I'm looking for ward to reading about it in more detail.
UH - Jimmy - no disease taking plac?
As Evelyn says - "If prediabetic blood sugars w/o use of
berberine, "nightmarish lipids" including LDL-C over 300, LDL-P over 3000, TC over 400, "mild risk" arterial flow, protein, mucusand
crystals in his urine, high pH urine, reduced immunity, low T,
accelerated aging, increasingly concentrated abdominal obesity,
sarcopenia etc. is thriving, then he's your man.
Look at JM's picture - the pinnacle of LC diet success!
"At 8:15am, I had that delicious egg and sausage meal that took me about five minutes to consume. At 8:20am, just after finishing my meal, I checked my blood sugar again and it had already dropped seven points to 86. Curious about this sudden drop, I then checked my blood sugar level again fifteen minutes later at 8:35am and it had jumped UP to 102. Hmmmm, now this was interesting. That made me want to see what would happen in fifteen more minutes at 8:50am and my blood sugar was back down to 92 again. For kicks, I measured it two more times at 15-minute intervals at 9:05am and 9:20am and my blood sugar was 89 and 92 respectively. I stopped measuring because it was almost time to eat
again."
SO - at 8:15 he eats 2 eggs and 2 sausage patties - then @ 9:20 (1 hr, 5 min later) he eats again!! And he wonders why he gains weight!!
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152477327101320&id=91566951319
TC - dropped 42 points from 240 to 198
LDL went down (22 points from 137 to 115)
HDL went down (15 points from 79 to 64)
(LDL) particle number…”
JIMMY: “Went up.”
DOCTOR: “…went up a little bit, but your ApoB went down which is also related to the LDL particle number.”
Christine then
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/liposciences-nmr-lipoprofile-test-a-revolutionary-more-accurate-lipid-profile-particle-size-screening/6522
Total Cholesterol 183
LDL-C 113
HDL-C 47
Triglycerides 113
LDL Particle Number 1262
Small LDL-P 722
LDL Part. Size 21.2
Large HDL-P 9.5
Large VLDL-P 0.6
Interesting that her LDL-P went up but good ole JM doesn't give the number.
Her previous LDL-P and especially her small LDL-P were very bad
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2667/2
White rice is basically a nutritionally empty junk food. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5722/2
Most dietitians are not experts in nutrition. They are clinical educators who have received a very basic grounding in biochemistry, physiology and food science. They are primarily trained to recommend minimal 'healthy' modifications, such as using low fat milk, to conventional diets.
A major employer of dietitians is the food processing industry. The role of these dietitians is to convince the public that the processed crap has some trace of nutritional value.
The continuing education of dietitians is very heavily influenced by food industry sponsored training that recommends unscientific 'balanced' diets based on very high levels of (processed) grain, meat and dairy consumption.
If you read modern basic nutritional research you will be informed that the healthiest diets are very low (<10%) fat plant based 'vegan' diets. These are the diets that many leading researchers also follow. However extensive lobbying by the food and agriculture industries totally transform this research into vague recommendations that barely change the existing diet.
But he would have to ramp up to it, I get the impression he eats very few vegetables, or plants of any kind. If he just switched right over from what he is eating now, he would probably be in serious digestive discomfort, which he could blame on the Ebil Carbs etc.
sure, but how much knowledge?
Steve Novella claims (I vaguely recall that he points to studies on this issue) that skepticism often does not show up until late in grad school.
Christine was not LCing back in 2009 or 2010. It seems he had her "really get serious" with it for their failed embryo adoption (ironically, when she couldn't stomach the eggs with morning sickness, they opted for pills right away over more anti-nauseating foods like toast that she usually likes). Then he put her on a keto diet to post her numbers last year, posted one week's and stopped. For some reason she is eating more and more like him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UqoryPjO6U
(it's one of several such videos of people who have had T1 for 50, 60, 70 and even 80 years)
http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com/1/post/2011/08/is-a-low-carb-high-fat-diet-a-heart-healthy-one.html
"As a registered dietitian, I can't endorse a low-carbohydrate diet consisting of 6 eggs fried in butter with 4 slices of bacon for breakfast, 3 hamburger patties for lunch, and a 20-oz steak with a tiny green salad for dinner. While certainly nearly carb-free, it's missing a lot of beneficial phytochemicals found only in plant foods and contains only a couple of grams of fiber. But I firmly believe that a carbohydrate-restricted plan that includes the high-fiber plant foods listed above can be a very heart-healthy way to go."
to embrace cherry picking, the usual splits and schisms are developing. As I told Muata a long, long time ago on this site, as per usual with group dynamics the "moderates" like Kurt Harris left and the extremists are winning out (even Atkins maintained people should eventually go back to more mainstream eating), alternate holy books are developing
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/fed-up-asks-are-all-calories-equal/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
I've often wondered why vegetarians/vegans, paleo dieters, and low carbers are so vocal in comment sections, but calorie counters (and their relatives, Weihjt Watchers etc.) show up much less, although from what I remember in the National Weight Loss registry the latter are more dominant among maintainers. And when calorie counters do show up, they tend not to get drawn into long comment wars.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cB1Qt8AMBXw/T-ByFa5JURI/AAAAAAAABY0/BT7TrLXf8qA/s1600/Endocrinology+Nussey+&+Whitehead+Woman+with+Thigh+Bulges.png
"Total Cholesterol 351
LDL-C 278
HDL-C 57
Triglycerides 79
LDL Particle Number 2130
Small LDL-P 535
LDL Part. Size 22.0
Large HDL-P 10.9
Large VLDL-P 0.4
Most physicians would look at this with big bug eyes and write a prescription for a statin drug so fast you wouldn’t be able to blink before he handed it to you! But despite my “high” total cholesterol of 351 and LDL of 278, take a look at my HDL and triglycerides. The numbers were 57 and 79 respectively and basically a ratio of 1:1. Low-carb diet research Dr. Jeff Volek from the University of Connecticut says it’s this triglyceride/HDL ratio that is more important than total and LDL cholesterol ever will be.
Although my particle number of 2130 is considered “very high” for this test, the particle size of the small LDL-P was just 535 of that — considered “low” according to the test. Additionally, the LDL Particle Size of 22.0 nm is indicative of the “large” fluffy kind and the Large HDL-P and Large VLDL-P numbers I had put me in the “low risk” category. In other words, 1595 of my LDL particles were this protective kind and the graph was off the charts.
Meanwhile, the small LDL-P number was less than half of the “goal” that is considered desirable. The numbers were well within the safe range.
WOO HOO!"
Why not just take his wife??
Does Jimmy Moore know about how ridiculous it is to test his glucose using such strange spacing patterns? Instead of blood glucose, he should be more concerned about his pancreas constantly being taxed to secrete enzymes to digest the huge amounts of fat he ingests. At his triglyceride level, I would not be surprised if his self-induced adventures in lipoprotein metabolism means some form of pancreatitis in his near future. Risking healthy functioning of the pancreas like that, by eating so much fat at one sitting, is basically asking for higher risk in pancreatic cancer. I actually would like to see him compulsively check his lipid panels rather than blood glucose, seeing as how his fatty, protein-rich diet is giving him that unhealthy, ascites look in people with bad liver and pancreatic functions.
He has the outward appearance of someone with poor liver and pancreatic functions, the bloated face coupled with ascites appearance. Not saying he has ascites but that from looking at him you can tell something metabolically wrong is going on.
Contrary to what many VLC followers are made to believe, the longer you are on such diets, the higher the chances of your triglycerides inching higher. This is even if you lose weight and improve overall lipid profiles initially. When I worked with pediatric patients on clinical trials I got to see interesting trials from oncology treatments to one that really was interesting to me at the time, ketogenic diets for management of epilepsy. For some of the kids, their triglyceride levels inched upwards and stayed there the longer they were on ketogenic diets. It was fascinating but a little worrisome. Incidence of epileptic seizures may have been lessened but then in the process another set of possible concerns were created, mainly the body being in an acidotic state all the time and of course high lipid panels. All of them end up taking meds to combat side effects of ketogenic diet.
I'll go for penicillium (I know it's not bacteria but hey ... BLUE CHEESE) and Koji and the bacteria in Kimchi & the yogurt from Finland, Viili.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=197131
Effect of a High-Fat Ketogenic Diet on Plasma Levels of Lipids, Lipoproteins, and Apolipoproteins in Children
Results At 6 months, the high-fat ketogenic diet significantly increased the mean plasma levels of total (58 mg/dL [1.50 mmol/L]), LDL (50 mg/dL [1.30mmol/L]), VLDL (8 mg/dL [0.21 mmol/L]), and non-HDL cholesterol (63 mg/dL [1.63 mmol/L]) (P<.001 vs baseline for each); triglycerides (58 mg/dL [0.66 mmol/L]) (P<.001); and total apoB (49 mg/dL) (P<.001). Mean HDL cholesterol decreased significantly (P<.001), although apoA-I
increased (4 mg/dL) (P = .23). Significant but less marked changes persisted in children observed after 12 and 24 months.
Conclusions A high-fat ketogenic diet produced significant increases in the atherogenic apoB–containing lipoproteins and a decrease in the antiatherogenic HDL cholesterol. Further studies are necessary to determine if such a diet adversely affects endothelial vascular function and promotes inflammation and formationof atherosclerotic lesions.
He claims it is genetic in origin and his other family members have it. He apparently had a biopsy in 2011, which was related to possibly lymphoma, which results from immune deficiency. He claims again that diabetics are prone to lymphomas -- again, bullshit, that's the result of VLCing; your immune system tanks when you're under constant ketogic stress. I'll get you the full quote kater; I have to dig that out since I listened to it a week ago and I lost the exact spot where he says this and I'm quite busy this week. But this is exactly what I was referring to. This is the result of long-term VLCing. Oh boy, did he pull the wool over everyone, including his patients, ever?
The Science Based Medicine website has talked about how for many people, personal narratives (anecdotes) are more convincing than actual facts. (I think the Colbert Report has covered this too, in a more entertaining way!) That's why we need the scientific method and peer review. Part of its role is to counter the power of the anecdote, which even researchers can be trapped by.
Calorie counters need a cool story. The "We Just Need Willpower" one you see sometimes in comments is a dead end. Willpower is finite (there is scientific evidence for this) and is inevitably going to run out in the face of the huge number of food decisions most Americans have to make every day.* We might think of developing an Us Against Them narrative with processed food producers as the Them. For that we would have to overcome the realities of the profit motive in our modern society.
*I don't subscribe to the idea that obesity is increasing because there has been an erosion of willpower in current generations compared to Americans. But there has been a huge change in the number of decisions that Americans have to make every day just to feed themselves, because of the increasing number and variety of food products. If you are my age (born 1968) you just have to look at the change in the size of supermarkets from the 1970s to today.
One could literally swap around a few words and they're using the same literature. The same ol', it's the government killing us. The same old: our food supply is tainted. The same old: they don't know the truth about 'real nutrition'.
Of course, then the final answer is where they might differ, but really, something has to be said about these major overlaps in the MO of each side.
Oh, and it's even more telling if one has high fasting trigs despite extreme carb restriction. Just like it's serious trouble if one is getting very high glycaemic response just from eating a measly steak or serving of meat -- that's one horribly messed up glucose metabolism.
IMHO we ought to leave this to FREDDY baby - but I write that firmly believing that deadly FREDly will only sling the accusation at unidentified members of his gym -
slowburnfitness.com/
anthonycolpo.com/fred-hahns-slow-burn-debunked
fredrickhahn.com/
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Fred+Hahn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=GSZxU9HcLcqC8QeYg4CADQ
Most report continuing to maintain a low calorie, low fat diet and doing high levels of activity.
78% eat breakfast every day.
75% weigh themselves at least once a week.
62% watch less than 10 hours of TV per week.
90% exercise, on average, about 1 hour per day.
Yeah, I remember him talking about this RH in 2009 and linking to that and mentioning being on metformin. None of it makes sense. RH is not going a few points below baseline some hours later. Nor was his insulin aberrant considering the size and composition of the meal. I especially don't get metformin for his "condition" as that should only suppress glucose production in the liver ... but I could be missing something.
Jimmy Moore found what works for him in 2004.
He lost 180 lbs that year and by the end of he next year he was in pretty good shape.
He has been tweaking and experimenting ever since to make it work for him ever since.
Regularly one can read about those kind of "results" in the forums and ALWAYS someone comes around and encourages people to further cut back on evil... Some LC Kool-Aid anyone???
BTW, now on a high produce low SF low cholesterol diet my TC hovers between 150 and 160 mg/dl. It's such a mystery, isn't it?
Bernstein a low-carb "Nazi"??? Hmm...The sudden appearance of this other "N" word is a tipoff that the ground floor of civility has just collapsed. I've seen no reports of Dr. Bernstein holding a 9mm Luger to the temples of kneeling diabetics, ordering them to restrict their carb intake. By all means go after the soundness of Bernstein's dietary recommendations, but how does it advance your argument to ridicule his appearance? Calling someone a "creepy looking dude" carries a lot of weight in the schoolyard playground, but I'm pretty sure it's not a valid scientific argument. Particularly so in this case since Bernstein's deformities occurred prior to his low-carb diet. It was the chronically elevated blood sugars of his childhood diabetes that caused the deterioration of many of his body's systems--caused his growth to be stunted, caused fatty growths on his eyelids and gray deposits around the iris of each eye, plus "frozen shoulders", along with a progressive deformity of his feet. All the while dutifully following the ADA and AHA low sat-fat, 45% carb diets--for which he had to compensate with very large doses of insulin--injected with a 10cc "horse-syringe" (which eventually destroyed all the fatty tissue in the skin of his thighs).
Just guessing, but I don't think you'd call an adult who suffered the deformities of, say, childhood polio a "creepy looking dude." The best diet in the world cannot correct some severe damages suffered during childhood.
Nuff said.
That perception is crumbling now behind what we're finding out about this guy and what kind of cover up he has been engaged in. Creepy is a term that was probably coined for his behavior for the last 15 years. I'll write more on this later but the question now is, what did Bernstein know about hormonal and immune dysfunction in his patients and those who follow a strict VLCing diet and when did he know it? Evidence is mounting that he's known this longer than any other diet guru and that he's been actively covering up such serious conditions.
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