It's official. Jimmy Moore & Co. aren't interested in solving metabolic mysteries after all
UPDATE 9/14/13: I am in the process of deciding exactly how to deal with one Dr. William L. Wilson, discoverer of the imaginary CARB Syndrome. This appears to have been the only post of mine he links to in his unsolicited diagnosis of yours truly with this made up mental illness. Further he offered treatment in the the form of his Carb-22 supplement.
My purpose for this update is that some have -- rightfully, IMO -- taken him to task for making this bizarre diagnosis on the internet, of someone he has not only not met in person, but apparently knows very little accurate information about based on skimming a few blog posts. After the fact he emailed me a link to the post, and posted one on another post on this blog. He is busy answering many challenges to his post on his FB page at the moment.
Rather than re-evaluate the prudence of his actions, he seems to be digging a hole. One way he is doing that is claiming I am some public figure and it's fair game for everyone to diagnose me ... oh, and because in this post I essentially did the same thing with Jimmy Moore. Now, this would not justify his actions, especially since as a licensed and practicing physician he is clearly subject to laws that I, a mere blogger, am not. But let's clear a few things up anyway.
In his post he wrote:
You might wonder how can I possibly diagnose someone with a disease who I have never personally met? Yes, to some extent I am speculating, but in medicine we often speculate about possible diseases in patients we have never seen when discussing cases with our colleagues in “curb side” consults. CarbSane even does this herself when she speculates that Jimmy Moore has Klinefelter’s syndrome and she doesn’t even have an MD behind her name. Over the years I have successfully treated thousands of patients who fit the CARB syndrome pattern and in my opinion CarbSane clearly falls into this category. After 35 years of clinical experience, my diagnostic skills are very sharp.
On FB he's written:
Out in the world physicians and every Tom, Dick and Harry speculate what might be wrong with public figures like CarbSane. Physicians do this all the time on TV and in the media. Even CarbSane does this when she speculates whether Jimmy Moore has a genetic condition.
You call my analysis of CarbSane “mean spirited”, yet she suggests that Jimmy Moore has Kleinfelter’s syndrome. Perhaps she was trying to give Jimmy information that would help him but I doubt it. Klinefelter’s syndrome is a genetic disorder you really can’t treat. If CarbSane really does have CARB syndrome, it is a reversible disorder that is quite easy to treat. If she doesn’t want to deal with it, that’s her choice and it’s fine with me. If she is interested in checking out, I have information that might be helpful to her.There are more, perhaps I edit them in, perhaps not. In any case, I can see how he thought that ... my wording is not always crystal clear, this is a blog after all, and I don't proof, edit and consolidate nearly as much as I would like to if I had infinite time. But as it turns out, I did not. Here are the exact words:
It has come up in comments here of late that Jimmy might have Klinefelter's syndrome which is one cause of hypogonadism.
Klinefelter's was raised by someone in comments here (no I do not have the time nor desire to track a link down). I also recall that I said at least once that I do not believe this to be the case. A chromosomal condition like that is usually diagnosed early on. However, there are many other causes of hypogonadism and he displays enough symptoms that if he were getting proper comprehensive care, this would at least have been addressed. So let's be clear, I did *speculate* that this may be an issue for him, I did not diagnose him.
I did not wish to get Regina any more sneers aimed at her at the time so I didn't quote her post I linked to, but I will now. Not to bring her any belated headaches, but because folks like Wilson are apparently too lazy to click through links and read the content that has stirred me to write what I do here. I don't write this blog in a vacuum. In this post, Regina wrote:
Since it is the endocrine system which largely controls our weight and hunger, it needs to function well for weight loss and maintenance. Yet, there are some endocrine issues which a diet alone cannot resolve - they are genetic - and Jimmy has, we've learned through his posts, hypogonadism.
Simply understood, that's where you, if male, have low testosterone, elevated LH and/or FSH, and often it leads to high serum ferritin (iron).Jimmy has shared with readers that he has this condition - and it's something, that after reading up on it last night, one cannot change with diet alone. Now this isn't an excuse - but a reason that helps explain why Jimmy's appetite is such that he's driven to eat more than he requires. Those with hypogonadism are often insulin resistant, suffer abdominal obesity and gain weight easily.
Frankly, Regina stated this in far more definitive terms than I would have chosen. Does he have hypogonadism? I do not know. But the point of the title of this post is that on some level, apparently, he does not care. He is seemingly in a constant search for answers with blinders and very deep shades on in a darkened room. He does not want to see. For the time being the NuttyK was working for weight loss -- nevermind the worsening lipids, the stubborn UTI he had early on, the protein and crystals in his urine or anything else. Mr. Healthy LC Diet was losing weight again.
She also wrote:
If nothing else, Jimmy is a prolific blogger - he's got websites, podcasts, YouTube videos, a forum, twitter and facebook - and this leaves us with a lot of information to ponder about his weight maintenance, gains and losses.
Yes he is. And for those that don't know, I have a freakish memory and I remember a lot. Especially numbers, images, dates, phrases, etc.etc.etc. I see, hear and write a lot. This reinforces it. This may come off as obsession when it is not. Jimmy used to blog daily about what he ate along with notes. Routinely discuss struggles and ask for advice. As he became more dogmatic and those offering advice kept giving him advice he didn't want to hear, he got mighty testy at times. I vividly recall him asking for thoughts on a topic and when someone responded with their thoughts they were rudely shot down with a "nobody asked you". I used to be one of those people who tried to help him. Others remember me. I remember them. Eventually, Jimmy just started censoring any "advice" he didn't like ... and the pot shot posts at his "nasty" critics started insinuating all manner of bad behavior. NEVER. HAPPENED.
Regina, one last time (in response to Jimmy's comment in a post to which she was responding to: "Was it the keto-adaptation or the calorie-cutting that has worked in producing the weight loss success I’ve seen? If you ask me, I say WHO CARES?!"):
Well, I care - not only about Jimmy as a person and friend, but also for those within the low-carb community, who despite doing everything seemingly right, fail to lose weight or gain and will do anything - even something extreme - to lose the weight.
So then, what has been going on?
What context might explain Jimmy's weight gains and losses?
And more importantly, why are those important considerations for anyone ready to jump on board the nutritional ketosis bandwagon and do what Jimmy's doing?
When Jimmy embarked on this extreme nutritional ketosis experiment seemingly everyone jumped on board. I know not everyone, but enough. Even a 100 lb perfectly healthy woman did. Thankfully she had the common sense to stop before she harmed herself. Three years ago now Jimmy went on an eggfast. The following year on his lead a woman engaged in one. Face went tingly, passed out. Stuff like that. I have highlighted here how SO many are stuck or weigh more than they ever did. How so many see their insulin sensitivity worsen, their body composition and fat distribution change unfavorably. For crying out loud one low carber had to cut her hair because too much was falling out -- and still she advocates for the "healthy" diet. There's more at stake than just money, but wasting money is enough of a bad thing, no?
I do NOT mock their looks or weight. I do NOT attack them personally. I DO think it is pertinent information that an advocate for a diet be honest in their delivery. If a diet is not working for you, you really have a lot of nerve promoting it to anyone. Period. That Jimmy Moore is too mired in dogma to alter his diet ... Well, many have tried. I may not have the friends Regina has in the LC community, but I do not want to see people potentially harm their health taking advice from charlatans ... even if many of those people don't particularly like me.
I provide my readers with the science here. I'll occasionally share *my opinion* and clearly state it as such for people to consider as they see fit. I think that on the whole Cholesterol Clarity will do far more harm than good and that it deserved at least one honest appraisal on its merits. Jimmy Moore can't even be honest with himself any more what is going on with his health and it is evident throughout the book and the quotes he chose so selectively to entwine with his biased narrative.
Original Publish Date: 12/18/12
I would like to give props and offer my support, though she probably doesn't really want it, to Regina Wilshire of Weight of the Evidence blog. By the time I had found the LC community in 2009, her blogging had apparently tapered off and I had not really come across much bearing her name other than the occasional picture. Oh ... and the post on Jimmy's now defunct and deleted menus blog identifying her as a "heavy low carber". It was that post that caused me to mention her in a post of my own (2011) addressing the topic, hence due to Jimmy's inclusion of her in his post, her name got included in mine. I also named a few of her low carbing friends, and the rest, as they say, is history. I hope in retrospect, some of these folks are able to see that I meant no harm or ill will in merely highlighting what I did. It's pretty obvious, to everyone except the low carbers it seems, that on the whole advocates of the lifestyle are more overweight or obese than advocates of other lifestyles.
Long before I started blogging, I questioned some of the theories about calories and how low carb diets work. If you hit a stall on LC and asked for advice circa 2009-10, you were likely advised that you weren't eating enough fat and/or calories. "Up the fat". Unless that is accompanied by further restriction of carbohydrate and/or the new demon-macro, protein, that advice is bound to fail, as most did. Sometimes a person would come on LLVLC, still considerably overweight, and list their menus, and wonder why they weren't losing weight. I would often counter the "up the fat" brigade and encourage the person to assess their caloric intake and adopt strategies to reduce it. And predictably I'd be shouted down about how I don't understand, etc.etc.etc. Look ... if you are eating a "clean" low carb diet and not losing weight, adding sticks of butter to the two broccoli florettes and eating even more bacon is not going to solve your problem.
For about 2-1/2 years I subscribed to Jimmy's menus blog in my reader. Anyone who even checked in on that blog from time to time knows how this man was always switching something up in his low carb diet. I remember the first few days/weeks of menus I read included a lunch of two- 8 oz burgers with mayo, cheese and a side salad drenched in ranch and usually some dessert. I did not know at the time he was struggling with regain -- this was not immediately available information. By that, I mean he didn't hide it, but Jimmy knows well that folks who participate on his forum don't necessarily follow his blog, and the then menus blog followers don't necessarily listen to the podcasts, and most podcast listeners have probably never even clicked on his blog. I was astounded at the amount of food he could eat and maintain his weight -- as the "About" on that menus blog claimed right on up to its closing in 2011.
I've stated many times, and I believe this more strongly now than ever, that Jimmy Moore has squandered more goodwill in the community than just about anyone I can think of. So much so, I think it is only the super fluid nature of relationships of such a community, coupled with the superficiality of internet relationships and his established presence, that allows him to even have a following at all. The few close friends are apparently too close to see it. With every bandwagon diet he jumped on, others followed. Jimmy is losing weight!! To which I would say, "So??" It is nothing new for Jimmy to lose weight. To lose it fast. And to gain it back just as, if not more, rapidly. But through it all, he would report the menus. From time to time he reported calories, but since he only ever estimated portions, this information was sketchy at best. His eggfest was successful because eggs and butter are fairly easy to portion and such, and he was eating as little as 1200 cals some days, and well under 2000 most days. I've said it a thousand times -- Jimmy doesn't have a broken metabolism. When he eats less he loses weight, when he eats more he gains. It is no mystery. I don't care if that keto-egg dish is only a once a day thing. Most of the women populating Jimmy's forum would gain weight eating like that. There's one woman I recall from my days there who has finally broken through a years long weight plateau to lose about 60 lbs. How? Well, by going VLC and ... eating 1000 cals/day.
Now looking back, it was in 2008 when Jimmy began his search for the "mysterious condition" that was causing his body to accumulate fat again, or for weight to be "coming onto his body". He went to Dr. Westman, he took Metformin. Readers encouraged him to go sweet free. He tried it. And you know what? Between that challenge and some calorie counting and portion control, he was back in the 230's in January of 2009. Every time he claims that his problems began in late 2007 with the rapid mysterious 25-35 lb gain he attributes to creatine, and that he was never able to shake those pounds, he is lying. L.y.i.n.g. And his presentation to the LCDU crowd in Australia, was utterly disingenuous as he portrayed his weight struggles as a few, couple, five kilos at a time creeping back on. That is NOT how it happened. And Regina pointed that out in her first post addressing Jimmy's blaming protein for his regains. And she states it more pointedly in her latest post: The Calorie Talk Taboo.
As I read the first parts of that, I started having flashbacks to participating at Jimmy's forum and the shout downs of any mention of calories. What's somewhat funny is that from time to time people would drag out the "calories count but we don't have to count them" meme. There's definitely a kneejerk pushback to mention of calories -- No! I did/do NOT eat too much! How dare you call me a glutton!! But as she points out -- and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this -- Jimmy Moore does eat a ton of food. I contend that he eats for reasons other than appetite that are being ignored, but let's presume he eats so much because he has an insatiable appetite. It would appear that for him (for now) this nuttyK is working to suppress that appetite. He eats only every 12 to 24 hours. But Regina raised the hormonal context of it all -- just not insulin.
It has come up in comments here of late that Jimmy might have Klinefelter's syndrome which is one cause of hypogonadism. Regina discusses this in her blog post. If one searches on either in Google images, there are pictures that could almost be Jimmy. As commenters have pointed out here, and Regina states, both the obvious features and the other health issues such as low testosterone and infertility and such point pretty strongly at this being the situation. If I were him, I would stop wasting money testing ketones and whatnot and either get tested and/or comprehensively treated for the hypogonadism you so clearly epitomize. How many times has Jimmy assured his audience that he would leave no stone unturned in his quest? Here's a search on hypogonadism and hyperlipidemia. Maybe there's a connection?
Now, in addition to the several comments here, I also received a few emails urging me to blog on this issue. Frankly, I imagine this condition is a bit uncomfortable to deal with, and since Jimmy sees me as a hater, I didn't see how my "going there" would be seen as anything but mean-spirited. However Regina is a friend of Jimmy's ... and she "went there". And he read it. And he linked to it on Facebook and I believe elsewhere. Here's the Facebook response:
Jimmy Moore · 5,097 like thisSaturday at 8:09am ·
"The Calorie Talk Taboo" from the "Weight Of The Evidence" blog:http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-calorie-talk-taboo.html ~ My low-carb blogging friend Regina Wilshire continues her pontificating about my nutritional ketosis n=1 experiment. It's good to see her blogging regularly again and I do appreciate her thoughts about my situation. However, I want to clarify a few things: I'm NOT taking testosterone anymore (haven't since March), I'm NOT actively cutting calories as part of my NK plan (although it's undoubtedly happening spontaneously in response to the satiety I've received from attaining proper ketone levels), I'm NOT eating lots of food and I'm NOT taking the berberine supplement right now (haven't since early November--so far so good on blood sugar control without it). Interesting theory about why I desire eating large meals that goes beyond being a glutton. Many of the comments at the end of this blog post are good for a laugh or two for their absurdity. I love all the assumptions that are made about me without anyone ever attempting to substantiate them as truth or not. You gotta love the Internet!
So, we learn that he's apparently no longer under the care of that internationally renowned physician who prescribed the testosterone ... or he's no longer taking the testosterone anyway. I can imagine he stopped in March because he was only gaining more weight eating his lacto-paleo diet with testosterone. But I can not imagine any doctor treating this man in a comprehensive fashion overlooking the obvious. So what exactly do all of these low carb doctors who have interacted with Jimmy think/say/do? The list is endless. From Eades to Eenfeldt to Briffa to Wortman (fertility guy) to Rosedale to Vernon to Davis to Westman to Kruse to Phinney to .... Medical doctor after medical doctor after medical doctor ... and in all these years not a one ever thought, ya know what? Perhaps it's hypogonadism! Really??? With my photographic memory, general inquisitiveness, and academic exposure (albeit not med school), I'm actually a bit embarrassed to admit that I never saw it. (Yes, I saw characteristics, didn't connect the dots).
But I post the FB comment because, you see, for now Jimmy will refer to Regina as "friend", but it's only a matter of time before the bus comes along for her. You see, she's "pontificating" -- and, yes, she got some facts in the timeline wrong. I think Regina is trying to do her part to turn around this Jimmy = LC = Jimmy trend before it is too late. I think it is too late. When the USS LC-Titanic sinks, hopefully it is clearer minds like hers emerging from the lifeboats to put forth a rational case for LC when it is warranted. Unfortunately this may involve cutting friendly ties, as the NMS folks are not likely to extend a hand off that lifeboat.
Now I've seen some older pics of Jimmy but they aren't too helpful regarding his current physical features. Where I'm going there is that I wonder if long term LC has exacerbated his low testosterone endocrinology/physiology. Only he knows the answer, but he needs to be asking himself and his doctors the question. Since he left a full time job with benefits, he's a cautionary example of patient-led a la carte medical care fueled by the rebel-without-a-clue mindset so prevalent in this community. What his labs and all indicated in 2005-6 vs. today, is that Jimmy Moore is NOT healthy at any size. He is clearly one of those people who needs to weigh less -- I'd say less than 200 lbs given his unequal fat distribution pattern -- to be metabolically healthy. He was close at 230-ish pounds. What his more recent labs tell us is that this man's health is not improving on all fronts. The higher in fat and lower in carbs he goes, the he resembles a man with familial hypercholesterolemia. Sure he's seeing some improvements in hemorrhoids and skin tags and your basic all around feel goodishness that comes with not lugging around 50-60 extra pounds -- not to mention the stress his weight issues have put on him due to his livelihood being so tightly tied to his weight.
So is it all about the weight loss then? Ain't that a 180, eh? He's back to doing what he needs to do to lose weight, however extreme, and damn the nightmarish LDL-P!! Well, I hope for his sake that this takes him down to a weight he needs to be at and this normalizes his metabolic profile. So far, not so good in that regard. But here's a couple of other things that stuck out at me.
1. The first comment on that FB page:
Sonya Michelle Jones Jimmy, I just can't bear to even go to that woman's site. She is bitter, uninformed and jealous of your success. It's too flinch inducing to try to read anything she writes.
That could have been written about me. Indeed that and worse have been. Wake up Sonya! Do you really believe Regina is bitter and jealous? Really?? Where do you get that in her writings?
Oh my! Our good buddy Gatewing with his slimataki pool noodles has weighed in! I left a comment, we'll see if Jimmy leaves it up! The comment points out that Adam Kosloff of Caloriegate and formerly How Low Carb Diets Work "fame" actually wrote a post on hypogonadism. Now isn't that a funny coincidence?! Does Kosloff remember that and urge Jimmy not to brush off Regina's "interesting theory" about why he eats so much? No. He takes pot shots at the "calorie wizards" with yet another ridiculous experiment to prove what has already been shown in metabolic wards. ZIP IT? Wow, does Adele Hite know her Outreach Chair is such an asshat? I'm still waiting for the apology and explanation for his bashing me on his last podcast with Jimmy. Give me a break. And for the record, no, it is not those who believe in CICO who need to prove anything, the onus is on you to explain why getting fat is just like growing my hair or a horizontal growth disorder just like gigantism is a vertical growth disorder ... or whatever other magic beans and fairy dust you're passing off as science these days.
There's some good coming of all of this. It seems that increasing numbers are able to air their disenchantment with Jimmy free from the stranglehold censorship he wields on his site. More and more, low carbers are coming around to acknowledging calories. You see bloggers and such actually advising folks to assess intake and .... eat less! The sad part is that after long stretches of adherence to LC, that "less" is a whole lot less than what one considered "starvation" back in their LF days. I've seen a 250ish pound woman break a years long weight stall to lose 60 lbs by eating 1000 and even under that a day and doing her BBS for 30 seconds a week (yes that's exaggerated for effect). What awaits her a year from now? Then there's the case of a 5'8" 185 lb man who can only eat 1400 cal/day or he'll gain. These may seem like outliers but I've seen it many many times. Jimmy is taking up collections to have tests run. Perhaps we should have one taken up to commission an evaluation of his metabolic rate. It would be interesting to compare it to 7 years ago.
But the bottom line here is that Jimmy isn't really interested in getting to the bottom of anything. If he were, he'd respond differently to posts like Regina's. And he's not making any new friends or even keeping old ones by lashing out at those who follow him and dare to comment! I mean he posts updates, tweets, FB, etc.etc. Encourages others to prick and grease up, etc. But if anyone follows too closely, and God forbid they criticize, then "what's it to them", they shouldn't care, they are just being mean and whatnot. Bull and sheet. You can't have it both ways Jimmy.