#LCHFollies ~ Is there a place for beer, wine, spirits in the Banting lifestyle?
You're kidding, right?
What? This is a serious question? Why yes it is!
I've got some things to say -- hopefully in the next week or so -- about Tim Noakes running afoul of the Health Professions Council in his country for advocating a woman wean her child onto a LCHF diet. But I had a Twitter exchange of my own the past couple of days, in which I basically encouraged folks to hijack the #WeSupportTimNoakes hashtag. This is being started to, well, support Noakes against his percieved persecution. Said Twitter exchange took me to a podcast page with a sidebar image showing the Facebook post screenshot below, and leading me to this podcast: Alcohol and the LCHF Diet: Can you drink when Banting?
No ... not the Onion website!
[it's a mighty good thing I didn't have an adult beverage in hand when I came across this!]
Here's the deal. Tim Noakes starts out on shaky ground by calling "his" diet Banting. The low carb advocates have now also dug in their heels by insisting that it's a high fat diet, and we're talking at least 60% fat here -- most don't seem satisfied unless they are upwards of the 70% mark. This has not been a human diet consumed even by the Inuit, and even IF the Inuit diet were composed of less flesh and more fat, it would still be relatively low in saturated fat which is the kind of fat the #LCHF folks now seem to swap the H = high out for H = healthy for (and high in PUFA, especially omega 3, and HUFA = highly unsaturated fatty acids - especially compared to basically any commonly consumed domestic animal meat).
Why did Noakes decide to use Banting? I am not sure. I can only surmise that he thought it a catchy phrase as apparently there was a time when Banting was transformed into a verb meaning dieting. Here is what Noakes says about the origins of "his" diet:
So Prof. Tim Noakes' diet is predicated on a LIE. Why do I say that? Because, first, I don't believe there's any evidence that some supposed higher protein lower fat version of the diet was popularized and Banting considered it inferior. In many ways, I'm not sure who is more mischaracterized by the militant-LCHighFers: Ancel Keys or William Banting. The popularized mischaracterizing all seems to trace back to representations by one Gary Taubes.
But Noakesian Banting is predicated on a lie, because it bears only a passing resemblence to the diet Banting himself laid out in Letter on Corpulence. I discussed Banting's diet in some depth in this post: The real diet of William Banting that "cured" his obesity. You might also enjoy Leigh Peele's similar take: On William Banting’s Diet, Taubes, And Anecdotal Weight Loss. There can be no doubting that William Banting found a diet he could live with -- that included copious amounts of alcohol -- while reducing his calories. There can also be no doubt that the actual diet that Banting lost his weight on -- nevermind how it was received either publically or by the medical establishment -- bears little resemblence to Noakes' version of #LCHF. From his Letter on Corpulence:
What he ate:The items from which I was advised to abstain as much as possible were: Bread, butter, milk, sugar, beer, and potatoes, which had been the main (and, I thought, innocent) elements of my existence, or at all events they had for many years been adopted freely.
For breakfast, at 9.0 A.M., I take five to six ounces of either beef mutton, kidneys, broiled fish, bacon, or cold meat of any kind except pork or veal; a large cup of tea or coffee (without milk or sugar), a little biscuit, or one ounce of dry toast; making together six ounces solid, nine liquid.For dinner, at 2.0 P.M., Five or six ounces of any fish except salmon, herrings, or eels, any meat except pork or veal, any vegetable except potato, parsnip, beetroot, turnip, or carrot, one ounce of dry toast, fruit out of a pudding not sweetened, any kind of poultry or game, and two or three glasses of good claret, sherry, or Madeira— Champagne, port, and beer forbidden; making together ten to twelve ounces solid, and ten liquid.
For tea, at 6.0 P.M., Two or three ounces of cooked fruit, a rusk or two [bread], and a cup of tea without milk or sugar; making two to four ounces solid, nine liquid.
For supper, at 9.0 P.M. Three or four ounces of meat or fish, similar to dinner, with a glass or two of claret or sherry and water; making four ounces solid and seven liquid.
For nightcap, if required, A tumbler of grog—(gin, whisky, or brandy, without sugar)—or a glass or two of claret or sherry.
I have highlighted the foods disallowed on Noakes' plan in bold, the items allowed and/or encouraged on his plan but avoided by Banting in bold-blue, and the alcohol in bold red.
The above is the total nutrition on a particularly full day ... that is, if he drank all his stated alcohol. (Leigh's numbers were comparable though she counted less alcohol and half the bread bringing his calories down into Minnesota Starvation range of ~1600.)
There were specific PROHIBITIONS on fatty meats and seafood. Salmon? Not on Banting's menu. Nor pork for its "fattening nature". Banting -- himself -- added: "I can now also state that eggs, if not hard boiled, are unexceptionable, that cheese, if sparingly used, and plain boiled rice seem harmless." And of course, NO BUTTER.
I'll leave you with this, from a January 2015 interview
So ... Is there a place for beer, wine, spirits and that sort of thing in the Banting lifestyle?
Answer: Yes! On a genuine Banting diet, you can enjoy several glasses of wine or booze a day, just lay off the beer and Bullpoopful coffee.
Dr Wilhelm Ebstein (1836-1912); the Father of LCHF, on Gout, 1884
Also - when Tim Noakes goes off Metformin maybe I'll believe him
Sounds pretty cut and dried to me. The diet Banting followed.
Joseph Kraft: Why hyperinsulinemia matters
This is NOTHING new. MDA exists to sell books and supplements, and now useless PBP Certs and whatever else he can dream up. He actually makes no bones about it, and will tell you that flat out. He did with me.
Naughton should be fun to watch for the next couple of years. The 2015 Disc Golf Showdown at the Farm ought to be interesting.
"Here we show that one endotoxin-producing bacterium isolated from a morbidly obese human’s gut induced obesity and insulin resistance in germfree mice. The endotoxin-producing Enterobacter decreased in relative abundance from 35% of the volunteer’s gut bacteria to non-detectable, during which time the volunteer lost 51.4 kg of 174.8 kg initial weight and recovered from hyperglycemia and hypertension after 23 weeks on a diet of
whole grains, traditional Chinese medicinal foods and prebiotics. ..."
Oh no, not whole grains!
Congrats on your maintained weight loss by the way!
Thanks to JM, it's not 'low carb' any longer; it's high fat eating. Few are losing weight because of the calories involved with these fat-laden meals--and their solution is to just add more fat!
These people are morons, but Jimmy bears some responsibility for his moronic advice.
Does "Nutritional Ketosis" Require 85% Fat?
"...of course, if one eats too much fat during that low-carb diet, you're not going to lose weight; there are differences in metabolism, but calories count in the process of eating a low-carb diet."
August 25, 2012, Ask the Low Carb Experts Podcast
My 5 Low-Carb Mistakes And How Nutritional Ketosis Rescued Me From Them
October 4, 2012 • By Jimmy Moore
Low Carb and Paleo: My Thoughts Part 1
My Thoughts on Low Carb and Paleo, Part Deux
My thoughts on Low Carb and Paleo Episode 3: A New Hope
Calorie Rants and Ketosis (part 1).
Calorie Rants and Ketosis (part 2).
Carbohydrates are Good; Dogma is Evil
"I think this quote from Kurt Harris in a comment thread at FTA sums up Jimmy and his followers pretty well.
“As far as Jimmy goes, he simply can’t reassess low carb, even though he has already had countless guests explain to him that the CIH is wrong and why. Jimmy is basically boxed in at this point.
I used to think he was just a friendly, neutral “journalist”. He is not. He is a creationist agenda pusher who earns his living based on people buying low carb dogma and he will avoid admitting he is addicted to food as medication until it does him in.”
Jimmy Moore Shows You How To Do Nutritional Ketosis.
My Severe Hyperinsulinemia Has Mandated I Go On A High-Fat, Low-Carb 'Eggfest'
“Could Your Diet Actually Be Fat-Deficient?” by Jimmy Moore
30 Bananas a day Durianrider, an analysis of his ‘paleo’ vegan diet
Harley Johnstone AKA Durianrider. A nutritional analysis of his low fat raw vegan diet
So you've got a carb tolerance level and a protein threshold level. Incidentally, my carb tolerance is right at 30 grams. I can eat about 30 grams of carbs, total carbs. I don't count the net carbs. That's a scam. Please run far away from the net carbs and -- what were they called? "Effective carb." I've heard all kinds of marketing terms, but total carbohydrates is what I'm talking about here. So 30 grams of that, about 80 to 100 grams of protein -- it depends on -- if I'm exercising that day, I'll probably do a little more protein, but for the most part between 80 to 100 grams.
Then the third leg in that stool is dietary fat, and this is the one that freaks people out. They're like, "What do you mean I eat more fat? Doesn't that clog your arteries and lead to heart disease or raise your cholesterol?" So we address that in my last book "Cholesterol Clarity" so please go check out that book if you're concerned about that, but once you understand and have a purpose in mind that you want to get into ketosis, you probably have to start eating more fat than you ever have thought about in your life.
For me personally, it's probably, Christopher, about 80% to 85% of my nutritional intake is from dietary fat, and when I say fat, I'm not talking about vegetable oils. I'm talking about real, food-based saturated -- which is like coconut oil, butter, full-fat meats and cheeses, cream, those kinds of things, and then monounsaturated fats, things like avocados, avocado oil, macadamia nut oil, olive oil, those kinds of things. So that's what it takes to get into ketosis and when you do that, you will shift from being that sugar burner into a state of ketosis which makes you a fat-burning machine.
Ilona Kasza And David Pickholtz On Dr. Oz’ 500-Calorie Fast Food Meals Menu
500-Calorie Fast-Food Meals
Dr Oz - You know that if I had my way, we’d all be eating fresh, wholesome vegetables, fruits and whole grains at every meal.
Long-Term Stalls & Weight Gain Even On A Well-Formulated Low-Carb Diet | Dr. Stephen Phinney
21 life lessons from livin' la vida low-carb
Ask The Low-Carb Experts (Episode 5): ‘Ketosis: Devil Or Angel?’ | Mark Sisson
OMG Rad, that's hilarious!!
Somebody needs to teach Jimmy the difference between vegetable, animal, and mineral. Last I heard, coconuts, avocados, macademia nuts, and olives were "vegetable".
Cue the Gilbert and Sullivan music.
Interesting that when I proposed the Newcastle protocol to Christine, she could only think of how miserable she was on the 1000 cal/day fat fast. I didn't even catch it when she wrote that.
Listen to her podcast. She's really upset, frantic and is getting stressed out. That PaleoFx speech was an enormous undertaking. We're seeing the beginning of the Low-carb / Paleo Crack Up. But even Paleo won't survive after the separation. If you missed the PaleoFx, listen to her podcast.
The trend is to see how close to 0g you can get and it's worn as a badge of honor. The gender composition of these groups is 99.999% female. Some of the weight loss transformations within these groups are quite impressive, which is probably going to be the difficult thing to overcome regarding the health impacts of the diet. Many also claim they have more energy and their health has improved overall from following a ketogenic diet and there's no convincing them otherwise. It's sort of Atkins on a cocktail of crack and steroids.
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