JimKKKins: The Saga of Jimmy Moore and David Duke

Random Replay:

I had just recently updated this post to put the summary and links but didn't think it was necessary to bump.  As far as I was concerned, this whole sad saga was in the past, and the members of the paleo and low carb communities spoke with their actions, for better or worse.  Newbies will find it pinned on the sidebar as the most popular post here ... not exactly sure what that means in the end.  I still can't for the life of me figure out why people continue to promote this guy, but to each their own.    Just they can't say they didn't know ... and Jimmy can't claim to be wrongfully accused ... and I still think the Paleo community could learn a thing or two from the Paula Deen story ... 

But then this past week,  Jimmy Moore is at it again bringing up this issue.  Why I have no idea, because one would think he would rather this faded away into the archives.  But in a really strange turn of events, Joe Salama of The Paleo Movement interviewed Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse:  Jimmy Moore and Jack Kruse discuss controversy within the Paleo community.  

This is quite odd in and of itself (as I noted in the comments there that Joe graciously published) although they were not interviewed together.  But last I checked there weren't many who even acknowledge Kruse was ever in the paleo community let alone still a part of it.  But put him with Jimmy after the LC Cruise 2012 debacle?  Seriously?  If anyone doesn't know by now, Jack was denied passage on the cruise because someone named "Lance" emailed or called Carnival to alert them of a suspicious spoof tweet about a bioterrorism attack.  Kruse went on television and threatened me with the FBI when it is obvious in retrospect that his version of events was a culmination of many lies.  You can read that whole sorted saga beginning here and chronologically newer posts.  It also ties us to the other controversy with Robb Wolf, who lied repeatedly about me and our relationship such as it was.  This post may be worth a read.

But beyond putting Jack and Jimmy together again, the interview elicited this bizarre response from Jimmy in response to the question "What role does controversy have in the Paleo Movement?" ...
Controversy is the cancer that can tear apart any emerging movement faster than anything else. Most of the “controversy” that I’ve seen in the paleo community in the past few years is just plain petty. We’ve got a world chock full of people who are being given horrific dietary and lifestyle advice from the mainstream authorities on health and we’re debating things like whether Jimmy Moore is a neo-Nazi because he did an interview about his story on a radio show by a guy he’d never even heard of before…? Come on people, we’re better than this. I get that some people hate me for whatever their reasons, but they are the great minority.
Jimmy has now kicked it up a notch to having never heard of David Duke?  Sorry, that dog won't hunt or whatever cliche you want to use.  Nobody hates you.  Nobody has mentioned this in a while, so you bring it up again now to divert attention from your continual lying.  I do not use that term lightly.  It simply is.  He has lied repeatedly over the past year or so ... about how his weight just crept back on 15 lbs or so a year.  How he hadn't weighed under 250 lbs for 5 years when he had weighed less than that, however briefly as recently as Spring 2011.  And most recently when he repeatedly told McDougall that he was at his lowest weight in his adult life (when he has weighed as little as 215 for around a month or so at least twice since Atkins).  About his cholesterol levels in his book even!

So since he mentioned the David Duke stuff, yeah, in light of his continued lies about his health and weight (why I don't know, since it is all a matter of public record on his blog) ... I think this was worth a bump.

And for the record, JimKKKins is a perfectly apt play on words type nickname incorporating both the Kimkins and David Duke references.  Nobody is too busy to do a Google search before going on someone's radio program.  Nobody.  And nobody is too busy not to read the About page on a website they are linking to from their blog.  Or they shouldn't be linking.  In a pinch his wife Christine could have done that legwork for him.  NO EXCUSES.

Summary: (August 2013)

I want to keep this post pinned as it contains the most information.  At this point it reads in quite disjointed fashion.  So I'm summing this up and feel free to wade through the rest.  Please forgive that there is some repetition of images and content.

On Dec. 7, 2012, Jimmy Moore knowingly appeared as a guest on the David Duke radio program.  He announced this on Facebook 
There is absolutely no doubt that Jimmy Moore knew who David Duke is/was ... the "infamous" former KKK Grand Wizard.  There is no other "infamous" David Duke.  On Dec. 22, 2012, Jimmy Moore included a link to David Duke's blog in his "36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012".  He was challenged in his comments section about this: (saved from feed)

by Rian Yyrkah
Jimmy Moore removed David Duke from his list of “36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012,” but the internet remembers. It makes his meek proclamations that “All we talked about was high-fat, low-carb eating and people think I’m associating with this guy’s political views. I don’t get it.” seem pathetic given that he was sending people to a site that endorses racist anti semitic views.
image from Paleodrama

You’re a fan of David Duke?
by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.
by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.

Then the web community caught wind, and Jimmy Moore rushed to delete the incriminating evidence.  By Dec. 29th, Jimmy fired back with a post entitled "If I’m A Neo-Nazi, Then I Guess Dr. William Davis And Dr. Doug McGuff Are Too?" referring to early 2012 appearances by the aforementioned docs on Duke's radio program.    The fact that he had exchanged emails and visited Duke's site and reviewed some of the material there make his situation different than these other two.  I have written separately about this in The REAL JimKKKins Scandal: Dr. William Davis, Dr. Doug McGuff and "Dr." David Duke , The JimKKKins Trio: What did they know, When did they know it, and Does it Matter? , and William "Wheat Belly" Davis agreed to interview with David Duke personally.   I leave it to anyone reading any of this to draw their own conclusions and conduct their business and personal affairs as they see fit.  Just don't claim that you were uninformed, because the information is out there.    Some of this was summarized by someone who was intimately involved in outing Jimmy's prior connections to a scandalous character named Heidi Diaz, aka Kimmer of the Kimkins diet and website.  You might be interested in reading When You Lie in Plain Sight.

In his point-the-finger at others non-apology, Jimmy claimed to not even know what a neo-Nazi was, and yet he accused those of us who were bringing the information to the public of engaging in "Gestapo tactics (ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s) ".  When realizing this conflicted with his Sargent Shultz impersonation Jimmy quickly scrubbed that from his website as well.

This is Jimmy's modus operandi.  Censor, delete, lie and blame others.  He did it in 2007 with the Kimkins debacle and he repeated it five years later with the David Duke fiasco.    I shared some dust-settled-a-bit thoughts in:  More thoughts on the KKKonfederacy of Dunces

Last updated 12/31/12
QUICK UPDATE:  If I've missed anything (Twitter, FB, blogs, etc.), feel free to post in comments here or email me:  carbsane at gmail dot com.  Remember if it's on the web, save it!  Screenshots are a wonderful thing, I like to get the URL in the frame.  

Update Log:  I plan to add to this post to keep as many things in one place as I can.  I also apologize in advance for not getting to as many comments as I'd like.  I'll put a little log up here and a character string you can search on to skip to the new content.   Original publish date/time 12/29/12  6:44am EST

  • Added 12/31  Changing Apologies (search on that)
  • Audio Part 1 added ~9pm 12/31  (search on Audio)

I am planning to do an audio about this, because I don't think this translates with full impact in the written form.  However I'm throwing together a post to put a bunch of things in the same place as concerns Jimmy Moore and his defense and cover-up concerning his appearance on the radio show of one notorious white supremacist, David Duke.  I will not call him Doctor.

I realize that David Duke is a bit of a has-been in US politics, but he's far from an unknown character.  I'd absolve the younger crowd and international readers from recognizing that one straight away, but there are enough American readers/listeners/participants at Jimmy's various outlets to recognize a true hater when they see the name.  At right is a screenshot of a quick Google search, and here's his Wiki page.  {I'm putting all images in "small", you can click on them to view full size}

All one really needs to know about Duke is that he is a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.   Jimmy Moore refers to him as Dr. David Duke, which in nutritional circles might lead his readers/listeners to believe he's an MD or PhD in a related field.  You can read about Duke's PhD here, with the thesis title: Zionism as a Form of Ethnic Supremacism.  Once rebuffed by the electorate, Duke has spent more recent years spreading the "good word" about the global Jewish conspiracy involving the media, Hollywood, and, well, pretty much anyone and anything not white.  

David Duke has apparently listened to a podcast or two of the LLVLC show.  Not enough to know the truth about his invited guest, but enough to realize that the show had a following and it would be good for his show to get a bunch of hits from Jimmy's vast listenership.  So he invited Jimmy on.  I don't know if by email or phone, matters not.  Jimmy Moore turned 41 the other day.  That's old enough to have heard of David Duke, especially living in the South as he does.  He knew damn well the background and beliefs of the host of the show he went on.  

On Dec. 7 (Pearl Harbor day, ironically) , Jimmy was the guest of David Duke.  He announced this on his discussion forum (dead link) and on Facebook.  I've uploaded a PDF printout of the now-deleted discussion.  What is most troubling to me, however is that neither of these announcements generated much if any response at the time.  As of this post, the FB post remains, though the conversation on the discussion forum has been expunged.  Just in case,  the screenshots are below.

I've C&P's this part of the FB exchange full-size because this will be important later.

So Jimmy offers a flippant "Yep" ... no big deal ... and it would be five days before another response.  This is Jimmy Moore's FB which tells me one of two things.  Either a lot of people don't bother following him on FB despite the numbers, or his circle there is so blinded by ketones to even register all that's wrong here!  Even now, I'm with last commenter Joe there.  Here we were just over 2 weeks since the appearance before anyone really caught on to this when Jimmy Moore linked to David Duke's website in his 36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012.  Don't bother going to the link now, he's removed it.    Here's the PDF Printout.  Yes, he's stealthily, replaced #14 with a different blog.  Where's Lustig with his phweeeeeet noises for sweeping things away?   Ahh, but it's been saved by far too many people for Jimmy to hide from this.  

I am going to admit that when I first saw the name I didn't think much, other than what an unfortunate name for a paleo or LC peep to have.  Then I thought ... naaah ... surely if there was such a person they would know their name association and name their blog differently.  Nope, it's "the infamous" one alright.  Jimmy then published and responded to two comments inquiring about the link before deleting them.  
by Rian Yyrkah
You’re a fan of David Duke?
Jimmy Moore removed David Duke from his list of “36 New Paleo, Low-Carb & Health Blogs For December 2012,” but the internet remembers. It makes his meek proclamations that “All we talked about was high-fat, low-carb eating and people think I’m associating with this guy’s political views. I don’t get it.” seem pathetic given that he was sending people to a site that endorses racist anti semitic views.
image from Paleodrama
by LLVLCBlog
His nutrition stuff is spot on.
by Diana Moon
David Duke is a neo-Nazi. Because you agree with him about nutrition, you link to him?

by LLVLCBlog
He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me.
That last response was the first I'd heard of the radio show appearance ... little did I know it had been a long done deal.   Below are screenshots of Duke's website yesterday.  Oh yeah, there's an article about Vitamin D the LLVLKarb audience might be interested in.  



It would have been bad enough for Jimmy to link to a nutrition page on this hate-site, but none exists.  So this was the content Jimmy was recommending to his readers.

UPDATE:  Apparently cached links do indeed to to a nutrition page on the hate-site.  My recollection is that when mousing over the David Duke link it was only to his website, no category.  So I stand corrected that Jimmy didn't link to the front page.  Phew.  That takes him off the hook?  Not so fast.  Below are screenshots of what one would have seen yesterday if they followed his link.


As you can see, the header and sidebar linking to Duke's hatespew remain intact.  So I see this as a distinction without a difference.  It's not a "clean" nutrition page.  And there's this "nutrition" story (screenshot upper right):  The Great Porn Experiment - One More Devastating Jewish Globalist Influence and How to Overcome It!   Yeah, it's only one, towards the top of the page.  Jimmy didn't see that one, right?   {end UPDATE}

This goes beyond his usual lack of vetting for linked blogs.  Some months he's linked to long defunct blogs, and yours truly once made the list ;-)  .  But one wonders why on earth he would send readers to this website?  So then he resorted to playing dumb on FB and Twitter.

paleodrama image link

What, who me?  And now, he's claiming he had no idea who David Duke was.  Really.  Loathe as I am to link to FTA, link I must, because Nikoley has weighed in to set us "hand wringers" straight:
Jimmy is guilty of one thing: being successful enough in what he does as nearly a one man show—without staff to vet everything, so he never gets pwned—that he's perfectly susceptible to this sort of thing. I myself have given a bunch of written and podcast interviews. I've checked peripherally to see who was requesting, but not very thoroughly. This could have happened to me, had I not already known who that guy is.
It gets better:
Incidentally, I have direct confirmation from Jimmy that he had no idea who that guy was, what he was all about. He also sent me the link he had linked up—but has since taken down—and except for one questionable title in about a dozen or so, all titles of posts are what you would see in any typical Paleo or LC blog.
Yeah, it's not like Nikoley hasn't been duped before.  Oh but he sees nothing out of the ordinary at the Duke website.  Ha.   Jimmy had no idea who the guy was?  

Look, Jimmy has a huge audience and with that audience comes some responsibility.  If (and not being a gullible person I don't for a minute) one believes Jimmy didn't know who he was dealing with, that doesn't get him off the hook.  He should have by the time people asked.  From a simple Google search.  Actually, he knew what he was all about from his own conversations with him on the radio program.   I know many don't want to listen, I myself have only made it about two-thirds of the way through it.  But here is a link to the MP3 that won't give Duke any hits, and here are four minutes I will be including in my audio on this issue.  Duke begins his program with a monologue and discusses his beliefs in the interview with Jimmy.  Jimmy is not that stupid folks.  He knew full well all along who David Duke was, is and forever shall be.  

Screenshot from Google Images
original image link
How ironic Jimmy and his followers call me a hater.  Amy Dungan even made them the tee shirts!  Who would have thought Jimmy was talking about David Duke!

For the record, I don't believe Jimmy is a neo-Nazi or a white supremacist or any of that.  I don't think he was doing any recruiting or anything like that by going on Duke's show or linking to his blog.  There's a reason for that.  Duke is the kiss of death.  And for good reason.  So we're left asking ourselves "what was he thinking?"

Jimmy doesn't get a pass on this one.  These pictures say it all.   He's a public figure.  Even right wing political bloggers won't link to David Duke or go on his show.  Those who do are the pariahs of polite society that Duke himself is.  You can't just ignore the essence of David Duke because his "nutrition info" is spot on.  For crying out loud he can't even repeat words like phytoestrogens (he called them photoestrogens) or pronounce ecstacy correctly.   The podcast wasn't much about low carb and getting the message out.   Look at this another way.  What benefit to the low carb he claims to love would having David Duke as an advocate be?  What benefit to society would there be in improving the health of  his listeners/followers?  This was wrong to do, but Jimmy did it anyway.  You have to ask yourself why?

But it's not even about that anymore, it's about Jimmy being Jimmy in response to this.  What matters (yet again) is that he got caught.  Just like when he finally got caught after promoting Heidi Diaz' Kimkins scam and wrote a mea culpa.  Jimmy walked away with thousands of dirty dollars from that one.  He's up to the same tricks now, and he has been at it for a good long time.  He needs to come out and publicly denounce David Duke.  This is hard to do because this time he can't expunge the most damning evidence -- his own words on a recording he has no control over the distribution of.  When Duke inserted politics into the discussion Jimmy doesn't even sound uncomfortable, let alone challenge him or try to steer the conversation off media politics.  He also told a few more whoppers, but heck, what's a few lies when you're already destroying your credibility by yucking it up with a Grand Wizard while he's describing you as somewhat of a wizard yourself?!

And what is up with the low carb community?  What?  Nothing about this from his friends?  From other low carbers?  I mean so what if this man is a vile neo-Nazi, right?  Nutrition transcends politics and religion?  Really?  So what other low carbing radicals are out there?  Louis Farakhan?   I thought a lot of you were Christians, I read about it all the time on your blogs and such.   Is it all OK because you wouldn't want to hurt the movement?  You'll give Jimmy a pass on this?  Wake up!  If he was truly in the dark about Duke, the 5 minutes or so leading in should have had Duke met with a dial tone.  That Jimmy is digging in his heels while playing dumb tells us this was not an honest mistake.  He did it for a reason, I just don't think it's that he's a sympathizer.

I think the time for a sincere denouncement of Duke has passed.  Jimmy's first reaction was as it always is.  Delete, distract and hope it disappears.   What he's left with now is a VERY narrow window of escape if he's unequivocal enough in denouncing David Duke.  I don't think he should be let out of that window, but that's not for me to decide.   

Jimmy Moore will be ramping up a new season of Ask the LC Experts come January.  Will he have experts?  There will be Low Carb Conversations ... will he have a co-host?  Guests?  There will be future LLVLC Shows to record.  Will folks be willing?  Will anyone be asking Jimmy to take their name off the blogroll?  Who will be on board when the LC Cruise sails in May?  Will Jimmy's blog remain on the blogrolls of others? Will people sell their products on his sites?  The response to this will be pivotal in terms of the credibility of this community moving forward.

It's kind of a no-brainer what should happen when someone purposefully chooses to associate with someone like David Duke.  Let's see if it does.  Hopefully this JimKKKins scandal only claims one victim.   That would be a vast improvement on all of those he duped into the Kimkins scam.  Only the community can determine if it claims more.  

Changing Apologies

There have been some excellent comments on the nature of Jimmy Moore's excusefest.  You think he'd learn by now that a simple apology where one accepts responsibility and moves on with the promise not to make the mistake again.  But this isn't what Jimmy did, he instead started blaming others, myself included, for his woes.  I'm still working on an audio.  It didn't help that I was recording a recipe thing for non-drama purposes here yesterday when my laptop battery fell out and I lost the whole thing before it auto-saved.  Ah well, such is life.  It was brought to my attention that -- in his usual fashion -- Jimmy Moore has updated his apology w/o acknowledging it.  Good thing I saved the original.  

The original paragraph:
So I’ve gotta ask one simple question: if there is guilt by association as has been heaped upon me heavily this week for daring to appear on the radio show of someone being described as a neo-Nazi, then I guess using that exact same logic would require you to believe that both Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff are neo-Nazis too? Surely you jest. None of these people has said a peep over the past ten months since both of them were interviewed on that exact same program and this simply exposes the bigger agenda at play here. The primary objective of the people spreading these lies about me is to try to make me look bad, create this distorted image of me in the low-carb and Paleo communities, call for a boycott of my podcast and other such Gestapo tactics (ironically similar to the ones used by the official secret police of Nazi Germany in the 1930′s) as a means of preventing me from continuing to blog, do podcasts, write books and all the other work I do helping others get quality information about weight loss and health.
Has been replaced by:
So I’ve gotta ask one simple question: if there is guilt by association as has been heaped upon me heavily this week for daring to appear on the radio show of someone being described as a neo-Nazi, then I guess using that exact same logic would require you to believe that both Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff are neo-Nazis too? Surely you jest. None of these people has said a peep over the past ten months since both of them were interviewed on that exact same program and this simply exposes the bigger agenda at play here. The primary objective of the people spreading these lies about me is to try to make me look bad, create this distorted image of me in the low-carb and Paleo communities, call for a boycott of my podcast as a means of preventing me from continuing to blog, do podcasts, write books and all the other work I do helping others get quality information about weight loss and health.
For a self-described mental midget, Jimmy sure is a quick study on all the Nazi lingo fit to smear with. What's next Jimmy?  Brown shirt references?  

screenshot link
The only one lying about Jimmy Moore is the person he sees in the reflection on his computer screen.  Yes, for months now he has repeatedly lied about himself to his audience.  And funny he should mention distorted images ;-)   I don't know why he would lie to people about his weight, but he does.  In Australia he described his weight gains over the years as slow and steady.  For months now he's been repeating the claim that he hasn't weighed less than 250 in five years.  Yet on April 20, 2011, he weighed 248.2.  

But whatever ....

At right is a funny Twitter exchange I cobbled together for you from screenshots I received.  The witchhunt nonsense is precious.  

Here's the interesting part.  Many are upset at Jimmy for throwing Dr. William Davis and Dr. Doug McGuff under the bus for also appearing on David Duke's radio program.  It seems that McGuff was truly duped.  I'm copying from comments to the root post, a comment he left on FTA.

"Here is how it went down with me. My manager at Ultimate Exercise was contacted multiple times asking me for an interview. Dr. Duke described himself as a history professor at the American University in England. He stated that he conducted interviews that were used as content at various high quality websites and blogs. He billed himself as a supplier of content for news sites, and blogs and that he focused on cutting-edge content relating to politics, science and economics. I told my manager that I would not give an interview until I could see examples of his work. He provided links to a few interviews and articles at various websites that gave no indication of anything untoward. I agreed to do the interview. I did not find out I had granted an interview with THE Dr. David Duke until a few weeks later when someone I had done a consult with about a year prior, left a voicemail saying how much he enjoyed the interview and gave the name of the website. My wife and I were on the way to pick the kids up from school when I got this phone call. My wife was driving, so I looked up the website on my i-Phone. When I figured out what had happened, I felt like I was going to puke.
Oddly, he was one of the best interviewers I have ever encountered, and the interview went very well. When the interview actually appeared, it was preceded by an introduction where Dr. Duke stated that the interview was done without me actually knowing his full identity. He said this was done so as not to bias my answers or make me uncomfortable. That may have been his intent, but had I had full knowledge of who he was, I would have declined the interview.
However, the responsibility of due diligence is mine, and I must accept responsibility for this screw-up. If my being interviewed by this man has offended anyone, I deeply apologize. I apologize to my co-author John Little, I apologize to my wife and children, and all others who have affiliated with me or supported me along the way."
I would note that there was no such preamble in Jimmy's interview. They also discussed some politics during his interview.  I would be curious what front websites Duke sent McGuff to to dupe him.  I await Davis' denouncement of Duke as well as his full explanation for his appearance on the program.   Something doesn't sit right here with me about McGuff's explanation, but he's owning to his mistakes and deserves kudos for that.  He apparently knew who THE David Duke was, but did an interview with A David Duke given apparently nebulous background.  Is this guy a low carber?  If so, I'm beginning to think we have to add spontaneous transient mental malfunctions to the list of negative side effects of the diet.  

I've got to copy this comment from Jimmy's excusology.  This woman needs a clue!

Elenor Snow  
"I just figured you did not see a problem"
Why-oh-why is it a "problem" to be interviewed by ANYone about nutrition? Geez, all these folks screaming and ranting -- it was an interview ABOUT LOW CARB! There was *nothing else* discussed. If all you Christians ACTUALLY believe in "love the sinner, hate the sin" (or whatever other platitudes you pretend to live your lives by), then whoEVER on the globe interviews Jimmie about low carb -- Jimmie is perfectly FINE giving an interview to! I'm ... disgusted... by all the sturm-und-drang about this. (I'm dismayed at Jimmie having to or choosing to 'crawl' about "oooh, I made a mistake!" No dammit -- it is (or it should be in America!) *perfectly* acceptable for anyone to speak to anyone about low carb and health.) 
Dr. Oz has probably actually, physically, harmed way more folks with HIS views than David Duke has, no matter how distasteful! Don't see anyone screaming about Oz!

Umm ... Elenor, you should actually listen to the interview before you make claims. Plenty more was discussed besides low carb. And even on that nutrition page, there is enough to know there's something not right about this man. As of this posting, Jimmy can't be bothered to respond to this.  It is apparently fine with him that someone suggested on his site that Oz is a more harmful man than Duke.  Sickening.


OK gang, I had some other plans in mind for sharing this, etc.  It's kind of "raw", and if I had a lot of time I'd break this up into parts and organize it a bit better.  But this is a serious issue and timely dissemination of facts is more important than polish.   I'll do my best to get video up and screenshots on a "podcast blog", but for now I hope this will do.  I'm not entirely happy with how agitated I sound in parts, but fuck it.  Yeah that's right, I cursed.  This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.  Jimmy Moore is lying to save his butt and there are people thinking that it's OK to go on David Duke's program so long as you are spreading the good word.  It is all so wrong on so many levels I can't even express it.  The memes and other funny stuff make the disgusting events just a little more tolerable but not much.  So, without further delay, here's Part I.  More to follow ...  {Note:  as things progressed, it just didn't seem worth my time to pursue this project, so there never was a video or any other followup.  Listen if you want to there's nothing really different here, it's just my delightful voice ;-)  }

Hosted by Kiwi6 file hosting.


Diana said…
This is good news indeed. I had originally thought that the big name in this was Jimmy Moore - and in the LC internet world, he is. But doctors have a special place in our society, and to the outside world, they are the ones that matter. If their involvement in this sordidness is exposed, there may well be repercussions. We shall see.
Unknown said…
Guyenet quote in context:

Your liver (and pancreas) doesn't see percentages of anything, it sees an absolute mass of carbohydrate (in this case 70g). It's ridiculous to play to percentage game here.

If you did a 24 hour fast, broken only by a spoonfull of glucose (5g) then your diet would be 100% carbohydrate, but it would still be VLC.

I'm using an absolute number. You're crunching it into a percentage.
Unknown said…
David Duke is a foul piece of shit, I hope he dies of some horrible painful type of cancer. Preferably of the testicles.

Comparing LCHF/Paleo to the Hitlet Youth diminishes the holocaust, and is much worse than anything Jimmy has done in accidently appearing on a Nazi's podcast.

I'm not trying to sell LC dogma to anyone, I said a few times that their are several methods of diabetic control. I'm simply responding to questions in this thread by describing my (considerable) experience. I'm sorry if you find the truth offensive.

I Eat Real Food said…
You really need to do some research to get the back story of Jimmy Moore. That Duck above was instrumental in outing the fraud, but really, Jimmy's history in it is still all over the internet if you google around.

This was his so-called apology back in 2007:

Why was he in Missouri? Who is in Missouri?

There a lots of details out there on the internet:


Google is your friend. He finally capitulated in 2007 because of intense pressure.
CarbSane said…
You had me until that last line. Carbohydrates are not inherently bad. Period. I don't know your diabetes cause (I write a lot here about how the disease is too really many diseases that are lumped together because of the end symptom of hyperglycemia, but not all diabetes is the same by a long shot), but many not only do better on high carb, but thrive.
I Eat Real Food said…
And the pressure wasn't from the low-carber community of dieters, it was from those who matter. Pressure them, not those who post online in forums, it's the bigger guns you need to target to get them to listen and slap Jimmy again!
CarbSane said…
Thanks for that link MissusF and welcome! McGuff's apology was well composed and the "right kind" but as I thought on it here and there throughout the day, there was just this nagging. I'm not buying that he did not know, and if he was duped I'm not buying he just let that go without response until now that Jimmy threw him under the bus.
I Eat Real Food said…
Also, his blog and the CarbSmart site are being heavily moderated. You're only seeing what he (they) want you to see, so the criticism getting through is only limited to what he'll (they'll) accept as valid criticism that Jimmy can counter with his good 'ol southern boy charm.
CarbSane said…
Hi IERF! I have done a lot of research and have probably read most of that. Please do help me out here and name the bigger guns who should be slapping him. I am just getting the information out there. I'm not really in a position to pressure people ... more like shame them I suppose. I very much appreciate Ducky's contributions here too.
CarbSane said…
Thanks Diana. Not much more to say to Stephen. Finding humor in stupidity in no way diminishes my appreciation of the seriousness of this issue. It's the LC community that largely does not.
CarbSane said…
Stephen I didn't say that. Move on, eh? The truth is Jimmy knew exactly what he was doing and he is lying to cover up getting caught at it. Simple as that. Your defense of him is truly offensive.
CarbSane said…
I think most readers here are aware of Komment Kontrol as it's been dubbed. The problem is newbies see all the positives. So what does a person do? I speak out routinely. I feel it's a duty in a way to share when I know of wrongdoing to warn others. I wish more would, though I'm heartened to see there are still folks around who remember KK. I only learned of it afterwards (never got sucked into Jimmy's crap) but I've linked to that mea culpa many times. It is kinda chilling some of the similarities.
Diana said…
@Stephen, I'm done with you, you are hopeless. I've already repeated the facts and you stubbornly refuse to see them, so have a good life in the Church of Low Carb.

@Evelyn: Yes, nothing left to say that hasn't been said a thousand times and the dittoheads just repeat the party line. But that link below gives me hope. Jimmy doesn't have a reputation in the real world to protect, but Drs. Davis and McGuff do, and I am certain that they understand the seriousness of this. You should look at the link, because it has screenshots of Duke's newsfeed (I think that's what it is called), and to see what these interviews are sandwiched between is sickening. They are gonna have to answer for this.

Oh well, Happy New Year!!
I Eat Real Food said…
Rumor has it that the big guns way back then were the researchers, the organizations behind the scenes, and prominent bloggers who were all giving him the boot to conferences, links, etc. He needs those people more than they need him, without them he will fade, as he almost did back in 2007. He had an audience back then too, and it was the thought of losing those he needed, which in time would trickle to his audience that he woke up. Something happened in Missouri, I don't know what, but he was there and that's where he saw the light. Who's there? I don't know, but I want to figure it out.

The big guns I'd say are Feinman, Westman, Volek, Phinney, Wolf, Taubes, Vernon, etc.; folks whose livelihood depends on low-carb and/or paleo being seen in a good way in the media. This is bad news for all of them since it's not just Jimmy, but also Davis (who took time to bring on board) and McGuff too. It's a scandal!
I Eat Real Food said…
I don't think he wrote it. The style is not how he writes now or back then.
Unknown said…
Well done to you all!
I Eat Real Food said…
Jimmy was being disinvited to things in 2007 and having his links removed left and right as Ducky kept turning up the heat on the fraud. Jimmy caved because he was going to go down in flames and lose it all, and also probably find himself in the lawsuit that was initiated if he'd remained an affiliate and not distance himself very quickly.
I Eat Real Food said…
Go back through the history and parallel the same damn things he's doing again. Removing links, removing comments (and back then changing them, so who knows now?), calling everyone haters, jealous, etc.
I Eat Real Food said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
I Eat Real Food said…
We're still around Ducky!
Unknown said…
"Thanks Diana. Not much more to say to Stephen. Finding humor in stupidity in no way diminishes my appreciation of the seriousness of this issue. It's the LC community that largely does not."

Comparing LCHF's to the Hitler Youth isn't humour. The holocaust isn't funny (although Jimmy's "friend" David Duke probably thinks it is).

As soon as you compare anyone to "Hitler" or the "Nazis" then you lose the argument by Godwin's law. But then by those standards, you'd lost it at the first post.
CarbSane said…
So this is the second time (well in this subthread) that you've demonstrated impaired reading comprehension. I didn't say what you're saying, and it wasn't intended to be funny. Get off your high horse and realize nobody here is saying the holocaust was funny. In fact I'm saying it's not being taken seriously enough with this "no biggie" that not only did Jimmy, but two MD's with mainstream books appear on the radio program of a notorious racist. Does the word *inflammatory* mean funny to you? Saying that might be inflammatory (if someone were hypothetically to start making the comparison) but it is where this is headed with the silence and rationalizing going on.
Unknown said…
FFS. So calling someone a "troll" is not an ad hominem attack?

CarbSane said…
I don't think he gets much from NMS conferences and such. He's moved on to the paleo community and the Tony Robbins-style gatherings.

Feinman has already weighed in that he thinks it's a virtue Jimmy didn't know who Duke was. I'm afraid I sent him a snarky email (since I had it from some early discussions courtesy of Fred Hahn) so that probably won't get the job done ;-) Folks can contact him on his blog I suppose. I don't think Westman is a factor at all. Volek & Phinney? What are they going to do? Tell him not to mention their books? Taubes and Jimmy have been on the outs since he pulled out of LC Cruise 2012. Taubes hasn't needed Jimmy since Mr. Moneybags came along. Vernon has moved on to a more cosmetics based business and again NMS is not something folks ever seemed to care much about. Which leaves Wolf, who I know reads this blog, and Jimmy is dropping his name like crazy as headlining LC Cruise 2013. I plan to contact him. Here's the list of people expected to appear:


My my Fat Head has been unusually silent.
river rance said…
Excellent find! I retweeted the article from their site hope others do too. IMHO I don't think these 2 MD's appreciate being "outed" and thrown under the bus for Jimmy Moore's weak/sniveling defense of going on David Dukes radio show(their defense if any isn't better). It was so far under the radar for those 2 then Moore's 20pt bold headline….man. And wouldn't one think that, if he did this to them, the he'll do that to me to save his skin. I can't believe Robb Wolf is still going on the LCC, a lot of credibility at stake for him and really Moore has nothing to offer these days. I'm guessing Wolf has never been on a cruise and here's a chance to get a "free cruise". Indirectly for RW it will probably be a very expensive cruise, cause Jimmy "name drops" him Ad nauseam as well as others. Distance from Moore at this time would probably be a good idea.
river rance said…
Wanted this under the MissusF post. My mistake. Sorry.
Alex said…
"My my Fat Head has been unusually silent."

Might possibly have something to do with the fact that it's the holiday season, and he's traveling with his family.
Diana said…
@anotherdeadletter: Give up on this POS. He's a troll. One of the great things about this website is the level of the exchanges and the openness to dialogue. You cannot dialogue with a troll. This is the nature of the Church of Low Carb, expressed neatly by Eddie: "no one is healthy on a diet of carbs/sugar." Ignore the experience of the Pima, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Kitavans, the Okinawans, the Greeks (200 fasting days a year, plant-based diet).

Forget about Stephen, he's worthless and not very bright. He comes on this blog saying, "Why are you Yanks so upset that Jimmy consorted with a racist? You're country is full of them. You can hardly take a walk outside without running into the white hoods and there are lynched blacks hanging from every elm tree." Then he grotesquely caricatures what Evelyn and everyone else here says, and keeps saying it repeatedly. It's not my blog but if it were I'd ban his arse. It's a tribute to Evelyn's intellectual honesty that she doesn't.

ADL: The most revealing thing that Jimmy said is this, and I'l repeat it because I know that you are listening and reading: "He invited me on his radio show and his nutrition thoughts are on target with the low-carb message. What he believes outside of diet and health doesn’t really matter to me."

Obviously he realizes that wasn't the right thing to say, it doesn't further his message, because he scrubbed it.

But we have the screen shots. We know what he wrote, and any reasonable human being (which pointedly excludes Mr. Dittohead Ferguson) can see this. The world isn't made up of low carb dupes and chumps.

Also, Twitter isn't a personal Jimmy Moore endeavor, and he can't remove the part where he blew off the person who asked him, "THAT David Duke" with a flippant: "Yep."

ADL - stop feeding the troll. I am positive that this will NOT blow over, and probably because in going down, Jimmy took two medical doctors with him. THEY have reputations that will take a beating as a result of this. I'm positive of that.
Diana said…
Guyenet didn't write "when carbs are poison you're better off eating fat."

He wrote, "when glucose is poison it's better to eat fat."

Stephen, you are a lying bastard.

Of course, Stephan is right: "when glucose is poison...." For most of us, it isn't.
Diana said…

I'm laughing my guts out. Atkins - 60 pounds overweight when he died?
CarbSane said…
I'm noting the name and thinking she's probably not happy with this if her head is not in the sand. I have a little audio of Jimmy saying she should be shot. Well, he doesn't name her, but he's talking about a dietary rec he's now trashing that he hailed her for recommending to him.

Will she be onboard come May?
Michael said…
Hi Evelyn,

and while we're at it: I distinctly remember a post about a recent interview that Paul Jaminet gave, where on his own site someone remarked that the interviewer linked to some pretty extreme right wing stuff from his web site.

Jaminet's answer was something like "the interview was one focused on nutrition, everything else is merely down to free speech", continuing a theme that seems to be very dear to free market liberals (right now Robb Wolf is probably thinking very carefully about what to write in his book on the topic).

I have the utmost respect for PJ as a researcher, but we might as well get it over with once and for all (once someone finds that comment; I haven't been able to).
CarbSane said…
IERF -- I seem to recall in that LCF mega thread Regina Wilshire referring to an initial (more sincere?) apology before it was replaced with apology #2. I was not around back then, so ... The one that exists sounds like Jimmy to me. I came into this afterwards (and after losing around 100 lbs on LC myself). Jimmy is a master of damage control -- or he used to be -- by turning on Diaz (who quite frankly was guilty of passing off fake pictures my cat could recognize and not much more as ridiculous diets are nothing new, otherwise a perfectly legal affiliate scheme).

I'm seeing a lot of former KKers or KK-sleuths here and elsewhere. I know the parallels. I appreciate any new info. But please, come out of the woodwork with a real name, or something and speak out yourselves. If you think Feinman is someone to contact. YOU do that or organize the effort.

At this point, Jimmy is as much or more the inviter as the invitee. His Encore Week podcast -- usually the most popular, and Dayspring was very popular for the info he provided -- has no sponsor. Jimmy asks listeners to support it through Amazon.com purchases. SOMEONE pulled out. Come live ATLCX episodes or when the couple-month backlog of pre-recorded LLVLC podcasts runs low/out, THAT is what I'm trying to influence by speaking out. This should be a community effort, not abdicating their own involvement and responsibilities.
CarbSane said…
Here is where Deans' removing the link to PHD over Mercola comes in. Not everyone can agree with everybody all of the time. There was a lot of objectionable material on FTA long before many dropped him -- it was his personal, vile and profanity laced posts, threats and bullying that put him over that line. I hear Wolf is a Ron Paul fan and Paul has said some pretty controversial things and held pretty controversial opinions. Do I hold that against Robb? No. If he linked to said controversial materials, that would be another story.

I think it also comes down to what a person is known for. Duke is NOT known for nutrition -- no credentials, a smattering of posts, a figurative needle in the haystack of vile racist spew.

My point being it's not usually cut and dried, but where Duke is concerned it should be.

I'd be interested in knowing who you are speaking about wrt Paul. I consider him a friend in the community but I have also criticized his engagement of Mercola who I do not believe is a reputable source of nutritional information and pretty much a marketer.

Jimmy has mentioned Paul is supposed to be on ATLCX. I don't know why he would do that since Jimmy called him a "so called expert" and denigrated once again the very notion of "safe starches", but if he goes on that podcast now, in light of Jimmy's behavior and Paul's well known Christian beliefs, yes ... I will call him out.
Diana said…
Evelyn, I know you know this, but characteristics of the troll are:

1. Feigned innocence.
2. Misquoting.
3. Putting quotation marks around what you've allegedly said, when you never said anything of the sort. (Example, misquoting Stephan.)
4. Baiting.
5. Switching.
6. Rinse, repeat.

No matter how many times you repeat what you've said, it won't work. I don't understand these people. Why aren't they happy on Free the Asshole?
Diana said…
"I cannot believe a diet based on carbs/sugar is good for anyone."

Examples of healthy carb-based diets:

Greek Island
Pima Indians, pre-19th century

I'm sure the list goes on...

Another example of LC dogmatic twisting of the truth. No one is saying that sugar is good for you. But sugar isn't the same as carbs.
Diana said…
" I have a little audio of Jimmy saying she should be shot."

It doesn't matter whom he was talking about. Saying that is disgusting. Although I can't say it either shocks or surprises me.

Is this known in the LC world?
Diana said…
"My point being it's not usually cut and dried, but where Duke is concerned it should be."

Exactly. I'm a big admirer of the notorious Tiger Mom, Amy Chua, of Yale University. She's written controversial things about ethnic hatred and economic competition in her book, World On Fire (google it).

If you wanted to caricature her writing you could make her sound like David Duke. NO - she is a legal scholar who explains hatred of successful ethnic minorities (of which she is one: overseas Chinese-Filipino). She hardly defends it - she explains it. The truth hurts so people caricature her.

Mr. C Word over at Free the Asshole is now whining about PC. I mean, really. Opposing David Duke is PC? No. Caricaturing Amy Chua is PC. Opposing David Duke is sanity.
Anonymous said…
' The twin cycle hypothesis postulates that chronic calorie excess leads to accumulation of liver fat with eventual spill over into the pancreas. These self-reinforcing cycles between liver and pancreas eventually cause metabolic inhibition of insulin secretion after meals and onset of hyperglycaemia. It is now clear that Type 2 diabetes is a reversible condition of intra-organ fat excess to which some people are more susceptible than others.'

That's from the 2012 Banting Lecture....

'Normalisation of both beta cell function and hepatic insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetes was achieved by dietary energy restriction alone. This was associated with decreased pancreatic and liver triacylglycerol stores. The abnormalities underlying type 2 diabetes are reversible by reducing dietary energy intake.'

'Both the high-carbohydrate and high-protein groups lost weight (-2.2+/-0.9 kg, -2.5+/-1.6 kg, respectively, P <.05) and the difference between the groups was not significant (P =.9). In the high-carbohydrate group, hemoglobin A1c decreased (from 8.2% to 6.9%, P <.03), fasting plasma glucose decreased (from 8.8 to 7.2 mmol/L, P <.02), and insulin sensitivity increased (from 12.8 to 17.2 micromol/kg/min, P <.03). No significant changes in these parameters occurred in the high-protein group, instead systolic and diastolic blood pressures decreased (-10.5+/-2.3 mm Hg, P =.003 and -18+/-9.0 mm Hg, P <.05, respectively). After 2 months on these hypocaloric diets, each diet had either no or minimal effects on lipid levels (total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein, high-density lipoprotein), renal (blood urea nitrogen, serum creatinine), or hepatic function (aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase, bilirubin).'

Unknown said…
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Hi Larry,

Sorry for that, but it's comforting to know there are others out there with a similar experience following Kwasniewski, Peter and Taubes.

210 is still kind of high. The studies seem to show that below 150 and even below 100 is where you want to be. How many kidney stones did you have?
Diana said…
@Euler - the first link has this: "There is now no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound decrease in food intake, and does not relate to any direct surgical effect."

Hm - I wonder if the "sudden and profound" isn't part of the solution. The same thing happened in the Diabebetalogia study:

So, I wonder if people lost weight gradually and gently, would it have the same effect? Of course, if you have diabetes, you should do what you can to reverse the course of the disease now, ASAP.
Larry Eshelman said…

I passed stones in one kidney (March 2009), and then three weeks later in the other kidney. (I never want to experience that kind of pain again!)

I haven't seen any studies showing that TC should be that low. In any case, most of the current research suggests that the particle number is a better indicator than the amount of cholesterol contained in the particles.

The studies that I've seen suggest that among traditionally measured lipid values, the best indicator is the ratio of TC to HDL-C, but even better is ApoB to ApoA1.

Several months back there was a lot of discussion about lipid values at this site: "Is This Your Paleo Diet?" (Oct 8, 2012) and "Hacking Jimmy Moore's Latest Lipid Report" (Nov 2, 2012), where many of these issues were discussed.
Unknown said…
Sorry to hear about your ordeal, Larry.

I myself am not too convinced about total cholesterol, and even the PlantPositive blog posts actually focus on the LDL particle. Based on the present body of evidence, this number shouldn't be too high and ideally around or below the 100 mark with a decent HDL count that isn't languishing in the sub-50s. I have low total cholesterol but a decently high HDL and low LDL. So far, I am lucky.
That's very well put Kade. As the year progresses you will see more and more vilification of NHS staff and others in the public sector. Eddie's blog The low Carb Diabetic recently had a post entitled "Half of NHS staff are overweight or obese and should consider surgery in order to set a better example to patients, a report will say" which was a parroting of a sub headline in the Telegraph. My balderdash radar started spinning a lot faster upon reading this. There are around 1.4 million people working in the NHS. The Telegraph article was just a thinly veiled snide attack on them. Eddie has just written a post in the aforementioned blogspot having a go at Evelyn entitled 'Carbsane David Duke, and other haters'
Ev Barney said…
Gee, maybe this is why my post didn't survive moderation on Moore's blog - it's was pretty mild too! Maybe Jimmy thinks I'm 'THAT Evelyn" (though I can't recall what form of ID I used to log in, they all say "Ev" or "Evelyn")

STOP RUINING MY NAME CARB SENSE! I don't wanna be collateral damage. (Erm, you don't really know me so let me say I'm KIDDING!)
Unknown said…
"Roy Taylor's Newcastle diet is by definition a low-carb diet" No, actually it's a starvation diet. This has the advantage of curing anything and everything, because, the result is quite straightforward: follow a starvation diet long enough and you will die. It's a pity Prof Taylor hides his head in the ground instead of investigating Dr Richard K Bernstein's approach - he was unaware of him until I drew his attention to it, but he still touts mainstream ADA nonsense in his clinics. Illogical with the emphasis on ill.
Tsimblist said…
I just stumbled across an interesting new piece in the diabetes puzzle.

"Dietary Fat Acutely Increases Glucose Concentrations and Insulin Requirements in Patients With Type 1 Diabetes: Implications for carbohydrate-based bolus dose calculation and intensive diabetes management."
Jason Sandeman said…
"I don't think that low-carb is for everyone, but I do think that Taubes, Feinman, Phinney, Volek and especially Richard K Bernstein have done immeasurable good to the diabetic community. I owe them my toes and my non-bleeding eyeballs."

Let me be honest for a second here. I owe my toes, eyes, and blood sugar to insulin and metformin. I owe the cure to my panic disorder to getting real and honest about my treatment, not some magic pill hucked by asshat "experts."

Sure, it "works" for Dr. Bernstein - but it's an N=1 experiment that he is parlaying into a treatment protocol. No one in the medical community will take him seriously because he just hasn't followed a protocol to present his findings. I would counter that he has done the diabetic community a disservice - especially if you see the cult of Bernstein in action on the DOC (Diabetic Online Community.) Carbs are evil indeed! Get rid of carbs, and all your problems go away, see?

Oh, but you gotta take this mitful of supplements because you can't get it from your diet anymore. No carrots, tomatoes, wheat, honey, nothing really with color, and certainly nothing that would turn a sugar stick colors after chewing and spitting it out onto a stick.

There's some science for you right there... Indeed, quite a help.
Woodey said…
Woodey said…
Yeah she has to throw in the bible to play on the mindless and hope it steers them away from what Jimmy did. I don't care what the voices in her head are telling her to read (please take your lithium Christine, the voices will go away), stop ducking and deal with the issue!

My soon to be deleted little message I left on Jimmy's Low Carb FB page:

Hey Jimmy how are you and your pal David Duke doing? You guys go out for fried chicken and bagels the other day? I know how much you God-fearin southern boys like the darkies, but man way to go out and publicly support a white supremacist just because he has some ideas about low carb.....LOL anything for a buck, right? What do Christians love more than little boys? MONEY...and Jimmy you just proved that. LOL I already thought of you as a putz, but dang, way to go out and reinforce it.

I hope Christine can find it in her heart to forgive me and ask the voices in her head to show me mercy.
Sanjeev said…
I'm always surprised and grateful that you remove so much high speed SPAM with high SPAM content from your site Evelyn

and so quickly

the spammers are SOOoooo ridiculous

And Google is really letting a big stain on their image go unchecked, by not giving end users a quick and easy spam reporting tool to get rid of spammers' accounts.

There are far more users who would help squash spam than their are spammers.
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Sad that it came to this.. lost all respect for JM :-(
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Shojib Ashrafi Na Ashrafi said…
Keep those meal tickets as evidence. Lawyer up, and you're set through college with a
starter home. Just a suggestion, but try and steer clear of the fast food from now on.
Feel better champ!
River Rance said…
" We’ve got a world chock full of people who are being given horrific
dietary and lifestyle advice from the mainstream authorities on health"

Oops, for a moment I thought Moore was talking about himself and other self-described nutrition gurus that he calls "peeps".

Jimmy Moore is a huckster (proof available), liar (proof available), serial dieter (proof available) and has co-opted the so called paleo movement, all the while, believing the world was created about 7-10,000 years ago.

If one disagrees with Moore in an open forum with supportive facts to debunk his lies & misinformation, then he plays the "haters" card. In reality, he's the closeted hater and has proudly linked to one of contemporary America's most notorious and famous haters!
Perhaps, Jimmy Moore is about to come out of the "haters" closet....at least he's fumbling for the light switch and door knob.
carbsane said…
In retrospect, it is amusing (were it not for the onslaught against me) to revisit this. I never called for a boycott. I am but one voice. Why do people listen? I'm just a single voice out there with traffic that pales in comparison to most of these folks. I didn't blackmail anyone, threaten anyone or even try to pressure anyone. That record is clear.

I think on some level these folks all have a little cupcake eating guilt in the backs of their minds because they know the truth and they just don't want to be reminded.
Donnie Reilly said…
"As far as Jimmy goes, he simply can’t reassess low carb, even though he has already had countless guests explain to him that the CIH is wrong and why. Jimmy is basically boxed in at this point.

I used to think he was just a friendly, neutral “journalist”. He is not. He is a creationist agenda pusher who earns his living based on people buying low carb dogma and he will avoid admitting he is addicted to food as medication until it does him in."

- Dr. Kurt Harris
eulerandothers said…
Diana, I know this is an old thread, but rereading this bit about 'sudden and profound decrease' is interesting. I sometimes read in a study that people who are already following a certain kind of diet won't benefit so much from a certain change as others who aren't on that same regimen. I wish I had kept track of all of these statements when they popped up in studies, just so I could quote them and maybe find out what this effect is called, or why more attention is not paid to it.

In plainer language, if you are going to try to show the benefits of eating more fruits and vegetables, don't set up a controlled study and have your participants be established vegetarians!
Sanjeev Sharma said…
welllll ... I find that completely true, AND ... Jimmy could become the world's richest vegan or McDougallist by "coming over". it would be a huge but that runs both ways, upside and downside.

His fans could raise such a stink as to catapult Jimmy into mainstream media.

Remember when Anthony Flew professed belief in Intelligent Design? It's clear he had become a Deist and even though he came nowhere near christianity some Christian Dominionists/reconstructionists (Gary North[0]comes to mind) claimed him as a win.

Atheist Matt Dillahunty has frequently

[0] yes, the same Gary North that tried to create end-of-the-world movements 3 times - with Y2K, with "the AIDS epidemic is God's wraith" and various economic events.
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