Paleo on Oz ... Notes & Comments
UPDATE: Link to Transcript
Dr. Loren Cordain and Nell Stephenson (the Paleoista, who co-authored a cookbook with Cordain) were on The Dr. Oz show today. I taped it. Cordain describes the diet of having all healthy aspects including:
Dr. Loren Cordain and Nell Stephenson (the Paleoista, who co-authored a cookbook with Cordain) were on The Dr. Oz show today. I taped it. Cordain describes the diet of having all healthy aspects including:
- high protein diet (say what?)
- lots of fruits and veggies that contain beneficial phytochemicals, vitamins and minerals
- high in long chain omega 3 fatty acids
"So basically nothing in a wrapper" (I edited this in as I relistened to make sure I get another quote correct). Lumping beans and grains which are mostly in the case of the former or can be in the case of the latter real, whole foods in with processed foods is unnecessary hyperbole.
But it's not Atkins despite her description of the diet as organic poultry, wild salmon and grassfed meats with local produce (lots! includes fruit), healthy fats (CO, olive oil, avocados and limited raw nuts - shows almonds). Nell describes Atkins as sitting around all day eating bacon and cheese (LOL, and we wonder where the stereotypes come from). But the foods she has there will end up likely constituting a low carb diet as implemented by most (like Practical Paleo's Diane Sanfilippo who restricts fruit considerably). Nothing in a package or a wrapper -- whole, fresh foods.
Biggest misconception? Cordain: The biggest misconception that it's a fad diet. It's the longest fad diet in history, lasted millions of years. Paleo diet is superior to Mediterranean diet in the 7 or 8 clinical trials. This of course implies that this one diet is the one our paleolithic ancestors did indeed eat....
Nell's Food Plate:
- Two-thirds fresh veggies
- palm sized piece of protein
- healthy dollop of fat (shows three slices of avocado)
- piece of fruit -- wants you to eat more veggies than fruit
Prehistoric cultures were not vegetarians. Oz "you are kidding me!" Prehistoric men were meat eaters!! (55%) I gotta tell my wife! (And Nell because her ratios seemed a bit off). Another edit here: In Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications the ratio is put at more like 35% animal/65% plant. Cordain gets the 55% as an average of the range of 45-65% in his 2000 paper: Plant-animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in worldwide hunter-gatherer diets. Eaton & Konner attempt to reconstruct a paleolithic diet, Cordain acknowledges wide diversity in "modern" HG diets but uses the average to say that's what the paleo diet was. This is THE paleo diet being discussed, not templates or frameworks etc.
No calorie counting! Nell says you'll have well balanced small meals, steady blood sugar, so you won't want junky foods and if you eat too much broccoli you're OK.
Nell, I guess the last rule is here -- ladies eat meat for breakfast! Eat breakfast! No cereal.
Paleoista -- says 3 cheat meals a week? More approachable. OK .... but just don't read her blog :D Nell is one of the most restrictive out there. She considers vinegar cheating!
And now for some recipes.
- Nell starts off with two possible paleo breakfasts. After reiterating the food plate you are shown an plate that is almost 3/4 filled with proteins in the form of steak and eggs with some mushrooms and a green garnish to round it off. No cheese, so it's not Atkins! It might be nice if they could be consistent in one food segment on the Dr. Oz show? Next up the option of a really gross looking smoothie -- made with tea instead of milk, throw in some spinach, there are some berries on the table but she doesn't mention those, and it has eggs in it (that she promises you won't taste) but when they drink it she says you just taste the blueberries.
- Lunch is a paleo Cobb salad with an olive oil mustard dressing, you have left over turkey and sliced eggs on this plate. Or salad with breaded chicken that is "breaded" with walnuts.
- Dinners (look traditional) so she has blackened salmon and then a spaghetti squash dinner.
- Desserts: Paleo truffles uses 85% (she prefers 99%) little sweetener.
Next up Success Stories:
Christina -- thyroid issues, sluggish -- lost 30 lbs -- plans ahead and carries around lean beef jerky
Marie -- has MS -- went paleo cured herself, from numb from waste down and limped walking
What's holding up the proof Dr. Cordain? We need RCTs, and the leaky gut hypothesis is still relatively new.
So that's it. My thoughts? Sounds like Lindeberg style paleo was on display, moreso in the plate building rules than in the actual meals shown. But relatively low fat and low carb. Sure as heck not the images of paleo coming out of PaleoFX or that one would get from reading many blogs and at places like PaleoHacks. The diet that is in the 30 days of menus in Robb Wolf's book. Not fat phobic, but hardly "up the fat" either. Higher in carb than the more fruit-phobic versions. No mention one way or the other of tubers and root veggies or starch.
Definitely geared to Oz's female audience. Which is fine, but in this show, we have one paleo diet presented as "the" diet by Cordain and it isn't either a very high fat diet nor primal (that allows dairy), nor the starchy tubers allowed or even featured in some paleo diets (especially for athletes). Speaking of athletes, it was a bit disappointing that Nell didn't address activity at all. She was pretty adamant that paleo is not Atkins or low carb. But the pictured meals were low carb, many even induction friendly being a giant bowl of non-starchy veggies with a small piece of fruit or a few berries. Certainly not balanced meals as she repeatedly misrepresents them. So how does such a diet support a competitive triathlete like Nell?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20499072 Legumes probably reduce excessive inflammation in the body. How hard was that? I didn't even know of this paper until 5 minutes ago when I decided to pubmed it.
I have sympathy for evolutionary nutrition, and it can be good for hypothesis-generation and can be gratifying as an after-the-fact narrative, but this slavish devotion to the Paleo Diet has to go. It's just another paradigm that happens to be better than eating potato chips and fast food.
It doesn't. It's probably ideal for the people in the audience, though.
As long as products made from grain dust are allowed to be called "Whole Grain", it's probably advisable to avoid grains, but avoiding dairy & legumes is misguided.
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Low carb and low fat was actually the impression I had after reading Cordain's and Eaton's various papers. Eating a diet of lean meats and lots of vegetables can result in lower caloric intake and thus can lead to weight loss, so long as there is adherence. After energy deficit (intaking less than you expend), adherence is THE most important factor in any diet.
The fact that a leading promoter of this diet has to "cheat" on a regular basis is telling.
Carbs range from 41 to 46%
As to Paleoista and "cheating", I found that super odd. From time to time I read her blog and she is one of the most stringent, righteous paleo promoters. Quite a bit different than here: http://paleoista.com/news/the-concept-of-cheating/
More gruel please?
Paleolithic Nutrition: Twenty-Five Years Later Nutr Clin Pract December 2010 25: 594-602
Some (revised) conclusions:
Carbohydrate consumption of H-G groups varied from about 35 to 65% of calories.
H-G diets are higher in fat than they once thought: the new range is 20 to 35% of calories.
From that paper (full text: http://lightprint.org/resources/pdf/Paleolithic%20Nutrition%20Twenty-Five%20Years%20Later.pdf )
''Standard recommendations suggested that TF be reduced to no more than 30% of calories and that the ratio of SF to unsaturated fat be reduced markedly. At the time, we estimated that in the HG diet, TF contributed about 20% of calories, including about 6% SF, a level of restriction deemed by most authorities to be too difficult to achieve. On the basis of new analyses of HG diets, we have raised the estimated
range of their likely TF intake to 20%-35%. Both low-fat (20%) and high-fat (40%) diets have been shown to aid in weight loss given appropriate caloric restriction and adherence,37 but it has also been shown that very low TF may not only prevent or retard atherosclerosis but, combined with other lifestyle changes, partly reverse established atherosclerotic plaques.38,39
However, TF is only part of the story. Game animals have more mono- and polyunsaturated fatty acids (MUFA and PUFA) than supermarket meat.10 It used to be recommended that SF intake be less than 10% of total energy, but according to the Institute of Medicine (IOM), any increase raises cardiac risk.40 (However, recent evidence suggests that the C-14 and C-16 saturated fatty acids, and not C-18 stearic acid, are the chief serum cholesterolraising components of animal fat.41) HG trans-fatty-acid intake was a small fraction of our 2% of total calories. Especially given their high estimated intake of marine animal flesh,35,36 PUFA intake would have been nearly twice the present level of 15 g/d, due almost entirely to a greater proportion of cardioprotective ω-3 forms. The resulting ω-6:ω-3 ratio of about 2:1 contrasts with the current ratio of about 10:1, with 8:1 recommended.40 We predict that future recommendations for this ratio will decline further."
Certainly explains the Weight Watchers adage that overweight people didn't get overweight by binge-eating broccoli, or celery, or every other watery, fibrous veggie you can think of.
But why not also mention that those non-starchy veggies, if we are talking about fresh vegetables, are costly. More expensive than the fatty ground beef that you can buy, 'family size,' or frozen, or cooked, or made into inexpensive meatballs or meatloaf, or ---- on and on. On a really good day at the supermarket, I find generic (or even brand name) frozen veggies that the supermarket wants to move off the shelf. I'd love to grab them but I don't have a freezer, just a freezer compartment in my fridge. In general, vegetables (and fruits, with the exception of apples) tend to be pricey, because they are perishable when not boxed and frozen.
Even starchy vegetables don't provide enough density for people who can be classified as an "endurance athlete," when I was young I used to buy these drinks at the GNC that provided 400 calories of glucose in 16 ounces of beverage, and I would still wind up supplementing them with Snickers bars. For an endurance athlete sugar is the bomb.
Now that I'm older I make due with rice and potatoes, "endurance" takes on a different meaning as you age. When I was trying to do it without eating starch it was sheer torture. Even if you aren't much of an athlete, getting some glucose into you will make physical activity seem less of an ordeal. The benefits of "moving more" as you age are so great that you don't want to handicap yourself through starvation.
a) Money. Even small scale trials can cost millions of dollars. (A 26 week pharmaceutical trial using 1000 patients can cost $100 million). A large scale long term dietary trial (2000+ patients/5-10 years) will cost BILLIONS.
No one will pay for something that can't be patented.
b) Ethics. A nutrition researcher told me a couple of years ago that no ethics committee would approve a paleo diet trial. High fat/high protein/low carb diets for humans are basically considered taboo in nutrition research.
c) Logistics. Large scale, long term, fully controlled dietary trials are impossible unless you can use prisoners. This is now considered unethical.
d) Lobbyists. Dozens of organisations including the pharmaceutical industry, AHA, AMA and the USDA would protest against the trial.
Humans evolved to travel long distances at low speed (6-10km) - not high intensity distance races. if you walk/jog you have no need for supplementary carbohydrates.
Only endurance activity below the Anaerobic Threshold is primarily fueled by fat. Any endurance activity faster than jogging pace will use a substantial amount of glucose.
HGs don't run 2'10" marathons - they alternate between walking and jogging.
East Africa has massive freshwater lakes full of fish. Lake Victoria is larger than Lake Huron.
It is interesting to note that Nell will use those glucose gels for racing.
I've been reading the Paleo blogs for a few years now, and it seems to me that readers may gravitate toward a particular person or method (for lack of a better word) due to their own understanding, how they were first exposed to the ideas presented, and their personal physiology and health. Then, readers make changes in order to optimize their own health.
I don't see that there is that much dogma in the Paleo movement. People are free to pick and choose their own patterns. What was presented on the Oz program is a great step forward for many Americans who eat a variety of packaged and fast foods, and who may not have put a lot of thought into what is going into their body. For those of us more further educated in all of these health mysteries, we may look at the Oz program and think that the information presented is not full or complete, or that it may not present the most accurate information. How can it, in a 30 minute format? I mean, really!
Melissa M at HuntGatherLove has a lovely recent article on her own Paleo journey and how her dietary and lifestyle adaptations changed over time in order to maximize her own health.
This is what I have done, too, having begun with a standard low carb Paleo approach, moving to a "zero" carb Paleo approach, then, as my body seemed to heal - subjective, I know - I started experimenting with other foods. These days I eat a much greater variety of foods and would classify myself as low-moderate carb and moderate fat and moderate protein. I enjoy legumes as I've mentioned, sweet potatoes, rice, meats of all kinds, coconut oil, butter, goat yogurt, goat milk kefir, lots of veggies, and a small amount of fruit. I don't think fruit is evil, but it doesn't agree with me if I eat more than a handful of berries of half of an apple a day. Everyone is different, right? And has different ancestry and background?
So, Evelyn, what do you think? I'm really curious as to what comprises your own diet. Can you share with us? I agree with you that there are no natural, whole foods that should be entirely off limits to anyone who doesn't have a sensitivity. But, what is your diet like? Since you post so many scientific studies, I wonder how this research has affected your own dietary decisions. Can you tell us your own dietary journey? It would make an excellent post.
There's a big difference between "being alive" and "living."
As far as evolution goes it can bite me. I've got maybe 20 good years left I doubt I'll be doing much evolving during that time frame.
practically live on grain dust and I haven't seen a doctor (except for a
thorn in my thumb) for 25 years."
1) To many people, it does matter. The higher the GI is, the more unstable their BG is and the worse appetite control they have. Obesity is a major problem. Also, the finer the dust is, the faster plaque forms on teeth. Tooth decay is a major problem.
2) O lucky you. N = 1. What about a dentist?
Here's an article Chris Masterjohn wrote last month about Weston Price's work
'...That whole wheat could make up a substantial proportion of such a healing
diet was consistent with Price’s clinical results, where he used rolls made from freshly ground whole wheat as part of his tooth decay reversal program, as well as his animal experiments, wherein he showed that refined but not whole wheat produced cavities in rats.'
me that readers may gravitate toward a particular person or method (for
lack of a better word) due to their own understanding,"
Yeah, also the way the guru looks. I am convinced that GoKaleo has her devoted audience of mostly overweight young moms with some post-baby weight to lose because they want to look like her, and her message of "eat more" is something they want desperately to hear. Perhaps I'm unfairly stereotyping (I don't read her anymore) but my impression of her site is, "I've gained weight and I don't know why", while she urges them to throw out their scales and eat more because that's the feminist thing to do. And anyone who disagrees with her (as I do) is a brainwashed fembot of the patriarchy.
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wholemeal flour refined goes a bit further than that, if no-one else
does it and you're saying it makes people sick because it's 'refined'.
You have to explain the astonishing health of the Hunza and other people
of northern India studied by McCarrison 100 years ago. They ate
WHOLEMEAL BREAD and were 'great bread eaters' according to Dr Wrench in
his 1938 book about McCarrison's work.
Nowadays people either say
the Hunza were never healthy, or today's wheat is different and toxic.
I have never come across a claim that McCarrison didn't exist or his
work was not sound, with the single exception of Stephan Guyenet who
told me in an email that he didn't think McCarrison's experiments were
good ones. He has never explained what he meant, and I suspect he
regrets saying it. The experiments were excellent, in my view. They
showed that rats on a Hunza diet were just as astonishingly healthy as
the Hunza were. I have extended McCarrison's work by eating a Hunza
diet exclusively for 30 years, using only food items which are
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Flour made nowadays is roller-ground and has tiny particles.
"Oh! I can eat all the ice cream I want! Lol! I AM ALIVE!"
"No. You're just getting away with a certain activity that can be reckless for others because your present health can sustain such a choice."
Sure, if a person's metabolic health or lifestyle is at such a level that they can handle calorie dense junk/crap, then good for them. However, to flaunt that about as some kind of bar to aspire towards and then passively mock those who can't or won't, is just utter nonsense. Many can do well on a lot of crap, but some of them don't want to go down that road just because they can get away with dietary exhibitionism. But o teh orthorexia!
This is where the critics of the paleo movement can be a bit off putting, because while they claim to champion the cause of whole foods without nutrient discrimination, they often march in league with these very dietary exhibitionists.
1) being able to eat anything I want (i.e. there are no banned foods) and
2) being able to eat as much as I want (in my wildest dreams!).
Some people translate 1) into 2) Aargh!
Because they can easily do 1, and get away with 2--given their specific circumstances--so it becomes a dietary exhibition of utterly gimmickry proportions.
One of my friends spent many years as a geologist in Outback Australia in the 60s and 70s. He told me the aborigines ate huge amounts of meat and damper (unleavened bread). They didn't touch fruit or vegetables.
I say this is a crock, and that Ms. Disenfranchised is selling people a line. Absent some really screwball metabolic problem that requires a real doctor's care, "I don't know how I went up to 225 pounds" is bollocks. I flirted with 140 pounds recently and I know EXACTLY how that happened! Eating! Specifically delicious, fatty foods, and lots of it. I stopped, and lost weight. Bingo.
I frankly haven't got the time or energy to expose all of this, only when I stopped being a cult member and started thinking for myself, I lost weight. Duh. I understand that GK wants people to throw away their scales - exactly what Jimmy told me to do when I was gaining weight on LC.
Same flat champagne, different bottle. Pseudo-feminist cult behavior is no better than sexist misogynist cult behavior.
ELMM works for men, too. Feminism has nothing to do with it. Every man I ever knew who lost weight and kept it off had to WORK for it.
For the record, I completely subscribe to the their that there should be no banned foods, no banned macronutrients, and people should chill the fuck out as regards how they look. I mean, I'm not the one who is always bragging about her visible abs. Cos I ain't got none and never will and don't care. Although I do make a nice bicep.
But if you want to lose weight and keep it off, you are going to have to eat less than you would like, and give up some treats. What is so terrible about that? It's called making choices, prioritizing, adapting. It's only terrible if you base your life on satisfying every appetite mindlessly, i.e., being a total baby.
To the rest of what you've said: All fine points. Nothing wrong with a personally flexible philosophy for those who don't have problems, but I'll stick with the observation that there will always be banned foods/goods/ideas/activities and reservations among people about stuff. Everyone has 'em, as I've said before. I'd rather just leave people to banning and celebrating whateverthehell it is they want to ban and celebrate in their personal lives. They're never going to absolutely chill out and everyone has their own individually tailored approach to existence and what they desire from life. We have much bigger problems in this world than food wars that haven't yielded to the power of a relaxed temperament and I doubt this'll be changing any time soon. So I sympathise with the more common sense oriented and lesser of the two neurosis--those that don't discriminate macro/micronutrients, but pick lesser rewarding foods or poor pleasure-seeking options that don't even get the job done. Meanwhile, others have more practical and pressing reasons to avoid such stimulation or even an incentive to change their definition of a pleasure food to something different--more power to them in prioritising personal pragmatism over attempting to emulate the next flashy gimmick.
Being a total baby. . . heh. Even infants don't tend to get that mindless, in my opinion.
foods/goods/ideas/activities and reservations among people about stuff.
Yes! This gives me the opportunity to clarify something. When I say that I subscribe to the theory "no banned foods" that is a general comment. Individual mileages vary. In my own case, I cannot, simply cannot, keep certain sweets in my house for longer than a day. Just can't do it. Not every kind of sugary food, but certain kinds. It doesn't really matter to me what the particular ingredient combination is - and I don't need a randomized clinically controlled study to tell me what they are. The idea that some people are really powerless to resist certain foods is simply cruel and wrong. If I say that I can't resist oatmeal raisin cookies (I can't) doesn't mean it's true for you. But I can't, and that's not brainwashing, it is fact. Similarly, my feeling that I still have a few pounds to lose before I feel completely at home in my skin isn't the patriarchy, it's me.
Very true. We are lucky to be able to choose the level of exercise we engage in. That said, a healthful amount of exercise won't use up many calories. You have to exercise restraint in eating patterns.
In any case I'm very skeptical of this "I know what the Kitavans do" business. Anthropologists are notorious for seeing what they want to see. (Kade: I am not so skeptical I don't believe they live on yams.)
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if I have something to contribute to the discussion. Usually it's a result of the passion displayed in the article I looked at. And after this article "Paleo on Oz ... Notes & Comments". I was actually moved enough to drop a comment ;) I do have a few questions for you if it's okay.
Could it be just me or does it give the impression like a few of these responses look like written by brain dead people?
:-P And, if you are posting at other online social sites, I would like
to follow you. Could you list the complete urls of your shared pages like your
linkedin profile, Facebook page or twitter feed?
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