I still think low carb is a good diet to lose weight with, the problem is when people argue in favor of adopting it as a permanent lifestyle, we have seen cases where someone sticks with low carb for year after year and never makes much progress.
With respect to the cartoon, it pretty much ends with Betty having lost a bunch of weight, which is entirely feasible, but it does not address the question of "What now?"
I guess his answer to "What now?" is "She keeps eating low carb for the rest of her life," while my answer is "She ceases to be sedentary, develops an increasingly active lifestyle and matches her food intake to her level of activity."
Doesn't make sense to have one diet to lose and one to maintain the lower weight. If you just start with the sustainable diet to maintain, you will automatically lose fat until you settle there.
Anonymous said…
Low carbing will help you to lose weight. So will the Baby Food Diet, The Biggest Loser Diet, (those are some from the B's, on WebMD's list of popular diets). Is that short term or long term? Is it ultimately unhealthy for you, the individual? Can you live 24/7 with it? Can you live 365/24/7 with it? Can you live even longer with it?
I heard an interview with John Bogle*, in which he talks about investing and says, 'As a wise man said... Investing is simple, but it's not easy ' and THEN says, 'And it's just like we all know how to lose weight. Dieting is simple, but it's not easy.' The interviewer (Russ Roberts, on econTalk (econlib.org, 'Bogle on investing') replies, 'Eat less and exercise more.' Bogle says, 'You got it!' Roberts: 'And you can make a decent living writing a book that explains that, in a different way, with different words, but...' (laughter).
Moments before, in the interview, Russ Roberts said to Bogle, 'You've written that the secret to investing is that there is no secret. And I think that the people who feel otherwise are constantly poring over those numbers, looking for some kind of edge or trick or quick fix and it's a terrible, terrible, terrible habit.'
*John Bogle founded the first stock market index mutual fund available to the public (the Vanguard 500 Index Fund).
I wonder why the cartoon doesn't show the low-carbers who are doing lower and lower caloric numbers in a panic, then trying fasts, then trying only fat days, in a desperate attempt to stop regains or lose more.
I've regained some weight. Why? I'm eating more and moving less. No secret. I was exercising 5x a week and eating 1200 to 1500 calories in my losing phases (stricter and less strict), and I was maintaining at around 1600 at a not slim weight. I started eating 1800 calories. I exercised 2 or 3 days. Then 1 or 2 days. Then went 6 months without a single workout. I had some 2000 calorie days. Occasionally an over 2000 cal day. Guess what, the pounds came back. Anyone who is maintaining at roughly 1600 calories with nearly daily walking and 2 strength training sessions IS GOING TO REGAIN at 1800+ calories and maybe 1 or no exercise sessions weekly.
The way to get it off. Go back to doing the stuff that had me maintaining a huge poundage of loss for more than a year. Exercise or move more (doesn't hve to be the gym, I could do more housework, gardening, go volunteer at a food warehouse, whatever burns calories) and watch my intake carefully again. No secret. Just WORK.
I see many lowcarbers who cannot "eat all you want". If it was that simple, Jimmy Moore would have no weight issues. The diet would solve it. It doesn't.
Now, I do like lower carbing it for weight loss. But I notice the only produce that cartoon gives the thumbs up to is leafy greens and berries. That's it. I'm always leery of any diet that constricts produce. I think the micronutrients are so important for health in general and, especially, for those of us with medical conditions. But I recommend lowering carbs for a couple reasons to the obese, but not fearing veggies and some fruit. Something wacky with that when so many, so many, so many studies tout the health benefits of diets rich in produce.
“Moments before, in the interview, Russ Roberts said to Bogle, 'You've written that the secret to investing is that there is no secret. And I think that the people who feel otherwise are constantly poring over those numbers, looking for some kind of edge or trick or quick fix and it's a terrible, terrible, terrible habit.”
The secret, there is no secret !
There is no mystery diet or holy grail of weight loss or weight control. Many find it easy to lose weight, but keeping it off for life is a different ball game. Thus, it’s a lifestyle change for life that is the answer. Some can do it, others play at it, and hang around on forums and blogs debating the ‘science’ Those that can , do it, those that can’t whinge and look for someone to blame.
"Some can do it, others play at it, and hang around on forums and blogs debating the ‘science’ Those that can , do it, those that can’t whinge and look for someone to blame."
@Eddie
So your telling us that Jimkkkins Moore who is a Longterm Low Carb failure (by his own admission), has been hanging around the internet just to complain and place blame on haters?
It's such BS. As if someone eating a sprig of parsley and biking 70 miles wouldn't lose weight! Then they show the reason: "Oh, then I binge!" Well, so THAT is why you aren't losing weight. If you actually followed the diet you claim to be on (eat less/exercise more), you'd lose. Besides, how many people go 'crazy' on low carb and decide to have a carb binge. What works for one person won't work for another. VLC isn't universally 'easier' to stick to than other plans - it depends on the person and how they like to eat. Likewise, some people swear by their "6 small meals a day" diets and I personally prefer to eat 2 large meals each day - 6 would leave me always feeling hungry because I'd never get to eat to fullness.
Why are you bring Jimmy into this ? If you want to take me on, question my ideas and beliefs. You people can’t seem to make a post, without bringing in people that never post on this blog, why is that ? I control type two diabetes and weight with a lowcarb diet, many others do the same, what’s the problem ?
Eddie
Anonymous said…
I think that would fall into the ''And you can make a decent living writing a book that explains that, in a different way, with different words' category.
Yeah, LC is the eat all you want diet until it stops working ... then you see all manner of seasoned veterans employing strategies you wouldn't have thought to use to begin with.
Wonder why we don't have a guy going through this too.
I wonder if Adam has reviewed the Fat Fast book from the effortlessly slim gang over at CarbSmart.
Anonymous said…
Fantasy. If low-carb was so awesome, it would be more mainstream by now. Conspiracy theories aside, I have to thank Taubes for getting me away from low-fat, but that's where it ends for me. I lost my weight eating bread, potatoes, cereal, legumes, bacon, fruit and more fruit. I've maintained effortlessly for a few years, I don't suffer cravings often, have no aches and pains unless sore from gym, am very healthy.
I've been looking into wheat recently, two odd things have happened. A friend did a juice/rice/veg and strange powder (diatomacious earth and other stuff) for a month, and when he started eating everything again, his walnut ww bread is the only thing that gave him issues. This is probably not much different than a veg eating meat, the body isn't used to it, those bacteria/enzymes/whatevers not active in numbers needed. He got used to it quickly. But me, I ate a grilled cheese on wheat bread (at a greasy spoon), had cramps and gas. I have no such issues with brown rice and beans and cheese and veg on a ww tortilla (not grocery store), nor any issues with the 200-grain cardboard that I try to pass off as bread. Anything critical of Wheat Belly brings out the loons, kind of sickening. I feel like I walked into a revival of some weird religious cult. The anti-wheat/anti-carb/anti-grain people border on hysteria, shrill, dogmatic, accusatory, defensive, and kinda whiny, not the people I would care to have a conversation with.
Anyway, this previously obese woman will continue enjoying my carbs, good, bad, and indifferent.
No problem with regard to that - my problem with JM is this
Dr Thomas Dayspring - one of the world's leading authorities on lipids and and someone JM interviewed twice - told him that his LDL of 285 (now 337) and LDL-P of 3245 was extremely dangerous and that he should lower his saturated fat intake immediately, re-take the NMR test in 3 weeks and if the LDL-P levels did not start coming down he (Dr Dayspring) would recommend statin therapy
SO - what does JM do - he IGNORES Dr Dayspring and now says that for people on ketogenic diets extremely high LDL-P and extremely high LDL-C may not matter
Show me ONE published paper where the lipid profile worsens like his after one year on a VLC diet - just one
My worry is that the sycophants who blindly follow his every word and make excuses after excuses for him will do damage to themselves.
Oh lord, not more Low fat Made us Fat talk. How many millions per day do Krispy kreme, Mcdonalds, Burger King and countless other junk food venues serve per day? It's funny, my dad was reading one of my old Low carb books I had laying around the other week and he says to me "It's true, I've been eating low fat for years and I'm still overweight". I pointed out to him that just because he uses skim milk and low fat cheese doesn't exactly mean he's following a low fat diet. Low fat cheese still is mainly just fat, the sauce he uses in his stir fry is high fat, the "lite" mayonnaise he uses is 70% fat, same with the olive oil spread and 95% fat free yogurts. Not to mention the Chinese or pizza he has on weekends.
Well you have a very public person in Jimmy who has been eating low carb for year after year, so that's why he tends to get a lot of attention, just as durianrider gets attention with respect to an all-fruit diet.
If you don't want people to pick apart your dietary advice then don't put it out there.
@Unknown, Or share your menus (or what you claim to eat) for over three years. I don't know how many times Jimmy played "guess what I'm doing now" with readers or would go on a new diet kick and ask his readers what they think. I recall one particularly nasty occasion when he specifically asked for input, and when he got constructive criticism snapped back "nobody asked you".
Atkins has been around since 1972. Forty years. The martyr card only goes so far because people will try almost anything and continue doing it if it's working.
Perhaps I should make my own cartoon series. It would consist of the following stages as to how people get hooked by low carb. (I am using the morbidly obese as an object example, you can substitute the moderately obese or the merely tubby, as I was - it's the same.)
1. Morbidly obese person goes on LC diet
2. Morbidly obese person reduces calories without realizing it and gets sucked into the magic world of “effortless weight loss.” Morbidly obese person goes from 400 to 300 pounds.
3. Now non-morbidly but still medically obese person hits a plateau.
4. Medically obese person starts an account on a low-carb dieting forum and posts endlessly about why they aren't losing weight, despite cutting carbs to near zero.
5. Medically obese person posts obsessively about her cream cheese and macadamia nut consumption....confused as to why these high-protein and high fat foods aren't magically melting the pounds away.
6. Medically obese person fiddles with diet further. No dairy, no this, no that. Maybe tried a “Kekwick fat fast.” Asks Jimmy Moore whether or not...it's the calories maybe? And gets the reassuring answer: IT'S NOT THE CALORIES.
7. Lather, rinse, repeat.
8. Go clinically insane and listen to people Adam Kosloff.
Mirtika, Are you keeping a food journal? That is the one thing I have done literally religiously from the beginning. It's indispensible. I know you have a good memory but there is nothing like looking at one's food journal and saying to oneself, "I could exclude that food." Also, added fats are a killer - fact. We get quite enough fat in our protein sources in the typical western diet. Even lean proteins have fat. We don't need to add them.
I've found that to maintain, when I cut my fat intake radically to about 10% of caloric intake, I can eat a lot of carbs, even bad ones.
Losing weight is a different matter entirely, I up my proteins, cut fats, and cut carbs, but not below 100 grams a day. It works for me.
Because Jimmy is the guy who tells all and sundry that "calories don't count" - quotation, direct quotation, many times over. When someone plateaus and the weight doesn't budge, calories don't count.
And yet he went on a one week water (and diet soda) fast? Whassat all about?
Because Jimmy is the guy who told me to throw away my dang scale. And I did. And I gained 10 pounds!!!
No harm done, I bought a better scale, got real, and lost the 10 pounds and 6 more and 6 more. By eating less and moving more. Which reminds me....
I kept a food journal for more than a year (which is how I learned that I lose best in the range that has fat at around 30, protein 30 and carbs no more than 40, and it was also fine at roughly equivalent (33% or so of each macronutrient). I tended to stall and get hungry when carbs went to the recommended levels (over 66%). So, yeah, for losing, upping proteins and cutting carbs was definitely for me. The food journal also showed me I tended to not get enough zinc, magnesium, B12, folate, and a few others. It's an interesting thing and it shows how QUICKLY calories add up. I am at the weight I was almost two years ago, so it's not like I'm up to 300 pounds. I still have 110 pounds off. But I've regained 19, and I aim to get most of it back off. :D I know that means strict eating and journaling again. Journaling really is so useful and indispensable for someone who needs to be AWARE and keep track. It's very easy to get sloppy in maintenance. And really, only a couple hundred extra calories a day and, bam, there you go.
It's always a matter of discipline, For me, not a naturally disciplined eater, having had to diet for a year and a half gave me a sort of pattern that, as long as I kept it, I did fine maintaining. When I started to get lax and deviate, not good. Which is why I always told myself and tell others--you pretty much have to eat in some disciplined form forever or regain happen. It And it did to me.
No need to find some new wacky plan. Just need to get my habits back, the good habits that make me accountable and mindful. I wish I could eat what I want without planning or accountability (journals and such). I can't. I can go a spell without journaling, but then I have to do it again and focus or things get outta control. And while I have not binged (not for nearly 3 years), it doesn't take bingeing to regain. Just lack of monitoring and carelessness and laziness.
“LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more.”
Perhaps you can tell me how a type two diabetic with an HbA1c at diagnosis of 12, and by lowcarbing holds HbA1c of 5, on no medication five years on, could achieve this other than lowcarb or injected insulin. Bearing in mind no oral type two diabetes drug can achieve better than a reduction of two points. Are you aware how many type two diabetes drugs have been banned in the last few years for killing people, or how many type two drugs not banned come with black box cancer warnings ?
Also, lowcarb gives us a rise in HDL cholesterol and trigs usually plummet. Most lowcarbers I know have trigs, <1, LDL can go up, but is more than compensated by the rise in HDL for most. Personally I believe the cholesterol hypothesis to be deeply flawed.
Lowcarb has so much more to offer than a short term weight loss booster, as countless diabetics have proved.
“LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more.”
Perhaps you can tell me how a type two diabetic with an HbA1c at diagnosis of 12, and by lowcarbing holds HbA1c of 5, on no medication five years on, could achieve this other than lowcarb or injected insulin. Bearing in mind no oral type two diabetes drug can achieve better than a reduction of two points. Are you aware how many type two diabetes drugs have been banned in the last few years for killing people, or how many type two drugs not banned come with black box cancer warnings ?
Also, lowcarb gives us a rise in HDL cholesterol and trigs usually plummet. Most lowcarbers I know have trigs, <1, LDL can go up, but is more than compensated by the rise in HDL for most. Personally I believe the cholesterol hypothesis to be deeply flawed.
Lowcarb has so much more to offer than a short term weight loss booster, as countless diabetics have proved.
LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more.
Really! From a type 2 diabetics perspective LCHF has held me in good stead for the last five years, in that period I've maintained a good A1c and excellent lipids.
LC is sustainable all it needs is a little will power in the first few months then it becomes a way of life no problem.
While I think coconutz comment if overstated, the idea that LC is the only way to "reverse" diabetes is as well. There is someone who comments here from time to time ejazz who lost weight and follows the DASH diet and is truly in remission -- e.g. insulin secretion & signalling working. Joel Fuhrman boasts many similar remissions.
Have you read the posts on diabetes remission here? I will be including a series on early insulin treatment for T2 -- something folks like Rosedale consider downright criminal. Did you read the post on beta cell dysfunction or my recent series on this? No comment?
Would you not agree that it would be better to have a properly functioning pancreas? According to their own accounts, several long term low carbers become more glucose intolerant (e.g. unable to mount the appropriate GSIS) with time. The deterioration in Jimmy Moore's health is astounding and if he were (aaack) my husband I'd not be enabling it. None of his "friends" has said anything to him?
Ha! I noticed that too. Odd how most of the stuff was behavioral/relational but just magically went away with an uncontested [blink blink] diet change.
"It's an interesting thing and it shows how QUICKLY calories add up."
Yes.
Another thing, which somewhat counterbalances the above - I no longer think in terms of bingeing. I sometimes overeat - that is not an inane concept. :):) So, I just skip a meal. It's not a moral failing, I didn't threaten someone with an Uzi, I just overate. BFD!
And no, skipping a meal after overeating a few hundred calories isn't an eating disorder. It's balanced eating.
Good luck, Mirtika. Losing fat definitely takes a form of energy that is hard to quantify.
The only Americans who truly eat lowfat are vegans. Yes, that is a sweeping generalization but think of it. I probably eat way less fat than most Americans. I add very little extra butter to bread, mayo to fish, no more than a TBSP of oil to salad. BUT - I eat eggs, cheese, meat, poultry, the so-called fatty fish, etc.
Using Cronometer, I've calculated that simply by eating moderate portions of animal protein sources, it is easy to eat 30%-35% of your calories as fat. Supereasy. That's what the vegans are saying, except that I don't think this is necessarily bad for you, and they do.
Anyone who insists people who are critical of Jimmy are critical of LC are doing themselves a disservice by making him their representative. I know plenty of low-carbers with sane biomarkers.
Exactly. When one becomes the Everyman's Figurehead for a particular way of eating, and makes a living off it, and encourages others to watch what he does and emulate, and promotes products--it's justified to point out when the person may be in error or just plain nutty.
If calories don't count, then why fast, as the comment above mentions? Why not just eat more fat? If fat is the miracle food with some protein, why not just hit the fat harder? Why cut out food altogether? Because not eating means fewer calories means weight loss. When the goal is weight loss (and Jimmy's is, as much as he talks about health markers, what he wants is to get down to a certain weight), then a fast is to burn fat.
But if calories don't count, why not just guzzle fat straight from the coconut oil jar? Hm. Cause..they count. The composition of those calories--well, the benefits of one composition over another is where discussion is legitimate, I think, the quality of food, the best macro breakdown for this or that medical condition or building muscle or losing fat over lean or satisfying appetite or making hair thicker and shinier. Whatever. The quality of the calories matters for other reasons. But people have lost weight eating utter crap, if they controlled the calories of said crap.
Both strategies work for different sub-sets of the population. I think proper low-fat vegetarian diets produce positive A1C and lowered fasting glucose and insulin response in those who probably have substantial issues metabolising saturated fat. Conversely, it seems as though another sub-set of the population can actually do better via carbohydrate restriction.
People who claim they can't lose weight on a 1500 calorie diet are deluded bullshitters. I once saw a 200+kg man on TV who claimed he only ate "a few crackers with cheese or a piece of fruit" for a meal. It turned out he ate a BOX of crackers and 500g of cheese. The "piece" of fruit was a WHOLE watermelon. He also forgot to mention the daily pizzas, 2litre bottles of Coke and bags of sweets.
100% of the millions of WW2 POW and concentration camp victims underwent a rapid sustained weight loss (to the eventual point of death) on a diet of 1000-1500 calories per day.
I had a recent family weekend get together. My siblings all have a BMI of ~35 . During the weekend they all ate breakfast and lunch, sat around and drank alcohol. I (BMI 23) drank diet soft drinks, walked 10+km every day and skipped breakfast and lunch. Go figure.
Wild mammalian HERBIVORES typically get a miniscule TWO PERCENT of their energy intake directly from carbohydrates. They derive about 80% of their energy from VFAs and 20% from amino acids via gut fermentation. Even frugivores such as monkeys normally convert most of the sugars to fat and protein via fermentation rather than use the energy directly.
Cattle on natural pastures can easily enter a state of ketosis - especially during lactation.
I assume you mean the Mcdougall style vegans or fruitarians because there is a lot of junk food vegans or just vegans who use a lot of cooking fats and eat nuts. But I agree those 2 groups are the only real low fat dieters besides strict Pritikin followers who do include small amounts of lean meats. Many people choose some low fat items and skim milk but rarely follow through with an actual low fat diet.
Lian, yes. I have a cousin who is a vegan and is 40 pounds overweight. She used to be a skinny regular vegetarian. After several years of veganism she is now fat. Hm....how did that happen? In fact this reminds me that the vegans are the mirror images of the LC/Paleo cult: they sell their magic cure for everything with a few celebrity examples, denying that the vast majority of people struggle with the program. Except that the vegans have better celebrity examples.....For every hot-bodied Paleo poster boy you have a Jimmy, and a Nikoley.
Blogblog, I have no idea what you are talking about.
The problem with LC diets is that they are usually high in meat and saturated fat, and this combination can cause iron overload and manganese deficiency. This seems to be what causes diabetes.
Here is a very important paper that came out in January. 'Manganese supplementation protects against diet-induced diabetes in wild type mice by enhancing insulin secretion' http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372018
This one came out a couple of weeks ago, and says 'Iron plays a direct and causal role in diabetes pathogenesis mediated both by β cell failure and insulin resistance.' 'Iron and diabetes risk' https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(13)00055-7
Last September this was reported in Science Daily. 'Cause of Diabetes May Be Linked to Iron Transport' http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120920135607.htm
This came out in 2011, showing how a high fat diet causes diabetes: it prevents retention of glucose transporters on the cell surface of pancreatic beta cells. Retention depends on glycosylation, which requires manganese (not mentioned in the paper). 'Pathway to diabetes through attenuation of pancreatic beta cell glycosylation and glucose transport' http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17/n9/full/nm.2414.html
And last but not least, saturated fat has been found to promote iron absorption and inhibit manganese absorption. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11697763
Blogblog is arguing that most of the fibre and carbohydrate content of food consumed by herbivores gets converted to short chain fatty acids. That is: fat is their fuel.
Gotta' give it to the vegans though; they've got the better ratio of fit to fat. Not to mention, on places like 30BaD, even out of the very hush-hush stack of failures, you don't have obese individuals with hypercholesterolemia.
"Who's Graham? Or is this a community account?" LOL
If you want to call four people with equal access to a blog a community who am I to argue.
Grahm, Eddie, Jimmy whatever
I presume you mean Graham LOL, Eddie is of course a team member, we don't have anyone going by the name of Jimmy connected with the blog.
I know type 2's who got the same results without LC, just losing weight and not eating crap, exersize.
Type 2s who have successfully controlled their diabetes using 45 - 65% kcals from carbs are as rare as rocking horse poo, some of those I've come across that have attempted to go down that route usually end up on multiple medications, the sensible ones drastically reduced their carbs intake.
If LC works longterm for you, congratulations, you beat the odds.
UnknownMarch 26, 2013 at 2:13 PM "I used to be obese but changed my way of life, now I run and lift weights and play tennis and have a nice tan, to me that is a way of life"
Correct me if I am wrong, but I bet you are the sort of guy that looks in a mirror and gets a hard on ?
"The comment “LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more” is ludicrous. This person has never tried lowcarb, or has failed at lowcarb, or is a complete idiot, take your pick."
@Eddie
Since I lost 50 lb. before ditching LC due to severe Hypothyroidism. My pick is Idiot for not ditching LC /VLC sooner.
blogblog said... "Even frugivores such as monkeys normally convert most of the sugars to fat and protein via fermentation rather than use the energy directly." I find that hard to believe. Disaccharide sugars are enzymatically hydrolysed into monosaccharide sugars and fully absorbed in the ileum. Non-absorbed sugars osmotically draw water into the gut causing laxation, in addition to some fermentation.
"Why not use different ID's? Or do you all know what each posts and speak with one voice. It's annoying."
My bad! I neglected to add my name to the end of the comment, as for knowing what each of us posts, I presume you mean having prior knowledge the simple answer is no.
Annoying! jeez your easily annoyed, as long as the comment is kept in context what does it matter.
Graham
P.S. I found a Type 2 who successfully follows a high carb low fat regime check him out on youtube
Graham, I try to interact with commenters here on an individual level. It's nice that you guys sign your comments so I know who's who but there have been some snarks by the LTM "ID" here that I don't know who posted them. Yes that is annoying to not know who it is I'm interacting with, even if it is just an anonymous moniker in many cases. This is why I don't allow anonymous commenting. Nothing is more frustrating than trying to interact in a comment thread (elsewhere obviously) with who knows how many Anonymous commenters.
Anonymous said…
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Comments
With respect to the cartoon, it pretty much ends with Betty having lost a bunch of weight, which is entirely feasible, but it does not address the question of "What now?"
I guess his answer to "What now?" is "She keeps eating low carb for the rest of her life," while my answer is "She ceases to be sedentary, develops an increasingly active lifestyle and matches her food intake to her level of activity."
I heard an interview with John Bogle*, in which he talks about investing and says, 'As a wise man said... Investing is simple, but it's not easy ' and THEN says, 'And it's just like we all know how to lose weight. Dieting is simple, but it's not easy.' The interviewer (Russ Roberts, on econTalk (econlib.org, 'Bogle on investing') replies, 'Eat less and exercise more.' Bogle says, 'You got it!' Roberts: 'And you can make a decent living writing a book that explains that, in a different way, with different words, but...' (laughter).
Moments before, in the interview, Russ Roberts said to Bogle, 'You've written that the secret to investing is that there is no secret. And I think that the people who feel otherwise are constantly poring over those numbers, looking for some kind of edge or trick or quick fix and it's a terrible, terrible, terrible habit.'
*John Bogle founded the first stock market index mutual fund available to the public (the Vanguard 500 Index Fund).
I've regained some weight. Why? I'm eating more and moving less. No secret. I was exercising 5x a week and eating 1200 to 1500 calories in my losing phases (stricter and less strict), and I was maintaining at around 1600 at a not slim weight. I started eating 1800 calories. I exercised 2 or 3 days. Then 1 or 2 days. Then went 6 months without a single workout. I had some 2000 calorie days. Occasionally an over 2000 cal day. Guess what, the pounds came back. Anyone who is maintaining at roughly 1600 calories with nearly daily walking and 2 strength training sessions IS GOING TO REGAIN at 1800+ calories and maybe 1 or no exercise sessions weekly.
The way to get it off. Go back to doing the stuff that had me maintaining a huge poundage of loss for more than a year. Exercise or move more (doesn't hve to be the gym, I could do more housework, gardening, go volunteer at a food warehouse, whatever burns calories) and watch my intake carefully again. No secret. Just WORK.
I see many lowcarbers who cannot "eat all you want". If it was that simple, Jimmy Moore would have no weight issues. The diet would solve it. It doesn't.
Now, I do like lower carbing it for weight loss. But I notice the only produce that cartoon gives the thumbs up to is leafy greens and berries. That's it. I'm always leery of any diet that constricts produce. I think the micronutrients are so important for health in general and, especially, for those of us with medical conditions. But I recommend lowering carbs for a couple reasons to the obese, but not fearing veggies and some fruit. Something wacky with that when so many, so many, so many studies tout the health benefits of diets rich in produce.
The secret, there is no secret !
There is no mystery diet or holy grail of weight loss or weight control. Many find it easy to lose weight, but keeping it off for life is a different ball game. Thus, it’s a lifestyle change for life that is the answer. Some can do it, others play at it, and hang around on forums and blogs debating the ‘science’ Those that can , do it, those that can’t whinge and look for someone to blame.
Eddie
@Eddie
So your telling us that Jimkkkins Moore who is a Longterm Low Carb failure
(by his own admission), has been hanging around the internet just to complain and place blame on haters?
Eddie
I didn't find levity. Mildly to moderately offensive in parts, "I can't believe I'm watching this still" for the rest. Not funny.
Wonder why we don't have a guy going through this too.
I've been looking into wheat recently, two odd things have happened. A friend did a juice/rice/veg and strange powder (diatomacious earth and other stuff) for a month, and when he started eating everything again, his walnut ww bread is the only thing that gave him issues. This is probably not much different than a veg eating meat, the body isn't used to it, those bacteria/enzymes/whatevers not active in numbers needed. He got used to it quickly. But me, I ate a grilled cheese on wheat bread (at a greasy spoon), had cramps and gas. I have no such issues with brown rice and beans and cheese and veg on a ww tortilla (not grocery store), nor any issues with the 200-grain cardboard that I try to pass off as bread. Anything critical of Wheat Belly brings out the loons, kind of sickening. I feel like I walked into a revival of some weird religious cult. The anti-wheat/anti-carb/anti-grain people border on hysteria, shrill, dogmatic, accusatory, defensive, and kinda whiny, not the people I would care to have a conversation with.
Anyway, this previously obese woman will continue enjoying my carbs, good, bad, and indifferent.
No problem with regard to that - my problem with JM is this
Dr Thomas Dayspring - one of the world's leading authorities on lipids and and someone JM interviewed twice - told him that his LDL of 285 (now 337) and LDL-P of 3245 was extremely dangerous and that he should lower his saturated fat intake immediately, re-take the NMR test in 3 weeks and if the LDL-P levels did not start coming down he (Dr Dayspring) would recommend statin therapy
SO - what does JM do - he IGNORES Dr Dayspring and now says that for people on ketogenic diets extremely high LDL-P and extremely high LDL-C may not matter
Show me ONE published paper where the lipid profile worsens like his after one year on a VLC diet - just one
My worry is that the sycophants who blindly follow his every word and make excuses after excuses for him will do damage to themselves.
What is there left to take on that has not already been done so on this blog?
LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more.
It's funny, my dad was reading one of my old Low carb books I had laying around the other week and he says to me "It's true, I've been eating low fat for years and I'm still overweight". I pointed out to him that just because he uses skim milk and low fat cheese doesn't exactly mean he's following a low fat diet. Low fat cheese still is mainly just fat, the sauce he uses in his stir fry is high fat, the "lite" mayonnaise he uses is 70% fat, same with the olive oil spread and 95% fat free yogurts. Not to mention the Chinese or pizza he has on weekends.
If you don't want people to pick apart your dietary advice then don't put it out there.
As George Takei might say, Oh Myyy!
Perhaps I should make my own cartoon series. It would consist of the following stages as to how people get hooked by low carb. (I am using the morbidly obese as an object example, you can substitute the moderately obese or the merely tubby, as I was - it's the same.)
1. Morbidly obese person goes on LC diet
2. Morbidly obese person reduces calories without realizing it and gets sucked into the magic world of “effortless weight loss.” Morbidly obese person goes from 400 to 300 pounds.
3. Now non-morbidly but still medically obese person hits a plateau.
4. Medically obese person starts an account on a low-carb dieting forum and posts endlessly about why they aren't losing weight, despite cutting carbs to near zero.
5. Medically obese person posts obsessively about her cream cheese and macadamia nut consumption....confused as to why these high-protein and high fat foods aren't magically melting the pounds away.
6. Medically obese person fiddles with diet further. No dairy, no this, no that. Maybe tried a “Kekwick fat fast.” Asks Jimmy Moore whether or not...it's the calories maybe? And gets the reassuring answer: IT'S NOT THE CALORIES.
7. Lather, rinse, repeat.
8. Go clinically insane and listen to people Adam Kosloff.
I've found that to maintain, when I cut my fat intake radically to about 10% of caloric intake, I can eat a lot of carbs, even bad ones.
Losing weight is a different matter entirely, I up my proteins, cut fats, and cut carbs, but not below 100 grams a day. It works for me.
Love ya, you ask such easy questions.
Because Jimmy is the guy who tells all and sundry that "calories don't count" - quotation, direct quotation, many times over. When someone plateaus and the weight doesn't budge, calories don't count.
And yet he went on a one week water (and diet soda) fast? Whassat all about?
Because Jimmy is the guy who told me to throw away my dang scale. And I did. And I gained 10 pounds!!!
No harm done, I bought a better scale, got real, and lost the 10 pounds and 6 more and 6 more. By eating less and moving more. Which reminds me....
It's always a matter of discipline, For me, not a naturally disciplined eater, having had to diet for a year and a half gave me a sort of pattern that, as long as I kept it, I did fine maintaining. When I started to get lax and deviate, not good. Which is why I always told myself and tell others--you pretty much have to eat in some disciplined form forever or regain happen. It And it did to me.
No need to find some new wacky plan. Just need to get my habits back, the good habits that make me accountable and mindful. I wish I could eat what I want without planning or accountability (journals and such). I can't. I can go a spell without journaling, but then I have to do it again and focus or things get outta control. And while I have not binged (not for nearly 3 years), it doesn't take bingeing to regain. Just lack of monitoring and carelessness and laziness.
:-/
“LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more.”
Perhaps you can tell me how a type two diabetic with an HbA1c at diagnosis of 12, and by lowcarbing holds HbA1c of 5, on no medication five years on, could achieve this other than lowcarb or injected insulin. Bearing in mind no oral type two diabetes drug can achieve better than a reduction of two points. Are you aware how many type two diabetes drugs have been banned in the last few years for killing people, or how many type two drugs not banned come with black box cancer warnings ?
Also, lowcarb gives us a rise in HDL cholesterol and trigs usually plummet. Most lowcarbers I know have trigs, <1, LDL can go up, but is more than compensated by the rise in HDL for most. Personally I believe the cholesterol hypothesis to be deeply flawed.
Lowcarb has so much more to offer than a short term weight loss booster, as countless diabetics have proved.
Eddie
“LC is a great short term strategy for quick weight loss, nothing more.”
Perhaps you can tell me how a type two diabetic with an HbA1c at diagnosis of 12, and by lowcarbing holds HbA1c of 5, on no medication five years on, could achieve this other than lowcarb or injected insulin. Bearing in mind no oral type two diabetes drug can achieve better than a reduction of two points. Are you aware how many type two diabetes drugs have been banned in the last few years for killing people, or how many type two drugs not banned come with black box cancer warnings ?
Also, lowcarb gives us a rise in HDL cholesterol and trigs usually plummet. Most lowcarbers I know have trigs, <1, LDL can go up, but is more than compensated by the rise in HDL for most. Personally I believe the cholesterol hypothesis to be deeply flawed.
Lowcarb has so much more to offer than a short term weight loss booster, as countless diabetics have proved.
Eddie
Really! From a type 2 diabetics perspective LCHF has held me in good stead for the last five years, in that period I've maintained a good A1c and excellent lipids.
LC is sustainable all it needs is a little will power in the first few months then it becomes a way of life no problem.
Graham
Have you read the posts on diabetes remission here? I will be including a series on early insulin treatment for T2 -- something folks like Rosedale consider downright criminal. Did you read the post on beta cell dysfunction or my recent series on this? No comment?
Would you not agree that it would be better to have a properly functioning pancreas? According to their own accounts, several long term low carbers become more glucose intolerant (e.g. unable to mount the appropriate GSIS) with time. The deterioration in Jimmy Moore's health is astounding and if he were (aaack) my husband I'd not be enabling it. None of his "friends" has said anything to him?
So ... list too long to recite and Jimmy Moore just lack willpower. That is a dirty word in low carb circles y'know.
Yes.
Another thing, which somewhat counterbalances the above - I no longer think in terms of bingeing. I sometimes overeat - that is not an inane concept. :):) So, I just skip a meal. It's not a moral failing, I didn't threaten someone with an Uzi, I just overate. BFD!
And no, skipping a meal after overeating a few hundred calories isn't an eating disorder. It's balanced eating.
Good luck, Mirtika. Losing fat definitely takes a form of energy that is hard to quantify.
A diet is not a way of life.
Maybe I am lacking in will power.
Using Cronometer, I've calculated that simply by eating moderate portions of animal protein sources, it is easy to eat 30%-35% of your calories as fat. Supereasy. That's what the vegans are saying, except that I don't think this is necessarily bad for you, and they do.
If calories don't count, then why fast, as the comment above mentions? Why not just eat more fat? If fat is the miracle food with some protein, why not just hit the fat harder? Why cut out food altogether? Because not eating means fewer calories means weight loss. When the goal is weight loss (and Jimmy's is, as much as he talks about health markers, what he wants is to get down to a certain weight), then a fast is to burn fat.
But if calories don't count, why not just guzzle fat straight from the coconut oil jar? Hm. Cause..they count. The composition of those calories--well, the benefits of one composition over another is where discussion is legitimate, I think, the quality of food, the best macro breakdown for this or that medical condition or building muscle or losing fat over lean or satisfying appetite or making hair thicker and shinier. Whatever. The quality of the calories matters for other reasons. But people have lost weight eating utter crap, if they controlled the calories of said crap.
For weight loss, calories count. Always have.
Grahm, Eddie, Jimmy whatever
I know type 2's who got the same results without LC, just losing weight and not eating crap, exersize.
If LC works longterm for you, congratulations, you beat the odds.
100% of the millions of WW2 POW and concentration camp victims underwent a rapid sustained weight loss (to the eventual point of death) on a diet of 1000-1500 calories per day.
I had a recent family weekend get together. My siblings all have a BMI of ~35 . During the weekend they all ate breakfast and lunch, sat around and drank alcohol. I (BMI 23) drank diet soft drinks, walked 10+km every day and skipped breakfast and lunch. Go figure.
Wild mammalian HERBIVORES typically get a miniscule TWO PERCENT of their energy intake directly from carbohydrates. They derive about 80% of their energy from VFAs and 20% from amino acids via gut fermentation. Even frugivores such as monkeys normally convert most of the sugars to fat and protein via fermentation rather than use the energy directly.
Cattle on natural pastures can easily enter a state of ketosis - especially during lactation.
Blogblog, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Here is a very important paper that came out in January.
'Manganese supplementation protects against diet-induced diabetes in wild type mice by enhancing insulin secretion'
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372018
This one came out a couple of weeks ago, and says 'Iron plays a direct and causal role in diabetes pathogenesis mediated both by β cell failure and insulin resistance.'
'Iron and diabetes risk'
https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(13)00055-7
Last September this was reported in Science Daily.
'Cause of Diabetes May Be Linked to Iron Transport'
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120920135607.htm
This came out in 2011, showing how a high fat diet causes diabetes: it prevents retention of glucose transporters on the cell surface of pancreatic beta cells. Retention depends on glycosylation, which requires manganese (not mentioned in the paper).
'Pathway to diabetes through attenuation of pancreatic beta cell glycosylation and glucose transport'
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17/n9/full/nm.2414.html
And last but not least, saturated fat has been found to promote iron absorption and inhibit manganese absorption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11697763
"I'd wager you'd get a better result from eating carbs, lifting weights and taking magnesium."
Not if you are obese, or a type two diabetic, or pre diabetic. Dream on mate.
Eddie
Gotta' give it to the vegans though; they've got the better ratio of fit to fat. Not to mention, on places like 30BaD, even out of the very hush-hush stack of failures, you don't have obese individuals with hypercholesterolemia.
"Who's Graham? Or is this a community account?" LOL
If you want to call four people with equal access to a blog a community who am I to argue.
Grahm, Eddie, Jimmy whatever
I presume you mean Graham LOL, Eddie is of course a team member, we don't have anyone going by the name of Jimmy connected with the blog.
I know type 2's who got the same results without LC, just losing weight and not eating crap, exersize.
Type 2s who have successfully controlled their diabetes using 45 - 65% kcals from carbs are as rare as rocking horse poo, some of those I've come across that have attempted to go down that route usually end up on multiple medications, the sensible ones drastically reduced their carbs intake.
If LC works longterm for you, congratulations, you beat the odds.
Going LCHF the odds were stacked in my favour!
"I used to be obese but changed my way of life, now I run and lift weights and play tennis and have a nice tan, to me that is a way of life"
Correct me if I am wrong, but I bet you are the sort of guy that looks in a mirror and gets a hard on ?
Eddie
@Eddie
Since I lost 50 lb. before ditching LC due to severe Hypothyroidism. My pick is Idiot for not ditching LC /VLC sooner.
"Even frugivores such as monkeys normally convert most of the sugars to fat and protein via fermentation rather than use the energy directly."
I find that hard to believe. Disaccharide sugars are enzymatically hydrolysed into monosaccharide sugars and fully absorbed in the ileum. Non-absorbed sugars osmotically draw water into the gut causing laxation, in addition to some fermentation.
My bad! I neglected to add my name to the end of the comment, as for knowing what each of us posts, I presume you mean having prior knowledge the simple answer is no.
Annoying! jeez your easily annoyed, as long as the comment is kept in context what does it matter.
Graham
P.S. I found a Type 2 who successfully follows a high carb low fat regime check him out
on youtube
I stumbleupon everyday. It's always exciting to read through articles from other authors and use something from their web sites.
My blog post diet that works
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